whats the diff in paints? 2pac, solid, matellic, acrylic [Archive]

ChrisS

19-05-02, 01:38 AM

Lets see....

2pac is a better paint because it is I spose you can say tougher,so it won't chip or fade as easy as acrylic.
But its alot harder to paint because it sets alot slower then acrylic so its easyer to get runs.
I WOULDENT spray it anywhere else but a spray both because it can act like a magnet,meaning everything like dust,bugs and dirt seems to get on it very quik.
To spray it you need to use a gravity gun.
Its also VERY bad for your health so if you are to do it yourself make sure you have a mask.

Acrylic is very easy to paint as long as you have a fair idea on what your doing.
It dry's fairly quik which is a good think,stops runs and shit getting on it.
But its a weaker paint so stone chips and cutting it back to much could stuff the whole job up.

Matellic can be done in 2pac or Acrylic but can also be tricky.
You have to make sure you get the metel flacks even or you will get lines (build up of matallic lines).
To stop this you do even partly over laping side to side coats like normal but then you criss cross to even it out.

I just resprayed my VN in dark blue matallic in acrylic and it turn out shit because I sprayed it to dry (had to much air,not enought paint coming out of the gun) which caused it to oringe peel very bad and stuffed the whole job.
But you live and leurn.

A few hints if you are going to atemped it your self...
Make sure you take extra time to prap the car right,dont rush the coats,DONT use 2pac and make sure your compresser is running a water reg (im sure its called something else but I cant remember what but it catch's the water b4 it go's into your paint) and set your reg at 35psi.

If you have any more Q's just ask:)

C0V3R

19-05-02, 01:57 AM

OK Time to clear up some confusion. Firstly, the types of paint generally available are:

-Acrylic
-2 Pack
-Enamel
-Base coat/Clear coat systems (refered to as BC/CC)

Types of colours include:

-Solid - eg most red cars, no transparency in the paint, no metallic flecks
-Metallic - generally somewhat transparent containing metallic flecs in one or more colours
-Clear coat - avaiable in most paint types, optionally used over the top of a solid or metallic finish (ie you dont have to use a clear coat), except if using BC/CC in which case a clear coat *must* be applied in order to obtain any shine.
- Candy - special transparent layers applied over a solid or metallic layer, underneath a clear coat. Provides greater colour shift, and can add a candy apple type effect depending on how its used (ie what colour candy is used relative to the main paint colour)
- Flake - larger versions of metallic fleck, used mostly on hotrod/special show type paint jobs to accentuate the fact that its a very metallic coat - its generally used in conjuction with or as a replacement for metallic paint. It is often used with candy coats.
- Pearl - mixed into final coats of clear coat to create an effect similar to a pearl. Different colours of pearl may be used with any/all of the above effects depending on the desired result.

Anyway, to a degree 2 pac is overrated. Yes it produces a very good finish if applied by a professional sparypainter in a spraybooth with a baking oven, but for any kind of home job it is not the ideal solution. Also, chipping in 2pac paint is *very* difficult to fix when compared with most other types. This is due to the paint setting because of a hardener (ie you have 2 parts, one part paint, one part hardener which are mixed just prior to application), rather than evaporation of thinners.

Acrylic can produce an excellent finish, and is used often by professional spraypainters when respraying whole cars. It is easy to sand between layers if there are imperfections, and is relatively easy to repair. It is considerably less expensive than 2pac finishes and easier to apply, as it doesnt require as high quality equipment (this is why it is often used by amateurs). If the final coat is not smooth, it can be wet sanded prior to polishing/buffing and can still provide excellent results despite inexpert application. In acrylic paints, solid, metallic and clear paints all provide a high gloss finish, thus clear coats are optional. For most metallic paints you are looking at around $130-140 for 4 litres. Clear coat is around $60 for 4L. Solids are a little less expensive than metallics. The cost is somewhat dependant on the paint consituents (ie what colours are used to make your paint mix). My preference is to put a few clear coats over the final colour coats as it prevents any over buffing that may occur by crappy detailing shops if you are unlucky.

If you can afford it, I would reccommend a gravity fed spraygun of recent manufacture (in the last 5-10 years). A new Star (1.8-2.0mm nozzle, 2 is good for being able to do primer and all other coats, 1.8 is better if you have a seperate primer gun(eg your normal gun would probably be fine) I used a 2.0 for the whole car) gravity fed gun is around $160 and IME a very good gun for the money.

