better driver: When to Light Up

[jtir]

No, I'm not refering to the rear wheels :) - Open Road Jan/Feb 2002 article p.39

I quote the first point in the article "If your vehicle has fog lights, turn them on in fog only."

It pisses me off sideways dicks with fog lights on, especially the ones with multi-colour neon types that have them on with no freakin fog at night.

I can understand if it was raining or a long distance drive with poor visiblity/lighting conditions. But in the metropolitan error on a good night? Go eat rice, and go smoke a relay/fuse if it was a dodgy installation :)

[LJ38L]

damn right it f@&$en pisses me off when wankers drive around with there fog lights on, when there is no bloody fog. WTF is the go with that, look how mad i look when i blind the shit out of everyone else. Or even worse blue fog lights ahhrrrrrrr.

Rant off:)

[Lon]

According to the law, fog lights are yellow and driving lights are not. Trust me I have a infringement for it. But, with the the "new" national road rules, either can be used during daylight hours and therfore the cops can do didly squat. The only requirement is that they are only operational when at least the parking lights are on.

<small>I have not read the artical you guys are refering to</small>

[carlo]

I have driving lights.. I use them a bit.

Why.. because (dont bother flaming me, the cops have allready done so)

I use them at night alot because I drive along a few roads with poor lighting, every bit helps. Also my car lights go on when I start the car if i leave them on so often i dont realise they are on.

I light my lights and im not afraid to use them, I dont know why they bother people so much. (they are just clear lights, no werid colours here)

[Ben Wilson]

As a driver of a gunmetal (road coloured) car, I can tell you that lights make a huge difference even on a clear day. People just don't see you coming a lot of the time without them.

I don't use mine during a clear day, but, if there is any drop in visability, they are on.

[LJ38L]

Originally posted by carlo
I have driving lights.. I use them a bit.

I light my lights and im not afraid to use them, I dont know why they bother people so much. (they are just clear lights, no werid colours here)

they seem to be much britter than normal lights & blind some drivers at night time. I think that alot of people switch them on
( you have to turn them on yourself they dont come on automatically) so they have the big effect of "look how schick i look moite" effect, wether they be on a standard commodore or a riced car.:)

[dazsta]

if people are having trouble being seen, why not just turn on the normal low beams?

why need the foglights/lowered driving lights for?

and foglights on with only parking lights on at night is damn dangerous,
u exit a street, see the bright fog lights so close to the ground....esp if its a black car, and think....its a few hundred metres away, your about to turn.shit the car is so close all of a suddden.

the stock fog/driving lights on a wrx r useless anyway, most of them turn it on for the wank factor.

[Lon]

Originally posted by dazsta
if people are having trouble being seen...

More to do with dopey pricks that cant see you.


and foglights on with only parking lights on at night is damn dangerous...

Yes, and stupid... I was actually refering to during the day.


esp if its a black car, and think....its a few hundred metres away, your about to turn.shit the car is so close all of a suddden.

You have just proved that point that it does make you be seen.

:rolleyes:

[dazsta]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
esp if its a black car, and think....its a few hundred metres away, your about to turn.shit the car is so close all of a suddden.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



"You have just proved that point that it does make you be seen. "

I think you misunderstood me a bit, what i meant was, you take a quick look and because the only visible light from the car is so low to the ground you think that the car is very far away. But if you take a closer look you realise the car is 20 metres away with no low beams on, just fog lights. I think you should understand what i mean now. Happened to me once and scared the crap out of me. Was a black car, no street lights, as far as i could tell the car was 100 metres away, then i realise damn its so close.

[BUZ-11T]

cops are getting tight with this issue in sydney
Straight DEFECT!! even if factory!! and are on !!

[krisko]

I actually pulled mine out VP SS Commodore...Ok one was cracked and I couldn't be arsed paying $220 for a rice replacement part (RRP)...I can think of better ways to spend $220 then on RRP's.

[Kinks]

Am I correct in my deduction from this discussion that it is in fact legal to have your driving lights on in suburbia (ie oncoming cars)?

I know that Southo's are just so damn bright he turns them off unless the road ahead is clear (it just wouldn't do to blind the other driver and have them drive straight into you!).

I'm trying to work out whether I want to fit higher wattage globes in my normal headlights (say 90/100W plus relays and thick power cable) or whether I should fit driving lights. Prefer the stock appearance but driving lights would definitely give more wattage and more options. But I do prefer the stock look.... Dammit!! :) (90/100W globes may also get me pulled over... *shrug*)

[Ben Wilson]

Originally posted by dazsta
if people are having trouble being seen, why not just turn on the normal low beams?


dazsta - Pop up lights, you've gotta make some allowances for style, it looks like a frog with them up :)

http://members.winnet.com.au/~benw/kermit.jpg

[Kiahatsiu]

One night a mate and myself were crusing along in his car, in pouring rain with the fog lights (yellow ones) on. A cop pulled us over, and handed my mate a defect ($40.00) for driving with his fog lights on.

