20bt S2 Rx7

[bernie-rx7]

Never really posted this up before. Has kinda been a little ongoing project of mine for the last couple of years. Done most of the work myself - Now its nearly at the stage where I'll let people have a look. I cant let you know all my secrets but lets just say I'm looking forward to debut at next years summer nats Dyno comp.

Enjoy! :D

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN0970.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN0973.jpg

[Zac]

whoa... methanol?
why no intercooler?

[bernie-rx7]

yeah ran a 10' PWR water to air intercooler. found it a little restricting down low seeing as though the exhaust housing is pretty big. So i ripped it off and decided to go methanol injection along the compression pipe and water injection through the turbo. has gained a few ponies. not to say the Water to Air wasn't good just the turbo is quite large.

[Zac]

I see! is that legal (to HP Heroes rules)?

btw, are you injector methanol by engine load or rpm? and what are you using to inject it?

[bernie-rx7]

Using mercedes benz injectors that are methanol safe. boost actuated not rpm. even without methanol injection I do believe that sumernats allow water injection which is quite ok to still do an impressive dyno run on pump fuel..

[Zac]

Cool, what is different about them that makes them methanol safe? I presume they might even be water safe.

[Datman]

That is simply awesome :worship:

Awesome job dude...hope it goes well at the Summer nats....do you think it will be ready for any other shoot outs prior to the summer nats?

[bernie-rx7]

They're stailess steel injectors with a special neoprene seal. and yes they are water safe also.

[Zac]

Nice, do you recall which model car they were from? do you have any other specification like flow, impedance, etc. Was the neoprene seal fitted yourself?

[bernie-rx7]

That is simply awesome :worship:

Awesome job dude...hope it goes well at the Summer nats....do you think it will be ready for any other shoot outs prior to the summer nats?

Thanks for the kind words. I really don't know if i will. I kinda like the idea of plodding along quietly and rolling up fairly unknown.

[Rhys]

Pretty impressive Bernie well done. More importantly does it chirp second?

[bernie-rx7]

Nice, do you recall which model car they were from? do you have any other specification like flow, impedance, etc. Was the neoprene seal fitted yourself?

Actually I really don't know. A cluey friend of mine informed me of them and suggested that they would be perfect to run off a couple of mt2 computers. So we just made up a rail and put them in. and then went to the dyno to tune the feed.

I could try to find out for you though.

[bernie-rx7]

Pretty impressive Bernie well done. More importantly does it chirp second?

third, forth and fifth. I think the box might be the next thing to go though. Series 5 won't hold up long if I get some decent tyres

[Zac]

I could try to find out for you though.

I'd appreciate that if it isn't too much trouble.
I've never actually tested an injector with water or methanol but 'they' say that the injector will rust or sieze.

[bernie-rx7]

I'd appreciate that if it isn't too much trouble.
I've never actually tested an injector with water or methanol but 'they' say that the injector will rust or sieze.

thats because most are mild steel. they also have rubber seals which deteriorate with methanol. I'll ask my friend later on in the week when I see him next.

[Zac]

Thanks, I'd almost given up on load-based non-fuel injection given that a typical injector will rust.

[bernie-rx7]

Thanks, I'd almost given up on load-based non-fuel injection given that a typical injector will rust.

Are you looking to ditch the intercooler idea also??

[Zac]

No, just compliment it. My intercooler won't be enormous but I might end up running upwards of 20psi.
I would also like to test for myself whether a load based water or water/meth injection is still viable. I have thought out a system that will operate load based rather than just 'on/off'.
Sounds like what you have done with the microtech.

[bernie-rx7]

I run 1 x LTX12 for fuel and ignition and 2 x MT2's one for for meth one for water. 4 methanol injectors and 2 water. Seems to work pretty good.

Apparently the merc injectors are called a Bosch 403.

You can find specs on this site. As I found out the washers are nylon not neoprene as I previously mentioned. I knew what I meant though :p

http://wwwrsphysse.anu.edu.au/~amh110/Technical_pages/bosch_403_fuel_injector.htm

[Zac]

Thanks, and nice webpage but they're the wrong ohms! :( I'll investigate high impedance Bosch injectors. Maybe Bosch models are stainless steel and jap ones are stainless. Must be that 'superior german engineering' again :)

[Zac]

I forgot to ask, how much did you have to pull back on fuel (if at all) when you started injected the water/meth?

[bernie-rx7]

The meth and water injectors simply start pulsing more with higher boost load complimenting the normal fuel mix, a little fuel needs to be pulled from the LTX12 mix but not a great deal cause i still might drive it without meth and I dont want it to lean out too much if pushed. When the meth and water tanks are empty lights come up on the dash telling me that I should shut off one or both of the MT2 computers. It runs well without any water or meth at all I just don't push it too hard. Mind you if you do its hard to get the power down anyway.