Remeber also, if you use acrylic you should get thinners suited to the temperature in which you will be applying the paint - ask the paint shop staff.

For a car that size, you would probably be looking at 4-6L of metallic, 4L primer, and 4L clear coat along with a 20L (~$5-60)drum of thinners. I would reccommend (if you arent already) taking the car back to metal to avoid any future problems with rust.

Winter is not the best time to be spraying, but if you do spray, choose the warmest possible (~20-25 degrees) days with low humidity.

If you want to ask any more questions feel free.

C0V3R

19-05-02, 02:13 AM

Originally posted by BLO-49L

Acrylic is very easy to paint as long as you have a fair idea on what your doing.
It dry's fairly quik which is a good think,stops runs and shit getting on it.
But its a weaker paint so stone chips and cutting it back to much could stuff the whole job up.

If you apply a reasonable number of coats there should be no issues with cutting it back alot. eg 7 or more colour, plus about 3 -5 clear. I personally did about 15 colour, with intermediate clears (about 4) and 3 final clears.It is softer, but this means its also easier to fix up if it gets light scratching compared to 2pac.

Ideally, you should put on about 4 coats, and then let the paint sit for 1 week (to let the thinners escape fully), then apply the next for and so on. This increases the hardness of the paint significantly and can help the finish quite abit. The paint should be left to sit for 1 week - 1 month after final coats before any buffing is done.

Matellic can be done in 2pac or Acrylic but can also be tricky.
You have to make sure you get the metel flacks even or you will get lines (build up of matallic lines).
To stop this you do even partly over laping side to side coats like normal but then you criss cross to even it out.

This is only really a problem if you are doing very few coats. But the techniques describes will solve the problems. Overlapping is the most important, and spraying at 45 or 90 deg to the previous layers can help alot too

I just resprayed my VN in dark blue matallic in acrylic and it turn out shit because I sprayed it to dry (had to much air,not enought paint coming out of the gun) which caused it to oringe peel very bad and stuffed the whole job.

How did you cut it back? I reccommend sanding the final coats with no coarser than 1000, followed by 1200, 1500 and then 2000 grit. Polishing with a sponge buffing pad, and using a mequires compound (very high quality stuff), or something from a paint shop. You should be able to sand out any orange peel if you applied enough paint, without going through the clears. This illustrates the importance of sanding between coats (ie after being left for 1 week, you should sand out any orange peel with 800 grit before commencing spraying)

A few hints if you are going to atemped it your self...
Make sure you take extra time to prap the car right,dont rush the coats,DONT use 2pac and make sure your compresser is running a water reg (im sure its called something else but I cant remember what but it catch's the water b4 it go's into your paint) and set your reg at 35psi.

Its a water filter. I ran 2, 1 at the compressor, and 1 just before the spray gun at the end of a 20m hose (the long hose gives the charge time to cool down and combined with the second water catcher, prevents any water condensing in the spraygun nozzle and ending up mixed with paint (youll end up with what look like pimples in the paint if this happens. When its dry youll be able to pop them and water will come out.)
I used around 30psi, but 35 should be fine. The pressure you use is dependant on the gun, and what stage you are spraying (ie the paint atomises differently depending on the mix with thinners etc)

ChrisS

19-05-02, 12:20 PM

Man where were you 2 weeks ago...lol
With my finished it dosent seem to want to shine.
I dont about 4 coats of primer/filler,followed by 3/4 coats of colour (4 coats on bonnet,boot and roof) mixing it 40/60.
( i almost used 4ltrs of colour)
And 3 coats of clear.(I was told if I dont to many coats it will turn yellow after a few years)
But I also started cutting it back with 1200 useing soapy water the day after the clear was done.
Some of the finish still fills rough so should I try cutting it back more?
The reason why I stoped cutting it back was I started seeing abit of blue on the sand paper and figered I was cutting through the clear.
It was been buffed 3 times...
1st time I did it in the sun (Me stuped i know..lol) and dident water down the buffing compand.
But after being told to do so I did.
2nd time I gave the finish another cut back with 1200 again to try and get it smoother and buffed each panel twice to try and get a shine out of it.
Then used Meguiar's clear coat to get the swell marks out and it made it shine a littlemore but not as much as it should.
I gave it another polish the other day and dident seem to do alot.:(
As I said it dosent fill as smooth as it should so do you think I shout try buffing it again?
Or giveing it anouther cut back with 1500 or maybe 2000 wet and dry?
Or is it a lost corse?
Are you a spray painter?if so where at?