[LJ03L]

Don’t even get me started on F8(ken FOG lights..

<rant>

It is not the colour of the lens that determines if it is or isn’t a fog light. Yes some are yellow, and some are clear. It is more to do with beam pattern and wattage. Most late model cars are equipped with clear fog lights.

Driving with your fog lights on in foggy/Very adverse conditions, with your parkers on is legal, but only if it is DAYTIME. At night, you must put on your low beams as well.

Driving with your Fog lights on in any other conditions is illegal.

Many people argue that it helps them see better… well sure it does, it throws more light in front of the car. BUT it also dazzles oncoming traffic. This is mostly due to the beam pattern of fog lights, and the fact that most of them are poorly aligned, even new from the factory. Add to this the LACK of FOG, and you end up blinding the oncoming traffic.

Another thing, I don’t believe that so many people are that ignorant, that they spend so much money on a car, and don’t read the manual. It would clearly state the function of the FOG light switch. And that it should only be used in FOG/Very adverse conditions. I dunno the number of people who say to me ‘they are driving lights’. For f**k sake……below is the images that would be on the switches for front and rear FOG lights…..

http://users.bigpond.net.au/boostbros/fog.jpg

A pilot light either green or amber should also light up when the FOG light(s) are on, depending if they are rear or front.

They are NOT driving lights. Driving lights must be wired so they only come on with HIGH beam. Otherwise they have been wired illegally.

Late model cars I see regularly with FOG lights on in clear conditions:

VT/VX Commodore (SS ute/sedan Driver mostly)
Magna (this have to be some of the brightest, and most dazzling)
WRX/Liberty
Numerous imports.
European cars (BMW, AUDI….)

Then I could get started on the riceboy brigade….those bulshit lights u get from Supercheap/Autobarn……and the rear fog light on Excels…… NO I better stop.

But if u drive past me with your fog lights on in clear conditions, expect a bruising with my high beam u f**king idiots.

</rant>

[Southo]

Hey Geoff, Long time no see..

I have two sets of lights on my car

1 a pair of PIAA 140 Twin beam Driving Lights (High beam/Low beam) that are connected to my High Beam.

2 a pair of PIAA 1400 Fog lights. (small but very effective) which I have probably used maybe 10 times since they have been fitted to this car. I originally fitted them to my Pajero, along with the driving lights, when driving from Brisbane to Sydney and back which was a monthly trip for me for nearly 30 mths. The only reason they were fitted to my Skyline is becuase I was so used to having brilliant lighting - so I re-fitted them.

I don't use the fog lights - and I have never used on any of our cruises or in general driving - they are ONLY used in foggy conditions.

http://www.performanceforums.com/~southo/Silhouette6.jpg

[Kinks]

Yeah, I've been away from my lil charade for 23 days and counting now (can you tell I miss it? lol). Currently I'm in Boulder, Colorado enjoying a few days of enthusiastic snowboarding and staying with relatives I haven't seen for 6 or 7 years. Hooray for me :D

I remember your driving lights well, didn't notice the foggies but then who really cares about fog lights until there's fog eh? (and you can't drive fast in fog anyway so who cares if you're doing 40km/h or 20km/h).

Had a look for PIAA lights that claim about 100W from a 55W globe, US$70 a pair. Somehow I don't think I'm going to pay 140 bucks for a pair of light bulbs. The "effective light" thing is most probably a load of shit anyway, they just mess around with the distribution of the light. I think there would be a big push to use these amazingly efficient lights at home if in fact you could get 100W of light from a 50W globe. Imagine the energy savings! Unless of course it's all marketing BS :)

I think I'll buy some Hella stuff when I get back though. Aussie company, they make good stuff. PIAA seem overpriced IMO.

[smellytofu]

LJ03L,

I agree with everything on your list apart from the Subaru ones & Audi (the low beams are more a problem).

At the moment on the Astra, my low beams have an alright range but at the first few metres, there is a really dark patch. Fog lights solve it but I don't turn them on. Also they don't have any upward light.

If you have any upward light because you defeat its purpose by having that upward light reflecting back onto you in fog. It's suppose to light up under the fog hence its placement. Fog lights are suppose to be aimed low, have no upward light (thus no glare), have a sharp cut off (meaning it isn't suppose to have upward light) & have a wide horizontal beam.

The glare you see is bulb without the shield because the glass lense itself can't control the light unless it reflects back onto the reflector and then out the glass. Normal low beams have this shield built-in the H4 & H7 bulbs with the painted black/silver top. H3 on the other hand don't have that luxury because of the small glass area.