[Zac]

Interesting, thanks. I was expecting to run dual timing maps - one for water, one without, but perhaps the injection won't have as much of an effect as I expect.

[bernie-rx7]

Don't get me wrong it is hard to get right. The Dyno tuner was treading very carfully with my engine and it did take a long time to get it to the point where I was comfortable. It is running quite fat at the moment and I have given up a few ponies for some engine safety.

[Zac]

Yes, I see. Trying to find the right balance.
What kind of pump do you use to push the methanol?

[bernie-rx7]

A mallory 110FI

[Ben Wilson]

zac - According to this (http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&th=60626&start=0&rid=131&S=3d4b12920c7277c242d81f5827b0d7eb) thread on Toymods, you can add a little coolant to a water/methanol mix and that will stop normal fuel pumps and injectors from corroding...

[Zac]

Thanks Ben. I wonder if one of those Flojet pumps could handle a 90%water 10% methanol mixture. They look pretty hardy.

[Grunt]

lovely...

completly understated interior and thats even better!!

Congrats...

[Grunt]

lovely...

completly understated exterior and thats even better!!

Congrats...

[bernie-rx7]

A mismatched Schwitzer turbo with special goodies from the states. Lets just say a TA51 is small in comparison. I don't want to give too much away. There is reasoning behind the madness and also reasons why an air to air is a big fat waste of time also. :)

Thanks for the kind words.

[Southo]

I see you couldn't fit a decent sized turbo in there, so had to run with that tiny one instead.... : :oh:

[bernie-rx7]

I really need to go to a racetrack for a good incar video. I can video it reving or somthing and plodding around on the streets but its not quite the same.

[Dansedgli]

skids?

[80DGY]

Edited For New Pic

http://img39.exs.cx/img39/8964/picsofskids6yq.gif

[bernie-rx7]

Righto guys I promise I shall make a vid this weekend. :)

[2ofdem]

If you want ill make a vid of it doing skids if you wish and how the hell did you get thing legal?

[Tripper]

Righto guys I promise I shall make a vid this weekend. :)


bump

[bernie-rx7]

Sorry been real busy with work. Just started a new job and moved all my shit into a unit in Brisbane on the weekend. So, that took up most of my weekend. Just noticed on my way down the coast tonight that oil is leaking from the rear turbo housing so I'll be pulling it apart this weekend. Ithought I smelt burning oil :O I'll see how I go though. If i get it back together I'll do some filming. I hate making promises followed by excuses. I don't like to disapoint you guys. :sad:

[Sockz]

I don't like to disapoint you guys. :sad:

Only looking at pictures, I can tell this car is anything-but a dissapointment!

[bernie-rx7]

Guys I have videos. But dailup at home takes forever to upload. Here's some pics till I work out what to do.

[bernie-rx7]

Oh and here's the number plates I just bought. cool hey :cool:

[bernie-rx7]

The ltx-12 is about $1600 dollars worth and controls feul and ignition the mt-2s are about $500 each and only control methanol and water. Most of the time the other two are switched off altogether. Motec is much more expensive like 6k+ for what I want to do and I couldn't justify the expense. The Microtecs in this case are tried and proven and do the job well and they are also what I'm comfortable with. the MT's simply piggyback the existing system.

Truth is I never planned on running methanol originally and ran a w/a intercooler with the LTX-12 on its own. the MT-2 were an after thought when the intercooler got pulled out.

I found originally due to the size of the turbo that it was a little laggy. To get around this I changed the exhaust manifold to run 3 into 1 rather than 3 separate extractors into the exhaust flange. Off this I run 2 x 40mm HKS wastegates rather than one 50mm. this seemed to improve things alot. After this I set about reducing the compression wheel restiction by ditching the PWR w/a and decided to cool it with meth and water. Result. comes on at 4000rpm rather than 5000 rpm marked increase in torque and midrange power.

[Rz]

nope :)

[bernie-rx7]

Look :confused: I just get the shits trying to figure this out!!! So, go here http://www.streamload.com

my username is: bernard_elsey
my password is: bernierx7

when I get the chance i'll post up more vids

[Tripper]

bernie put them on a cd and send it to me

PM me for my address if you want to do this, ill upload and host them

[bernie-rx7]

need to find someone with a burner. my mums computer is about 500 years old and doesn't have one. I blew my computer up late last year when i accidentaly flicked the ac/dc switch while it was on. ooops :rolleyes:

[Mundi]

Nice car, ive got a 20B in a Series 2 with 2 x GT35's that should be finished within the month. Mechanic has said it should make 750rwhp on c16 without stressing it too bad. Planning to drag it, circuit or just cruise?