7HEAVN

19-05-02, 02:00 PM

Ok I might be repeating most of what was said above but here goes anyway.

2pac: basically a two part paint consisting of the paint itself and a hardner (catylist) . 2pac dries by chemical reaction.

acrylic: This paint only needs to be thinned down using reducer( thinners) and then can be applied but it dries out by evaporation.

metallic: A finish that consists of lots of differen't metallic particles that give the paint a sparkly effect . When spraying a mettalic colour clear must be put over the top of it to give shine and to seal it off (COB clear over base) .

Solid: Solid colours are such as your red's ,white, oragne etc these colour give coverage and shine by themselves and don't need to be cleared.

Most of the workshops use 2 pac becuase it's alot quicker there is no buffing involved(other then de-nibbing cutting the shit out) and has shine off the gun .

I STRONGLY DON"T recommend spraying 2pac in your back yard is is very dangerous stuff and unless you are hooked up to a dedicated fresh air supply, there is no mask on the market that will totally filter out all of the ico -cyernate in 2pac paint . IT can caus deseases such as cancer , all types of skin deseases respitory problems etc etc.

If I were you I would spray it in acrylic apply your base gold colour down then clear over the top say a good 4-5 coats . Another little tip with acrylic is the longer you let it sit before cutting back and buffing the more shine you will get in the end . I t would take probably a good 3-4 weeks for all of the solvents to evaporate completely . Use a wollen (spelling) buff pad and use a good brand of cutting compound such as freckler G3. I recommend when cutting back try not to go coarser then 1500 wet and use soapy water. If there's anything else you want to know just ask .

OVL087

19-05-02, 03:31 PM

cov3r
you said a gravity gun is around $180 ish. thats for the basic cheapies yes?
we just got a newie at work set s back close to $1000. very nice. also all you ppl who say that 2 pac is bad for your health etc have you ever used 3 pack. **** its gotta be the worst smellin etc shit around. mind you i spray furniture not cars so most of you probably havent used it. cheers anyway.

ChrisS

19-05-02, 05:15 PM

Never heard of 3pak...
But I do enjoy a 6 pack;):D..lol

C0V3R

19-05-02, 07:52 PM

Originally posted by BLO-49L
Man where were you 2 weeks ago...lol
...
But I also started cutting it back with 1200 useing soapy water the day after the clear was done.
Some of the finish still fills rough so should I try cutting it back more?
The reason why I stoped cutting it back was I started seeing abit of blue on the sand paper and figered I was cutting through the clear.
It was been buffed 3 times...
1st time I did it in the sun

OK, you may still be able to fix up your paint. But the first thing you should do is stop using 1200 and go up a few grades. What does the finish look like?
Is there visible scratching after you polish(ie its not too difficult to see the scratches)? - if there is, you should go 2000, or 1500 then 2000. You should make extremely sure there is *no* grit of any sort (dust etc) on the paint when you are sanding, as you can put scratches in the paint if there is any dirt etc. After you think you are done sanding, towel off the panel, removing all dust etc, and see if you can still see scratches. When you are finished with 2000 grit you shouldnt be able to see any real scratches and the paint should look kinda shiny.

Is there any orange peel effect happening? (ie parts of the paint are lower than the rest, like pores on an orange) If so you need to sand the area that has orange peel till there isnt any with 1200, then follow the above instructions.

Its kinda hard to tell where its at, but if you can describe what the surface is like after polishin I should be able to help. You shouldnt really bother buffing until you have done the 2000 grit properly. On average, for me to be happy it takes 0.75-1.5 hours per panel of sanding and more if its big like a bonet etc. Approximately 1/3 the time is 2000 grit, as its not worth the effort to polish it if you dont get out the 1200 grit scratching.

If I were you, Id be tempted to put on a couple more clear coats if you find that you cant get rid of the scratching via 1500/2000/polishing. Given that you are already thru the clear in parts, Id skip to 2000 grit. I normally dont use 1500 at all anyway.