Anyone had problems with low beam on other cars? I encounter more mal-aligned low beams than glary "fog" lights.

[LJ38L]

well you sure as hell wouldn't want to drive past LJ03L if you have your fog lights on, when there is absolutley no fog. your going to cop a high beam flashing & arm out the window and a F@#^ing dickhead shouted at you. im in agreeane with 03L.
Last night was a classic example driving down allford's point rd *spelling* sum wanker behind me had his parkers on & his fog lights on. Mind you as well it was 8pm and getting dark.:mad:

[smellytofu]

So you're going to do give them the high beam if their low beams aren't aligned properly as well? Fair and well for one kind but why not go the whole hog and give them some high beams for mal-aligned low beams.

Btw, the front fog light indicator. It aims downwards, not upwards and HALF the distance of low beam.

A quote here.. "A good fog lamp has almost no upward light and a very sharp cutoff. (And a well-placed fog lamp is mounted low to the ground, to maximize vertical separation between the driver's eyes and the cutoff of the beam pattern, thus throwing light "under" the fog blanket from the driver's perspective.)" http://lighting.mbz.org/tech/info/lights/light_color/

[jtir]

And slightly off topic to this thread, I recommend when buying a new car - to elect the option to have Xenon/HID lights over standard driving lights. This option is mainly seen on Euro cars, but starting to appear on Jap cars too now.

They cost a crap load more, and arm and leg to have bulbs/units replaced - but defintely improve the lighting area and look cool - factory standard rice :)

[LJ03L]

originally posted by smellytofu
So you're going to do give them the high beam if their low beams aren't aligned properly as well? Fair and well for one kind but why not go the whole hog and give them some high beams for mal-aligned low beams.

Btw, the front fog light indicator. It aims downwards, not upwards and HALF the distance of low beam.

For sure, they'll cop abuse for a mal-aligned headlight or a blown headlight - on that, how many poeple dont realise one of there headlights isn't working????!!! If one of mine didn't come one when i turned it on, i'd be at the next servo replacing it.

The picture i put up shows that. Im not sure what u mean. However, i have changed it for one direct fom a Suby manual.


originally posted by smellytofu
Fog lights are suppose to be aimed low, have no upward light (thus no glare), have a sharp cut off (meaning it isn't suppose to have upward light) & have a wide horizontal beam.

Exactly.. but i continue to see that this isn't always the case.


originally posted by smellytofu
apart from the Subaru ones & Audi
I meant that i see them around with there fog lights on in clear condtions. Rather than that they are glary. Antoher to add to the list are honda CRV and the like.

[smellytofu]

The thing is that fog lights AREN'T suppose to be glary. If they are, then they are driving lights or mal-aligned.

I don't mean to support fogs in clear conditions but if they don't produce more glare than low beams (which it shouldn't by design), then I would not mind having them on.

The CRV if correctly adjusted are OK to me and they have the bulb shield in them. You see the ones that have been adjusted incorrectly.

[V8 Hilux]

i think you will find that is an ofence to have other than white light on the front of a vehicle thus making yellow fog lights illegal to begin with. if you get caught with red or blue light on the front its a defect yellow light is no diferent.

i also am pretty sure that a fog light cant be more than 55 watts output. if its a halogen light its probably more than 55 watts output.

its illegal to use fog lights if there is no fog.
your car shouldent pass rego if the lights arnt aligned so it not usually the fact that they are poorly aligned its usually that the vehicle had a load in it which raises the lights. some 4 wheel drives have in cab hight adjustable lights for this reason but know one who has them knows how to use them.

do people realise how dangerous it is to dazel another driver you shoulden be high beeming someone even is they are doing the wrong thing after all thats what the line on the edge of the road is for so that you dont have to look at the on coming light regardles if there on high or low beem or have fog lights on. you should be training your self to watch the white line on the side of the road.

dont forget to complain if there is no lineor if its dull because hey we pay rego and they should be making sure the roads are safe to drive on night and day

[smellytofu]

Yellow fogs are legal so there is no problems there and yes it's limited to 55W but you still can get large variations in lumens produced from different 55W globes.

Alignment of the headlights are "suppose" to be checked annually but I've been through at least 25 pink slip inspections (in 4 different cars) and not once have I seen the alignment checked at all. Anyhow, how are the mechanics going to find a dark wall to test it out? I've even seen people use a 20m straight within the service station yard to do their brake test.

Some people know their alignment is out and some even don't want to change it even though it's right in the oncoming cars (mainly 4WD drivers coz their headlights are at eye level to normal cars).

