Tyres, tyres, tyres....

[coyote]

Just thought about exploring the subject of tyre choice after recent threads on the subject. I will admit to skimping on tyres in the past and can say that I now think it's just about the best place to spend money on a car. Don't really want to compare brands or specific tyres, just the mind set about what proportion of your budget is appropriate to spend on them.

Here are just some random thoughts:

If I use PULP instead of ULP I pay about 10% more for my fuel. Say I spend $30/week on fuel for the gains involved in this, that's an extra $150/year. If I were to spend an equal extra amount on tyres over an 18 month period, that would be $225. I reckon there is probably a bigger performance benefit in the tyres than the fuel.

I could change the swaybars on my car. That would cost me about $400. That extra $100 per corner could get me some really serious rubber over what I currently have. There's no comparison as to which would make the car faster and safer so why would it take more than 2 seconds to decide where to spend that money?

I currently have 16" wheels and would love some ricey 17s. Budget $1500 for the wheels and I'm only getting something that is much heavier than the 16s and therefore detract from, rather than enhance performance. Then take into account the fact that exactly the same tyre in the larger size is $50 more expensive per corner. Say I keep the car for 3 years and decide to buy super stickly soft rubber over that time, I have an extra $700 per 12 months to spend on paying for that rubber!

We're now in the ball park of $500-600 per tyre just by spending the money where the biggest performance benefit is. Whilst I doubt that I would ever spend that much on a tyre (given my occasional lack of respect for them), it's not hard to show how spending at least 50% more than I currently do is well and truly justified.

Imagine if I had taken into account the effect that other mods have on insurance premiums? Money spent on tyres puts you way in front again!

What does everyone else think?

[rowdytoot]

Interesting premise there Coyote..

I think it counts, but only to a point, if you have a car that handles 1/2 decently stock..

I know that when my little rolla was stock suspension wise, it wasn't that good to drive then, even tho I was buying 120 buck tyres for it (185/60 14's)

When I put the sway bars on ($300 bucks), and it was a lot more fun to drive... to the point where I then invested in a set of 15's and 195/50/ Eagle f1s at $150 per corner, plus$300 for the s/h rims.. then it improved even more.

I never drove it with the 15s and stock suspension, but I have to say it would probably be worse with the bigger stickier tyres, with stock suspension.. it would have had more outright grip, but not the balance, and lack of roll to take advantage of it.

So good tyres are worth it, if the car is handling well IMO

Then you will make a good improvement for not much outlay, but on a stock shopping trolley with 1/2 decent tyres, you're probably better off spending the monet on suspension work 1st.


Cheers

RT

[demuire]

Hmm, some interesting points there coyote...

This is what I think (which unfortunately does not always work with what I do):

I think tyres are not something to skimp on. They are, after all, the only link between the car and the road. Crap tyres don't only mean you can't corner (though you could have lotsa fun like I am now with crap tyres), it also means you can't accelerate (so all your performance mods are no use) and you can't brake.

I think Q (or was it QT, can't remember) once brought to light that the difference between a crap tyre and a good tyre may be the difference between you stopping in time and you crashing. How much would it cost to repair the car? And what about your insurance premiums? What if you get hurt?

Sway bars, well... If you had really good tyres and no (or crummy) sway bars then the car would be body roll central and with my anti-bucket seats I'm already hanging on to the steering wheel for dear life, so...

Then again, I think it all also depends on how much the car is worth. Would you spend $2000 on tyres for a car that is worth $1500?

So based on all of this, what sort of tyres am I going to buy for my "new" "bigger" 14" rims? My car is worth probably about $1800 (though it is insured for the currrent market value of $4000 (???)).

I was thinking of getting something good (as good as 175/65R14 tyres go), no idea how much they'd be worth, say $150-$200 a tyre, that would put me at $600-$800 for the set. Hmm...

Or, maybe I'll go a little cheaper and get average family-car sort of tyres, say at about $100-$150 a tyre. $400-$600 a set. Probably a bit more realistic. After all, I have all of 58HP at the fly on a good day. How fast am I going to be driving? Not very fast at all. Do I have any suspension mods to help me corner? No. So even if I had good tyres, the car would probably roll over if I tried to corner too hard...

But no, I definately don't think I'm going to be getting really crummy tyres. No All Rounders, definately no Road Champs. Something with a decent brand (Bridgestone, Good Year, Kumho, whatever).

I think I type too much.

[coyote]

Don't take it too literally guys. The swaybars is just an example that comes to mind with my car. It has front and rear anti roll bars but I could change them to improve things. Substitute in anything else that people spend money on instead of better tyres: springs, wheels, exhausts, turbos, neon lights ;-), BOVs, etc, etc, etc....

[rowdytoot]

Coyote.. I realise that it was just an example..

but the sway bar story I related is my only one :D

Seriously the extra 500 bucks on the rim and tyres killed the 250 bucks I spent on the exhaust for improvement in performance, but like Dem I probably had about 65 hp too :D


Demuire, get some 185/60/14's , much more common size.. and cheaper coz of it..

RT

[demuire]

RT: Am not sure yet, I've been hearing lotsa diferent opinions. Is 185/60R14 a lot heavier in the steering? I didn't really want to go too far up in size (after all originals were 155/80)... But haven't fully decided yet. Am still looking

[Kinks]

the key is to buy stuff that's suitable for your setup. There's no point putting fantastic tyres on a shit car with lots of body roll because it'll just end up on its roof. Likewise why piss money away on setting up the suspension well and then put $40 specials on it, you'll have no grip! (an exception is if you're planning to warm up those specials to temperatures that everyone expects shit tyres to be warmed up to!)