I'm not actually a panel beater, but I taught myself to spray on a crappy old car, and I've done a couple since then, and Im at a similar stage to you (1/2 the car is polished and is waiting reassembly) after a bare metal respray and resto on my car. I should be able to post pics soon ;).

OVL087 - The gun is a rip off of a DeVillebliss gun, the parts are (almost?) interchangable I'm told, and the design is so close its bordering on a lawsuit ;). Its a very nice gun for the money, and it wont be the limiting factor if you are using acrylic at home anyway. I have no idea how good it would be for 2pac etc.

I havent heard of 3pac either ;)

sssgtr

19-05-02, 08:08 PM

At the end of the year i'll be respraying my U12 in the same factory black (yes i know it's a c$nt of a color to spray right!!!) acrylic, so after leaving the panel for a few weeks to let the thinners evaporate, what do you re-prep the panel with to clean it? (can't leave it off the road for more than 2 days....) Just thinners, or soapy water? :confused:

bollie7

19-05-02, 08:24 PM

Ok boys, any ideas on this one.
I've just sprayed my car in a solid colour (bright yellow Acylic). New suction gun (Star) all the gear on the air system (reg, water trap)
I even built a temp booth in the shed for the final coats using new clear plastic sheeting.

Colour went on with no probs but when I put the clear on I got a lot of little black marks in and under the clear. Got a pretty good finish straight off the gun with hardly any orange peel etc. Just these black marks.
I wetted the floor down before I sprayed, the temp was good, I had new white disposable overalls on, head covered etc. Panels all tack ragged with lint fee cloths just before spraying.

Didn't appear to be any dust floating around in the booth.
Most of the marks appear to be on top of the colour, under the clear. I have had to rub right through the clear to get them off.
The gun was super clean as was the thinners and the clear.

The only thing I can think of is there must be a bit of dust floating aound which has been blown onto the panel with the clear. Can't see it with the colour because it covers it.

Its got to the point where I have given up on the clear.
Any thoughts

thanks
Peter Marr

C0V3R

19-05-02, 08:28 PM

Originally posted by sssgtr
At the end of the year i'll be respraying my U12 in the same factory black (yes i know it's a c$nt of a color to spray right!!!) acrylic, so after leaving the panel for a few weeks to let the thinners evaporate, what do you re-prep the panel with to clean it? (can't leave it off the road for more than 2 days....) Just thinners, or soapy water? :confused:

To clean it before doing what? Before spraying? You should wash the car fully, dry it, sand it, then use prepsol or a wax and grease remover twice before painting.

Before wetsanding anr or polishing? Just water and a soft rag should do and car washing liquid if you feel like it.

C0V3R

19-05-02, 08:36 PM

Originally posted by bollie7
Ok boys, any ideas on this one.
I've just sprayed my car in a solid colour (bright yellow Acylic). New suction gun (Star) all the gear on the air system (reg, water trap)
I even built a temp booth in the shed for the final coats using new clear plastic sheeting.

Colour went on with no probs but when I put the clear on I got a lot of little black marks in and under the clear. Got a pretty good finish straight off the gun with hardly any orange peel etc. Just these black marks.
I wetted the floor down before I sprayed, the temp was good, I had new white disposable overalls on, head covered etc. Panels all tack ragged with lint fee cloths just before spraying.

Didn't appear to be any dust floating around in the booth.
Most of the marks appear to be on top of the colour, under the clear. I have had to rub right through the clear to get them off.
The gun was super clean as was the thinners and the clear.

The only thing I can think of is there must be a bit of dust floating aound which has been blown onto the panel with the clear. Can't see it with the colour because it covers it.

Its got to the point where I have given up on the clear.
Any thoughts

thanks
Peter Marr

Nice to see you like the Star guns too!

Couldnt tell you for sure without seeing it, but it could be dust like you said. How dense are the dots per panel (like 3 or 4 per panel, or 100+ or?) and how big are the dots? Did you at any time use black for guide coats with this gun?

If you did, *completely* disassemble and clean the gun and components with a small paintbrush/whatever, let all the bits you can (including the gun body) (as per instruction manual) sit in thinners for a day or 2, then spray a 1/4 a cup of thinners, then 1/4 cup of the clear mix, then 1/4 cup of thinners into the air or onto a test surface (ie not the car!). I had a similar problem, the gun looked extremely clean, but it managed to spray some primer bits from who knows where with the colour (which hadnt been used in weeks) in what was to be a final colour coat. Fortunately I noticed early and only had to sand off 1/2 a coat on one panel. This happened after I had done 6 coats of yellow, and some grey primer came out (this is not the car I am finishing up ;).

