S13 Silvia Engine Conversion options

[L Plater]

ok, it's time to get rid of my ca18de auto after getting blown away by my mates sr20det 180sx.

Options are:
RB20DET front cut - $2k
Rebuild current engine [ca18de] with manual gearbox - $unsure
SR20DET out of S13 or S14 - $unsure

I need some opionons.
How much does the rb20det ruin the perfect 50/50 weight distribution of my S13?
I know that for the ca gearbox/tailshaft/clutch + lines + cylinders + pedal costs about $700, so how far can I get with my engine with $1300? It will need to be turbo.
How much do forged piston's and conrod's cost?
How much does a bore and hone cost?
Is it possible to get your crankshaft machined to be stronger and handle boost?
Will my cams be up to the task of boost or will something up top have to be upgraded?
How much is:
S13 SR20DET front cut? engine/gearbox/electrics?
S14 SR20DET with vvt front cut? engine/gearbox/electrics?

Any ideas or help appreciated.

[Forg]

I don't really know the answer to any of the above, except to say that the reason nutbags put RB20's into them is purely for the sake of being obtuse ... :)

Seriously though, how much of this are you doing yourself, and what do you want to achieve at the end of the day? Unless you can do it all yourself (and have a cheap supply of parts), you'll usually end up spending more on a conversion than if you just sold the current car & bought one that's blown from the factory.

[meggala]

why not put an ca18 det and converst to manual makes sense to me
meggala

[nyeah]

nah dont go ca18, its too old now

go the sr, seen as the engine has been in production for so long up until the s15 its good to know that there would be more parts available for a long time

[nyeah]

btw a good condition s13 sr20det front cut would be around $4000

s14 $5000.......ure lookin at around those prices

the engine alone on the s13 is about $2500 i think

[MWB]

my opinion get a manual CA18DET from

HERE (http://www.jaustech.com.au/default.htm)

or

HERE (http://www.sssautomotive.com.au)

[L Plater]

Thanks for your input everybody. Due to a lack of funds, I may have to go with the ca18det conversion which will be good to start off with, with my p plates.

Only bad thing is my mate has a sr20det (still stock) which will always down me :mad:

I went to the local import wrecker where I'm at (newcastle - toy shop wreckers) and they said it is hard to get good condition ca18det front cuts :( ......so I gotta look around to find one.

[Chad]

go for the rb20, i dont understand what forg means by being obtuse, but they are a ncie motor, and they fit realitvely well, the only deal is, u need ur thermo fan/s on the front of the radiator because space is tight, as for the weight transfer, frizbee on the forums, did this conversion to his silvia, and apparently by putting a strut brace onto it it helped the handling a bit, it will be heavier, but i dont know by how much

[de_rift]

Originally posted by Chad
go for the rb20, i dont understand what forg means by being obtuse, but they are a ncie motor, and they fit realitvely well, the only deal is, u need ur thermo fan/s on the front of the radiator because space is tight, as for the weight transfer, frizbee on the forums, did this conversion to his silvia, and apparently by putting a strut brace onto it it helped the handling a bit, it will be heavier, but i dont know by how much

by being obtuse he just means different...


if you did go the way of the RB20DET, then using a small turbo would be the only way to have it streetable.

It is such a dog before it is under boost, moreso than an SR20 or CA18 because it has the same displacement, but more moving parts and therefore more weight to move.

you do know the cost insurance wise of these conversions? You would be lucky to even get a quote full stop having an RB20DET in your silvia, and remember you have to get the car enginered too :(

[Evo_Lee]

Lplater: People will know I prefer a CA18DET to a SR20DET, if you do some research you will see the bebefits of the 2, so the SR20 isn't the ultimate conversion. I agree the SR20 would be more readily available then a CA18 but I doubt their condition will be any better. RB20 ain't bad but as mentioned a small turbo would be better for response.

cheers

[ORX400]

yer I like the sound of a 13bt too!! :) would go well im sure :p

[L Plater]

I have heard before that the rb20 has nothing until it hits boost. But how much of a dog is it before boost? How worse off is it compared to SR20's coz I'm quite happy with the low-end torque pre-boost in sr20's, how do RB20's fair?

Also, people have told me that RB20's have more top-end than SR's. If this is the case, at what speed/rpm would the rb20 climb over the sr (if it does).

[dieline]

Originally posted by L Plater
I have heard before that the rb20 has nothing until it hits boost. But how much of a dog is it before boost? How worse off is it compared to SR20's coz I'm quite happy with the low-end torque pre-boost in sr20's, how do RB20's fair?

Also, people have told me that RB20's have more top-end than SR's. If this is the case, at what speed/rpm would the rb20 climb over the sr (if it does).

Yes they are a bit breathless at low RPM, but not that bad to be completely honest. (RB20) They really come into their own in comparison to the SR when the revs rise, but in stock form the SR20 does have a stronger midrange. But they are not as bad as a lot of people on these forums seem to make out. Sure they are not like a ford six re bottom end, but they aint a slug either.

In regards to the topic, if you are on P's, be really different and build a killer CA18DE naturally aspirated! Massive compression, huge cams etc ;) j/k though it would be cool. I would fit the CA18DET with a manual box with a T28 and decent front mount, it will keep up with a stock SR20.

[L Plater]

Thanks for your response.

Could someone that knows or has experienced this give me a picture of what these comparasons/races would look like over 400m

My S13 Silvia with RB20DET stock vs:

180sx SR20DET stock
RX7 Series 4 13B Turbo stock

Thanks.
Also, just out of curiosity, how much more does the VVT SR20DET have over the non-VVT S13 SR20DET?