[Grunt]

throw some pics up mundi!!!

3g for the plates?

[PunkRX]

Awesome looking car, id just like to say i think uve done a fantastic job with the whole set up.

In the photos it all looks really neat and balanced.

cheers.

[bernie-rx7]

thanks for the comments guys! :) Still a little work in progress though, I must address the gearbox and traction issues next.

Mundi how about posting some photos of your car??

[Mundi]

thanks for the comments guys! :) Still a little work in progress though, I must address the gearbox and traction issues next.

Mundi how about posting some photos of your car??

I definately will when i get it back. Been a year since i drove it last...

[Cplus]

great work Bernie.

20B early seven has always been on my "list" :D

[bigmuz]

I found originally due to the size of the turbo that it was a little laggy.

Do you think?

:D
Muz

[bernie-rx7]

Not as bad as you might think though. In the early days even without the compression piping hooked up and the exhaust running through the turbo the car would still spin wheels in 3 gears and had adleast a couple of hundred ponies at the wheels. 20b's create a surprising amount of torque unlike the 12a and 13b relatives. :)

[Turbo 351]

Here are some pics of my S2 Rx7, not quite finished yet. Cosmo 13B, GT42, M800 & Motec CDI, Tiltion twin plate, HKS 60mm gate, 18" Racing harts, S5 front end (Rack and pinion), 321 SS manifold etc etc

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~glenhordern/mypic151.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~glenhordern/mypic165.JPG

http://members.optusnet.com.au/~glenhordern/mypic173.JPG

[Cplus]

that manifold looks horn.

How long till she's on the road?

[Turbo 351]

that manifold looks horn.

How long till she's on the road?

I just picked up the loom for my CDI yesterday so i still have LOTS of wring to finish, if i got serious, i could have it started in 2 weeks, but i'm thinking of painting the eng bay, so that will push it back a month or so-as i'll be doing it myself.
So hopefully under 2 months :sad:

[bernie-rx7]

:D nice! that speedflow radiator piping must have cost you a pretty penny! after spending 3.5k on braided lines i kinda stopped short when I saw the price for radiator hoses. It does look horn though! Well done!

Nice to see more people going down the water to air route too. :D

[Turbo 351]

:D nice! that speedflow radiator piping must have cost you a pretty penny! after spending 3.5k on braided lines i kinda stopped short when I saw the price for radiator hoses. It does look horn though! Well done!

Nice to see more people going down the water to air route too. :D

Thanks, yes all the braid did cost quite a bit, that's dash 20 on the rad, and dash 16 on the intercooler.

[bernie-rx7]

mundi its time for you to take some photos!

[psi999]

1st thing i thought of after looking at both of your pics (before I ready your posts) was the $'s you guys must have spent with speed flow. I’m up to $1000 with probably another $500 to go and I’ve got bugger all really, you guys must have spent a mint!...... I don’t want to know how much a 90 deg -20 bend is... ouch!

oh nice conversions guys, SEQLD certainly turns out some nice looking well constructed conversions :D

[Puff_Datto]

dude thats hot.. congrats on your..... new DAILY DRIVER :P

[bernie-rx7]

yeah daily driver. cough cough! averages about 4km per litre :D

[see_my_seven]

20B series 2 with a big mutha turbo on methanol.
The stuff dreams are made of! :worship:
Congrats dude!

Mick

[bernie-rx7]

Hehehe. Yeah and with the money i've spent I could probably have 2 x series 7's. 20b's the stuff of dreams and empty pockets. :D

[see_my_seven]

Hehehe. Yeah and with the money i've spent I could probably have 2 x series 7's. 20b's the stuff of dreams and empty pockets. :D

HAHAHA true that!

Mick

[walkie]

very, very nice bernie. you must be very proud of yourself :)

[bernie-rx7]

It's nice to have a project that I can atleast drive. god knows it was off the road for a couple of years. I'm proud. but not cocky. at the end of the day its just a car right.

[BUZ-11T]

thats BEEEEF

[bernie-rx7]

moo ;)

[bernie-rx7]

Just a quick update.... Bought a GT45r turbo with 1.22 exhaust housing and have pulled the Schwitzer off, temporarily. I reluctantly came to the conclusion it was too big for street use :rolleyes:. I was getting a little anxious waiting for it to spool up just to loose traction at 140kmh+. I supose it was a question of getting rid of the big turbo or die trying to make it work.