HTH.

7HEAVN

19-05-02, 08:45 PM

did you make sure to strain your clear before putting it into the gun?. Why are you applying clear over yellow??? is it a metalic yellow or a pearl yellow or something?. Did you tag rag the whole job after you based it up before putting on the clear coats?.

bob shovel

19-05-02, 09:36 PM

with metallic paint with the flecs can you add totally different colours to the base colour?? does it look any good?
im thinkin of doinng something a bit differnt. cream with maybe yellow

LJ03L

19-05-02, 10:12 PM

Back to the thrad topic, if you have the whole diff out, why not get it powder coated?

C0V3R

19-05-02, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by 7HEAVN
did you make sure to strain your clear before putting it into the gun?. Why are you applying clear over yellow??? is it a metalic yellow or a pearl yellow or something?. Did you tag rag the whole job after you based it up before putting on the clear coats?.

Clear can add a bit of gloss sometimes to bright colours, and ensures you wont buff through to metal without noticing how much paint you are going thru.

hcca

20-05-02, 12:37 PM

BLO-49L:

It sounds like you have a similar problem to what I had, although I suspect mine was worse. Shocking orange peel of the clear coat.

Anyway, it CAN be fixed but it sucks. Rub back with wet and dry (800 for really bad stuff, then 1200). When it's wet, it should start to look really nice and shiny as it get smoother. I found however that when it dried, you could still see pits in some areas. So, dry it off, and look for pits and then do the sanding thing again. Be careful if you start seeing colour on the sandpaper as you'll rip through the paint in seconds if you get to this stage. Repeat until the whole panel is free from pits when it's dry. It will look pretty crap now, but at least it's smooth.

Now get some rubbing compound and rub it all over the panel. It should shine up ok at this stage. I found that this actually gives a pretty good finish by itself.

I then finished with meguiers paint cleaner, 2 applications of polish and then wax. Looks bloody good when it's done, but to give you an idea, it took about 8-10 hours just to do my bonnet :) I sprayed the car about 3 years ago and i've only done the bonnet and one of the guards because I hate doing it so much :)

bollie7

20-05-02, 01:10 PM

7HEAVN
Yes I did strain the paint and I was using clear for the reasons C0V3R said.

C0V3R
The gun was new, only had yellow and clear through it.
The marks range in size from a pinpoint up to about .5mm. Not a lot, maybe 1/2 doz per panel, completly random except more on the horizontal surfaces than the vertical ones. Not a big prob but they stand like dog nuts when you have a close look.
I'n not too worried about it now. Have cut them out and put a couple more colour coats on. Just curious as to what caused it.
Thanks for your thoughts on this.
regards
Peter Marr

OVL087

20-05-02, 04:43 PM

bollie7
as stated b4 did you strain the clear beforehand , sounds like there may have been some crap in there. did you spray whilst the floor was watered down , if not you may have picked up something whilst coating.
cov3r - yeah we have just got a new kremlin gun at work , pissed our old devilbiss gun off.

OVL087

20-05-02, 04:45 PM

if it were the more horizontal sufraces its likely that it was just shit fallen down from top of booth. did you have anykind of suction/filters at the bottom of ur shed that would pull dust down.

macca002

20-05-02, 07:20 PM

I recently painted my ute blue, It turned out really good.
I used an acrylic paint cause it was my first attempt, but have learnt heaps from the experience.

-Firstly invest in an anti-static rag, use it to wipe the surface just b4 spraying to remove any fine dust particles.

-Also try not to rent a compressor and gun (BIG MISTAKE) I rented a gun and had HEAPS of problems with an uneven spray and water dropping onto the car from the gun. In the end I just ended up buying a gun for around 30 bucks, was worth every cent!

-When spraying the bonnet, make sure you do many coats, as this area is affected most by stone chips, and every extra coat helps. Also spray extra around the window if you are inclinned to hang your arm out the side, otherwise this will fade quicker.

-I have also found that the armourall black bottle(protectant) restores any parts of the paint which may not looks too good, but unfortunately it commes off in the rain.