[dieline]

Originally posted by L Plater

Could someone that knows or has experienced this give me a picture of what these comparasons/races would look like over 400m

My S13 Silvia with RB20DET stock vs:

180sx SR20DET stock
RX7 Series 4 13B Turbo stock

You will beat both by the end of the 1/4, but the SR20 180 will knock you around a bit on the line. Depends on how you can drive though.


Originally posted by L Plater

Also, just out of curiosity, how much more does the VVT SR20DET have over the non-VVT S13 SR20DET?

No idea sorry haven't driven both back to back.

[L Plater]

Thanks for the quick response :D

Hearing that the rb will beat both my mates stock vs. stock makes me feel good :D

I think I will be going the rb20 conversion based on the stock comparason.

If you would know...by how much would I be beating them, not taking into account driving ability.

[floody]

A lot of people who have sampled rb20 conversions in aussie R31s (e.g replacing the rb 30) reckon that, unless the top end is screaming, if you are going to have a road car they are a step backwards. I realise a skyline's towing a bit more weight around, but if they are a bad thing compared to an old 116kw rb30.....Then again pooey old r31 with a stocky '30 would probably romp all over a ca18de powered silvia....I dunno, people are getting like 400hp plus from ca18's, with the money you save buying this and bolting it nearly straight in you could probably do enough mods to eat the Sr 180Sx, and frankly an RB conversion would be a pain in the arse, phrase lead tipped arrow mean anything? just think 250 x-flow powered cortina....
cheers,
floody

[dieline]

No worries. I can't realy speculate on an exact distance or time you will beat your mate buy, but it will be noticable. But its almost an offence to put a stock RB20DET into anything, they are just begging for more. Just use a VG30DET or RB25DET turbo (they both bolt on) and you can now see 200kW atw. The stock gbox will take this, as will the clutch (breifly) and then, in 'on the road' terms, you will be able to spin your wheels all the way through second and into third gear, which is an absolute ball.

With my navara (and its 4.9 : 1 diff gears) I can spin in top. Which does not mean much technically, but god its fun.

A lot of people say the fitment of the heavy iron block RBs into S13's kills the handling, but in lamens terms, its not that bad. I have driven a S13 Silvia (well sileighty) with a RB20DET in it, and it handled fine in my book. Danny from JMS said in a Zoom or HPI article that his old Onevia drift car had the most on the limit controllability (is that a word?) than any other S13 he had driven.

You won't regret the fitment of the RB20DET. For a build up of one (Rb20DET S13) visit www.d-u-e-l.com

[L Plater]

Thanks again.

I have thought about doing a ca18det conversion but I would always be a step behind my mates sr20 which would always give me the shits as we would be modding at about the same rate and then my car is just a normal 1.8 turbo sil with q's bages, no lsd and poor brakes. Where as with the rb conversion (bear in mind the rb20det and ca18det are the same price for a front cut), it would be something different, more drift happy :P and be good to see what power output the 6-cyl could pull over the 4cyl.

What turbo's do the VG30DET and the RB25DET carry? Am I right in saying that the rb20det has a ceramic roller T3? or is it a T28?

Also, my S13 is unfortunantly currently auto but I think this means that my diff ratio is smaller compared to a S13 manual diff. If this is the case, would that mean that my pick up would be better (than a manual S13 diff) but I would lose more in the top end? And how much of an effect would this have overall over a 1/4 mile.

[dabigbolf]

HEY L-PLATTER, i am on my L's to.

I have a yellow silvia, which had a ca18det. The turbo had been rebuilt and the seals were gone on it once again. It blew smoke like a dogg. But for a 1.8 litre it was really fun to drive. Pulling up to the lights was mad. When you see these P-platers in there naturally aspirated cars. Lights go green, spool her up, and tell mum to shut up cause she is telling you to slow down. But you get that huh.

what i think your doing is mad, be interesting to see how your car turns out. Currently i am putting an rb25det in mine, which should have been started last week, but there has been a few delays. Need a trailer to tow my car.

I would push it to the mechanics house, but theres a killer hill.

Hopefully i can get my car done before school finished, wouldn't mind giving a bit of show for the boyz.

anywayz laters now

[L Plater]

sounds good dabigbolf!

a torquey rb25 in the light-ass drift happy s13 would be very fun to drive I would imagine :D

Currently, I'm not able to blow cars away at the lights but it should be all good by the time I get my P's (18 days), if I have the engine in by then.

[dabigbolf]

so have you bought the engine yet or still deciding.

And who are you getting to fit it and wire it up.
Does your state require an engineers report or not, down here in melbourne they are 600 bucks.

Also don't worry if you can't munch your friend. Just do mods so you can. Then he'll ne shattered, when he gets beaten by a 1.8 or a 2 litre.

either way its a turbo, sweet as for a first car.

[L Plater]

Well I've got the money, I'm just looking for a phesable front cut and I'm going to be putting it in, may just need a bit of help with the wiring. Yeah, in NSW they require an engeineer's certificate, but a mate of mine is an engineeer and is only gonna charge me the fee he has to pay which is $54

[dabigbolf]

for real!!!

$54 is nothing. wish i new an engineer who wasn't born just to try and rip people.

So do u have an engine crane to put it in, or are you just going to hire one. I don't really have the knowledge or space to put my engine in. Single garage and never really worked with cars. Just own one and want it to go fast.

anywayz hope everything goes well for you.

must go

cya

[L Plater]

No, I don't have an engine crane :(
currently I'm searching for a second hand engine crane and engine stand. I also am limited for room living in a suburbian house. This is my FIRST engine conversion, so it'll probly take me ages to do....but it's all part of the fun!