So here's the new plan. Stainless extractors replace the 3 to 1 header, keep the twin HKS wastegates. Run the GT45r retain methanol and water injection. Play with the intake plumbing. Probably finish engine bay stuff by mid next month.

Things left to do after that: Full weld in cage. Scatter shield or steel belhousing. Extend wheel studs. Remove the middle muffler that hangs too low.

Just got a 40 Gallon drum of Avgas last week. Race Engineering cut down some Saab rims for Front runners and some 626 wheels for the rear. will put the slicks on next week.

Jamboree could still be a possibility... If all else fails she might just go on show.

[bernie-rx7]

can't fit big rubber under these things unless you tub em or flair the guards. I still like the whole sleeper look it has going on. Flair the guards or tub the car and people start to look and wonder.mmmm :rolleyes:

[Rz]

never mind rusty , hes living in a dreamland where drag only turbos (that in reality can only make good on a full slick) are fine in any application , even your street tyred beasty :)
good choice on the gt42r , its a great little turbo.

[bernie-rx7]

never mind rusty , hes living in a dreamland where drag only turbos (that in reality can only make good on a full slick) are fine in any application , even your street tyred beasty :)
good choice on the gt42r , its a great little turbo.

Yeah... "great little turbo" :D I supose when you compare it to the Schwitzer it is little. :D

[bernie-rx7]

hey, he chose the schwitzer not me! i just reckon its a shame to downsize such a monster. i mean you could have also gone to a smaller hot side as another means of taming it somewhat :)

you're right... thats why I haven't sold it. I'll probably put it back on when and if I can find a replacement exhaust housing. till then the GT45r should be pretty damn good.

luckily the schwitzer and gt45's have the same exhaust flange/ should be a matter of just swaping them over in the future.

[Bermo]

Bernie,

Still gunna run it in HP Heros this year?

PS Now that is a true "Street Machine"

[bernie-rx7]

I'll try :D I have alot of things on my plate at the moment. and I just found out my mum is sick with cancer. So the car might end up on the backburner for a couple of months. I'll let you guys know

[bernie-rx7]

Project 3 rotor back on track. GT45r turbo being plumbed up as we speak. Watch this space.

Currently in Vietnam but the car is meant to be running when I get back to Aus in early January.

More posts to come. :D

[intehnet]

well?

[bernie-rx7]

Well another set back..... I'm kinda getting used to this :( . While overseas my mechanic, who is finishing the car off, has accidentally sawn off his thumb with a circular saw and is out of action for a couple of months. The doctors sewed his thumb back on but its going to take a while to heal. He's worked on the conversion with me from the start two years ago, and has been my mechanic for 7 years. It would break his heart if I gave it to another workshop to finish off. So, for now the car sits untouched....again! :cry:

Don't worry. After spending roughly $50k on the build up its not likely to sit dormant for too much longer. I will keep you all updated.

[THE ASH]

Fark! poor bastard :(


Is he a lone man operation?

[bernie-rx7]

yeah one man band. he's a carpenter who dabbles on wkends now. he used to have a shop but just got sick of all the 'Habibs' in the performance motor industry.

[bigmuz]

So he works single handed?

(Sorry)

:D

[bernie-rx7]

:rotflol:

[psi999]

he used to have a shop but just got sick of all the 'Habibs' in the performance motor industry.

Aint it true.....

[mizone]

bernie-rx7 = TemporaryAustralian

[bernie-rx7]

bernie-rx7 = TemporaryAustralian

I don't get it? If by that you mean I travel alot then yes. :confused:

[hotgemini]

Nah, temporary australian is a reference to the short life expectancy of someone with that much power in a S2 rx7.

[bernie-rx7]

Lol. :knock: my head

[GSRman]

its hard to tell how big the turbo is from those pics.. it doesn't look *THAT* big..

[bernie-rx7]

one on the left is the typical rotormans weapon of choice a T04b, just for comparisons sake :rolleyes:

[bernie-rx7]

Oh and heres the GT45r in comparison

[bernie-rx7]

fixed :w:

[GSRman]

i just can't find the pics im looking for..

the mazsport rx7.. or the queen st rx3, or even the jakes performance torrie..

or my personal favorite, hitman with the one that was bigger than the rotor housing in diameter :)

[2ofdem]

Graphic Skills Racing (Phil Laird) are using a GT60 on their 20b Falcon Ill see if I can find pics.

[koppers]

Utter thread hijack...... But on the topic of big turbos....