Once I was at the lights along Pacific Hwy in Chatswood outside the Ryda store waiting to turn right and a Prado was at the other end facing directly at me and the low beams was right in my eyes (both sides so it's nothing to do with the design of the low beams). I had flashed high beams once and the Prado driver took offence and left the car in high beam and blinding every other car going past. Some people are just ignorant of their cars.

[Southo]

In my Job I get to drive an awful lot of new cars and found the best lights were on the Lexus SC430 (HID/Xenon with auto level adjust) - and the worst by far on the Nissan S15 200SX. In my opinion these lights are outright danergous on anything other than straight flat roads.. I am sure Jolt77 will confirm this and even fitted ugly big driving lights to his S15 to compensate.

Geoff,
Yes, PIAA are very expensive lights - I paid for the Fog lights at around $400 a pair but I was lucky in that the Driving lights were a sponsorship part when I rallied my Pajero. The Driving lights are now about 8 or 9 years old, with cracked lenses, but still going strong.

Replacement lenses are $120 each.... so they can stay cracked :)

The fog lights are very small, but extremely effective - much better than the Hella comets I had and I could have shone a penlight further than my old Narva's :(

[Group3JDatsun]

My Skyline has factory fit fog lights.

I don't usually drive around with them on (I agree with the "wanker" observation), but through some poorly lit suburbs they are extremely useful due to the broad pattern of the beam. They manage to fill that gap for the first 5 or so metres and provide a good spread beyond the edges of the low beams. I figure it's a better option than going and buying 90/100 bulbs and blinding everyone all the time.


In the ACT, a low beam is determined by the pattern of the beam and the wattage, as LJ03L said. Tech standards get very cagey about what lights can be determined as "fog" lights, and every time I have chatted to them about it (which used to be pretty regularly, when I worked in automotive retail), the advice they gave was bring them in for testing (not helpful when someone's trying to buy lights). Maybe now they've come up with an approved listed or something.

[Kinks]

Southo, any suggestions for decent driving lights then, without going nuts? My cousin bought some Rallye 1000's while he was visiting, and they do make a nice difference on his truck. They seem a bit glary though. Rectangular lenses would look better than round for sure, the 1000's are too big anyway.

[jtir]

Originally posted by Southo
- and the worst by far on the Nissan S15 200SX. In my opinion these lights are outright danergous on anything other than straight flat roads..

I would have to disagree, I have a JDM S15 with Xenon/HID lights as factory standard. They have 4 levels of adjustments, I usually have them on set at 2 (setting 4 max is inbetween low and high beam)

I've never had time to check what the local 200SX lights look like though - you might be right for the Aussie delivered models.

[sssgtr]

hehehe....you all would've loved me when the dickheads who did the roadworthy put 100w globes into the 55w factory driving lights...bright as all f@#k....i put the proper globes back in though (55w). I tell you what, anyone that flashed me from a distance copped my high beams constantly, really pissed me off....
I only drive around with my driving lights on @ night cos my headlights aren't the best on low beams, what do you expect, it's a pintara....:rolleyes: :D

[Southo]

Group3JDatsun.
They don't look like factory lights on your R32. That is the first time I have seen lights like that on an R32..

Geoff.
The Hella fog lights are good value, I was just saying that i found the PIAA's to be better and a lot smaller ( unfortunately a lot more expensive too) Depending on how much you want to spend - IPF and Cibie are pretty good value for money too...
If you have the $$$ get the Hella Predators :) - it will double the value of your car :)
Have a look at what ones you like the look of and then ask to see a spec sheet or working demo to see the pattern etc.

jtir,
Yes, it is the Aussie spec models. The lights (whilst bright) do have a very distinct pattern cut off and this is very low and I found that driving along the some poorly lit roads at the posted limit was sometimes impossible when cornering or cresting hills etc as the road ahead was pitch black. raising the lights a little helps, but that starts to dazzle the oncoming cars if raised to an effective level.

[Kinks]

If you have the $$$ get the Hella Predators :) - it will double the value of your car :)

OI!!! :). But I agree, those predators are fricken amazing lights. Imagine 4 of them on a light bar on the roof.... it'd be brighter than daylight :D

Which comets did you try? The FF series look pretty shit, but some of the others seem decent.

[V8R]

Ahhhh, Geoff, i have actually seen a ute (F-100) with 6 of these sucka's mounted on it.. 4 on a lightbar and 2 on the bull bar.. damn lights would have been worth more than the truck, an it was one nice example..lit the road up like daylight, and the beam stretched forever.. only ever used the bullbar ones on the roads, for the top ones were way to high for general usage.. only time they were used was out shooting or way out west, on some nice flat, straight roads..

[Southo]

The comets I had have been superceded I think - but they were similar to the standard (non FF series)