-Dont attempt to cut and polish your car as it may cause white faded areas to appear, I dont know why this happenes, but it did to my car and soon enough my bonnet needed a respray.

Anyways, after the whole experience I vowed never to spray a car again, since all the prep was done by hand, none of this electrical stuff, but I am once again doing all this work on a mates datto, so I guess that once you tell someone that you have done it, they always seem to want you to do theirs.

Anywho, have fun with your car
Cheers

LJ03L

20-05-02, 08:55 PM

I just re-read the topic, how funny was my other post lol diff diff ehehe

bob shovel

20-05-02, 10:10 PM

yeah good post thanks mate;)
just push me aside. (thats what you were doing right??)

C0V3R

20-05-02, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by bob shovel
with metallic paint with the flecs can you add totally different colours to the base colour?? does it look any good?
im thinkin of doinng something a bit differnt. cream with maybe yellow

You could I guess. Dont know how it would look. You could always experiment on a spare panel. I wouldnt want to have to try and match the colour for any future repairs however. Often you will see people using different coloured pearls or candies that can be quite different from the base colour (eg purple pearl on a silver car or something).

ChrisS

20-05-02, 11:34 PM

COV3R-The finish on my car wont shine,it isent smooth and the colour looks a little lighter then it should.
The more I think about it the more im sure I stuffed up by cutting it back to soon after doing gthe clear.
I was thinking about pulling the whole car apart again and putting 2-3 more coats of clear.
Do you think its alright to do it or is it to late?
Because as i said b4 when I was rubbing it back with 1200 I started to see blue on the paper.
Or should I try cutting each panel back with 1500 and then 2000 to see how it go's?
Someone told me to get a rubber sqeggy (spelling?) and when I rub it back use it to see if its smooth or not.
Another problum I got is I get milky shit on some parts.
This came up after cutting it back,buffing got some of it out but polishing it gets most of it out BUT when it gets wet or rains it comes back:(

tandy ass

21-05-02, 08:24 AM

One problem I had while respraying my car was when I used the tack rag, it made the orange peel 100 times worse, on the first coat it simply looked like the paint did not want to stick to the primer/putty, it was all balling up and containing itself into ripples like you see in sand at the beach. If I didnt use the tack rag, I simply blew air over the panel after the wax/grease remover evaporated and then sprayed and then the finish was OK

The biggest problem I had was when I sanded a panel after about 6 coats of acrylic color, to remove any minor orange peel effect, after the surface coat was removed, the paint I sprayed on earlier was actually a different color! It is a burgundy color but it changed from a sort of cloudy top layer to a darker lower color, unfortunately I dont have any photo's of it since I've resprayed the car in lovely undercoat grey to get rid of the imperfections but I cant figure out what caused this. I allowed the paint to dry about 30 mins between coats, the ambient temp was about 25 degrees. I sanded it about a week after painting it.

I did a bare metal respray because it did have minor patches of rust where there were stone chips that went back to metal, I wanted to get rid of them all and straighten the panels out as well so I thought that would be the best way...

Another trick I was told was to mount a part of your hose up high, I have a 30m hose and I lifted a section about 10 meters above the ground (go to the other side of your house, tie some string to a tennis ball and throw the tennis ball over the roof - tie the tennis ball to the air hose and now you can pull it high :) ) This helped prevent a fair bit of water getting into the paint...

I used 60psi to spray but adjusted it on the gun. I have a suction feed 2mm Star gun, what are the benefits of suction/gravity feed?

Cheers!

ChrisS

21-05-02, 09:49 AM

Something else I noticed was after I put the colour on I rubed my hand on the paint and it was dusty,like after rubbing my hand on it I had blue on it.

10sec rx7

21-05-02, 02:09 PM

If it was dusty the paint has gone on to dry, eg too much air not enough paint, lower the air pressure and wind the knob out to get more paint up through the gun.

I have painted lots of model boats with Clear over base its by far the eaisest, spray on the base coat then 2k clear, no buffing and instant shine off the gun, i use a 1.4mm nossle and it flattens out nicely!!