[Matty]

A good POV, coyote, but of course it has to be remembered that tyres are wear items (like oil and brake pads).

But I'd much rather have a set of 14" Advans than a set of 16" shitters for the same price (and my 2nd hand, lightweight 14" rims cost $100 - for the set!)

(to those thinking of good road-going 185/60-14s above, I recommend these at about $210 each)

The fact that the smaller OEM rims are never going to get knocked off is another bonus. :D

[Boxer]

Ahhh yes but a great set of tyres can really show up the shortcomings of the chassis/setup that you may be able to ignore on shit rubber!

Have it both ways I say - buy the ricey 17's cheap (like T99 and I did with the 16's for the Hondas) then put good rubber on them!

[demuire]

Hmm, I'm actually being swayed to the 185/60R14 tyres now, after all there is SO MUCH MORE CHOICE!!! I'll probably be spending about $100 a tyre, not much more than that.

Something simple, something non-performance, something reasonable.

[karl_2ltGC]

poor tyres mean a very unsafe car....cos once the ass comes out its ALOT harder to get back....

I've been taking it pretty easy in my car due to the shockingly poor 165 75 R13's....

Will have some 1/2 descent 185 14" rims and tyres later this week. That should improve things alot.

[demuire]

Heh, I don't think tyres get very much poorer than the ones I currently have now :)

[rowdytoot]

Demuire,

the rolla always had either 185/65/13's on the front, or 185/60/14s or 195/50/15's , plus I'm a 100 kg weakling :p, so I tend not to notice what most ppl would consider heavy steering..

It'll be heavier that 155's but I never found it overly bad even difficult.. with a 14 inch sports steering wheel.


RT

[Nick]

Ricey 17's? 17's are small on a Supra man! :D They weigh less than my stock 16's anyway so pfffttt!

Argg we keep missing each other Tony, rang and keep getting a busy signal.

[gti6]

Aah but Nick they'd be lighter as a 16 in the same brand/model! :)

[Nick]

Yeah but remember I have a fairly large wheel. So a 17 on my car would be like having a 16 on a smaller car. With a 16 on my car that is a hell of alot of sidewall.

[coyote]

Yep, agreed. It's Nick's case it would be ricey 19s ;-)

[rj-astra]

Ahhh yes but a great set of tyres can really show up the shortcomings of the chassis/setup that you may be able to ignore on shit rubber!


I tend to disagree on that point...

Why else did Hyundai tend to fit high quality rubber to mediocre cars? The Previous model lantra is a case in point. It was originally fitted with high qulaity michelins which tended to mask any suspension shortcomings.

[Composer]

Regarding the cost of tyres, don't better tyres (the more expensive stuff) wear out faster than ur normal family car tyre due to their softer compound? Surely this has to be taken into account when comparing the cost/benefit of other go fast bits vs tyres.

[demuire]

Composer: Not necessarily. It depends on the compound of the more expensive tyres. You will find that the "touring" tyres, even if they are more expensive, will tend to be a fairly durable compound.

Cheap tyres are generally hard as, as it is easier and cheaper to make nasty hard rubber than it is to make sticky rubber that lasts...

[Sketchy]

just a thought demuire, a good friend of mine had a full set of jelly bean 13's with 205/60/13 brand new tyres sitting at his place that his was going to let go real cheap.

they came off his rwd rolla panelvan so i'm assuming they'd fit yours?

he leaves for the army soon, so if you want me to find out about them, let me know soon.

[demuire]

Sketchy: Heh, thanks for the thought :) I actually have a set of 14" Corona rims sitting at home (well two of them are on the front of the car at the moment, the other two are still getting cleaned out), so it's okay :) Besides, 205??? Geez that's big :) The originals are 155/80R13, I'm running 175/65R14 on the front and 165/75R13 on the back at the moment... Hence my umm... dodgy traction on Mt Nebo on Sunday...

[Sketchy]

hehehe i had some traction issues following you up the hill but most of them were intentional to be a fully sik drift master and shower those following with rubber and stuff.

Thats my story and i'm sticking to it :p

[CnC]

I just spent $550 per corner on some brand spankin Yokohama Advan A048R's, they are pretty extreme tho :)

[Jay_G]

i have bought some second hand tyres before and they are very good, in 195x65x14.

they cost $57 a tyre with about 80 percent tread left on them and i was told that yokahama make them they are just branded differently for the overseas market (rebadging sorta stuff). they are called Maxrun Excelas.

if you go to a place that sells second hand tyres they get most of their stuff from japan as they change their tyres seasonaly. and they bring over quite a lot of sports tyres very cheap.

worth a thought in bringing down the costs.

[HoonBoy]

Softer tyres can theoretically last longer as they won't slip as much as harder tyres. Less wheelspin and sideways slip means less wear. It only works to a point of course.

I try to stick to common sizes when picking wheel/tyre combo's can be a pain in the arse if you need odd sizes such as 205/55 x 15. Can take the best part of a day to get two tyres :mad: :mad: :mad:

[demuire]

Hehe, well I was running Riken Maystorms on the front, I got them for about $100 each, and they are GREAT. In the dry, better than my Falken Zeix, and in the wet, much better than the Zeix.

And I'm running dodgy $40 Road Champs on the back :) I was actually quite surprised at how the rolla went actually, apart from umm... having some issues with going up hills (SLOW AS) and the brake overheating issues...