OVL087

21-05-02, 04:22 PM

bozz - you said that you had a greater looking orange peel effect. thats coz it wasnt sanded well enough. think of orange peel as a golf ball surface, its similar to being dimpled as you havent sanded it flat , when you wipe the tac rag over it the rag is only touchin/cleaning the higher point/surface of the paint, thus making a more apparent looking orange peel. i think thats how it works.
cov3r - you said you hadnt heard of 3 pac. its mainly used in the wood industry (me - furniture polisher). it contains 1st part is the product , 2nd is the hardener and the 3rd part is an accelerator , plus some thinners aswell. its bloody expensive and bloody smelly too and very very sticky. anyway
blo49l - you sia dit was very dusty, yes it was either to dry comin out of gun or you have far too much overspray going everywhere

tandy ass

21-05-02, 06:41 PM

Thanks for the reply OVL, that makes sense, but, thats not the case with me, the panels were in primer/putty, perfectly flat right after I straightened them out and sanded them. It was a new tack rag from a paint supplies place... Everything I have done regarding the painting on this car has made no sense whatsoever.

If I painted an area that I did not use the tack rag on, the first coat of paint adhered perfectly without a sign of orange peel...

OVL087

21-05-02, 06:46 PM

a lot of those tac rags are a beeswax and white spirits or thinners combo on the rag. sometimes if you rub it instead of lightly wiping it then you can get a film of the wax on there. this could upset paint application. hope it all turns out well for ya anyway

7HEAVN

21-05-02, 08:00 PM

Yeh that is true don't press to hard doesn't happen with some tag rags but happens alot with other brands (I've had a few bad experiences with tag rags at work really pisses you off specially on silvers).

C0V3R

21-05-02, 08:56 PM

Originally posted by BLO-49L
COV3R-The finish on my car wont shine,it isent smooth and the colour looks a little lighter then it should.
The more I think about it the more im sure I stuffed up by cutting it back to soon after doing gthe clear.
I was thinking about pulling the whole car apart again and putting 2-3 more coats of clear.
Do you think its alright to do it or is it to late?
Because as i said b4 when I was rubbing it back with 1200 I started to see blue on the paper.
Or should I try cutting each panel back with 1500 and then 2000 to see how it go's?
Someone told me to get a rubber sqeggy (spelling?) and when I rub it back use it to see if its smooth or not.
Another problum I got is I get milky shit on some parts.
This came up after cutting it back,buffing got some of it out but polishing it gets most of it out BUT when it gets wet or rains it comes back:(

Definately try cutting with 1500 then 2k. Panels dont polish very well at all with only 1200 grit. Especially after the paint has hardened. The squeegy is the same idea as me toweling back the panel every now and then to check for remaining orange peel. Hmmmmm milky stuff.... what kind of stuff? The only time I've seen milky stuff is when you use wayyy too much clear, or if you spray when its too cold. Both can be fixed by sanding back.

Sanding the clear early shouldnt have caused dramatic problems. Ive sanded some panels within hours of spraying (hot day) when I was first starting to learn (read bad overspray due to a *crap* 20 y/o gun).

Paint looking different on the car and in the tin is not unusual at all. Especially slight differences.

C0V3R

21-05-02, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by Bozz
One problem I had while respraying my car was when I used the tack rag, it made the orange peel 100 times worse, on the first coat it simply looked like the paint did not want to stick to the primer/putty, it was all balling up and containing itself into ripples like you see in sand at the beach. If I didnt use the tack rag, I simply blew air over the panel after the wax/grease remover evaporated and then sprayed and then the finish was OK

This is a major pain in the arse when it happens. Its cause by contaminants in/on the upper layer of paint. Paint doing deciding it doesnt want to adhere is second only in annoyance level to paint incompatibilities.

Originally posted by Bozz

The biggest problem I had was when I sanded a panel after about 6 coats of acrylic color, to remove any minor orange peel effect, after the surface coat was removed, the paint I sprayed on earlier was actually a different color! It is a burgundy color but it changed from a sort of cloudy top layer to a darker lower color, unfortunately I dont have any photo's of it since I've resprayed the car in lovely undercoat grey to get rid of the imperfections but I cant figure out what caused this. I allowed the paint to dry about 30 mins between coats, the ambient temp was about 25 degrees. I sanded it about a week after painting it.

I did a bare metal respray because it did have minor patches of rust where there were stone chips that went back to metal, I wanted to get rid of them all and straighten the panels out as well so I thought that would be the best wa[QUOTE]Originally posted by Bozz
[B]y...

Another trick I was told was to mount a part of your hose up high, I have a 30m hose and I lifted a section about 10 meters above the ground (go to the other side of your house, tie some string to a tennis ball and throw the tennis ball over the roof - tie the tennis ball to the air hose and now you can pull it high :) ) This helped prevent a fair bit of water getting into the paint...

This means you need a second (first??) water catcher at the end of your line. It may also mean you need to empty the bulb of your air compressor. This should be done daily for the good of the compressor and your paint ;)
The water loop does work well if you dont want to shell out $26 for an inline water catcher (IMO definately worth the $ considering the effort and potential cost savings)

Originally posted by Bozz

I used 60psi to spray but adjusted it on the gun. I have a suction feed 2mm Star gun, what are the benefits of suction/gravity feed?

Cheers!

I beieve it has a number of benefits, I may not know all of them ;) ;
- Metallic flecs are less likely to settle and not get sucked up
- You can use pretty much the whole container volume of paint (ie you arent left with any paint at the bottom)
- More reliable paint pickup (ie more reliably even - theoretically) due to gravity and suction working together to provide paint to the needle vs suction competing with gravity.

C0V3R

21-05-02, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by BLO-49L
Something else I noticed was after I put the colour on I rubed my hand on the paint and it was dusty,like after rubbing my hand on it I had blue on it.

Could be not enough thinners, or WAY too high pressure/air mix.
I like to spray with 50/50 paint thinners or more thinners and less paint.

That sounds like my first paint job, the gun was shit, too much air (couldnt adjust it no matter what), not quite enough thinners and too hot a day (~35 deg)

C0V3R

21-05-02, 09:15 PM

Originally posted by Bozz
Thanks for the reply OVL, that makes sense, but, thats not the case with me, the panels were in primer/putty, perfectly flat right after I straightened them out and sanded them. It was a new tack rag from a paint supplies place... Everything I have done regarding the painting on this car has made no sense whatsoever.

If I painted an area that I did not use the tack rag on, the first coat of paint adhered perfectly without a sign of orange peel...

Wax!!!!!! OMFG I hate that crap. It is the bane of my existance. (Read 1.5L of colour used on 1 guard due to $#&$&$*#$$@! incompatibilites cause by a tack rag - this was to get on ONE good layer on top of a few. I pressed too hard with a tack rag or something,). I had to sand those coats of 7 times, and go about 3 layers deeper (it was *supposed* to be the final colour layer).
Needless to say I dont use tack rags *at all* now. What I do, is I sand a layer, wash it with water, dry it off with a towel, let it dry in the sun, brush it off with a clean dry rag then spray. This seems to work 100% of the time IME. Prepsol on a known good rag is fine also if the panel has been sitting around and you dont sand.

C0V3R

21-05-02, 09:19 PM

Originally posted by 10sec_rx7

I have painted lots of model boats with Clear over base its by far the eaisest, spray on the base coat then 2k clear, no buffing and instant shine off the gun, i use a 1.4mm nossle and it flattens out nicely!!

One day I'll investigate 2k BC/CC systems but hopefully not for a while ;)

tandy ass

21-05-02, 09:40 PM

Hey thanks for the info, COV3R!!

I'm agreeing with you that tack rags suck ass (at least the one I tried) and I got exactly the same effect you describe in having to sand it back heaps to get the final coat right...

Just attach the blower to the air hose and blow any surface crap off the panel you're about to paint after the prepsol (wax & grease remover) treatment

The only thing I could not figure out was why the paint dried a different color underneath the top layer(s) - I mixed every paint tub perfectly at 60 thinners 40 paint and did all the layers in one day about 30 mins apart between layers... strange I guess, would only happen to me as well...

C0V3R

21-05-02, 10:07 PM

Happened to me too. Due to that contamination, I had to get an extra 4L of colour and do a couple of extra colour coats on the whole car, as the colours werent the same. Major pain in the arse. The paint shop gave me a discount at least. By that stage I was on first name basis with the shop ;).
Also, if you mix your colour in small batches simlar things can happen (different ammts of metallic flake in the mix. Metallic flakes mix more evenly in thinner solutions, but also settle quicker so ALWAYS stir well immediately before pouring the mix into the gun, and tip the gun back into the main mix if you leave it for any ammt of time and re stir) . I like to do 4L mixes (~50/50-35/75 paint-thinners depending on the feel of the mix - yes with my fingers, temps and other factors.) in the early stages s