The 2jz powered Titan Toyota Scion ran 6.4 at 220 last weekend.
http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260065.JPG

Some others from the same meet:

http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260085.JPG
http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260061.JPG
http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260064.JPG
http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260049.JPG
http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/P1260041.JPG

More pics (http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/Friday%20Pictures/)
Videos (http://trmirror.rage-board.com/files/ScottsRaceStuff/2006%20USNats/Videos/FridayRawFootage/)

[bernie-rx7]

:eek: Holy mother of god those turbos are huge.

Just remmeber though guys my car is "street registered" and runs on pump fuel. there must be a limit to how big you can go on the street. I belive I found that limit and got scared by what I found :oh: . yeah yeah i'm gay i know :gay:

[GSRman]

im sure i saw a pic of a 5110 standing up in the inlet of the turbo on yes20b but aparently gus sold that because he was scared too..

im trying to remember.. i think it had a 105mm inducer..

[caibs]

what sorta hp are you hoping to achieve with the 45r on it bernie?

[bernie-rx7]

probably 750ish on pump fuel and methanol. the original huffer would have got it over 1000hp on race fuel. I spent a bucket load on engine internals to make sure it would have been up to the task. pretty much drag car specs.

basically $50-60k worth of running gear wraped in a $3000 shell. the next question is usually why would you bother?? Well.........

1) POS looking rx7
2) Smart arse European Exotica owner with too much money thinking his shit dont stink (Q - not you buddy)
3) Look on European Exotica owner as POS leaves him standing
4) Profit????


:w:

[GSRman]

bernie... 750 at the engine? a 13B at summernats made over 700 atw on pump fuel..

tough street car.. hella tough.. but not a dyno queen.. incidentally who did the porting on the engine?

[bernie-rx7]

bernie... 750 at the engine? a 13B at summernats made over 700 atw on pump fuel..

tough street car.. hella tough.. but not a dyno queen.. incidentally who did the porting on the engine?

ATW dude. I dont like spouting expected HP figures until its sorted. lets just say 750 atw is the minimum aim. we'll see where we go from there.

I was aiming at over 1000hp ATW originally but on c16 which isn't impossible but i'd probably need to pull the engine down afterwards and rebuild.

also depends on the dyno. shootout mode is a crock of shit. I'm talking real HP

a good mate of mine did the porting, not big just nice.

[GSRman]

fair enough, what has it run so far?

[bernie-rx7]

Run-in tune fat as hell still sorting out the water/meth injection. 98ron limited to 5000rpm just over 400hp. 8-10 pound of boost from memory

[GSRman]

that would be fun :)

[bernie-rx7]

i havent driven it since last August. So im get a little anxious and frustrated

[GSRman]

:D i haven't driven my hilux since last july :) and i haven't owned a turbo car that ran for 4 years or something silly

[caibs]

1) POS looking rx7
2) Smart arse European Exotica owner with too much money thinking his shit dont stink (Q - not you buddy)
3) Look on European Exotica owner as POS leaves him standing
4) Profit????


:w:


i know its a poor comparison, but every time i eat someone with my corolla it makes me grin from ear to ear and i'm pleased with the car. i completely understand why you would do it, but i wouldnt say that yours is a POS, its a really nice example of an early rx7. i dont really like those early ones too much either, the fact that its clean and straight make it a good car - even without that beast of a motor in it.

onya mate, cant wait for some skid movies :rotflol: should be fun!

by the way, what sorta diff is going in that sucker?

[bernie-rx7]

i know its a poor comparison, but every time i eat someone with my corolla it makes me grin from ear to ear and i'm pleased with the car. i completely understand why you would do it, but i wouldnt say that yours is a POS, its a really nice example of an early rx7. i dont really like those early ones too much either, the fact that its clean and straight make it a good car - even without that beast of a motor in it.

onya mate, cant wait for some skid movies :rotflol: should be fun!

by the way, what sorta diff is going in that sucker?

Hey Caibs thanks for the kind words. I run a hilux diff 4.4 ratio with ARB airlocker kit. Probably not strong enough but the gearbox will break first at this stage as its only a S5 box. Any body got a G-force box that won't cost me $7500+++

[GSRman]

dale had a liberty internal'd top loader for sale a while ago.. but im pretty sure he sold it..

[bernie-rx7]

car is at the exhaust shop now getting the exhaust manifold and dump made up for the new turbo. gimme 2 weeks and I should have something to show you guys :yup:

[Datman]

Hey Bernie,

How did you go with the water/meth? We experimented with our Boost Cooler injection system on the weekend without an intercooler, and found that while it worked very well on the dyno, in the "real world" we need to go back to running a small air-air intercooler.

Our system meters the water flow in realation to boost pressure - the more boost the more water is injected. What we found was that on short bursts of throttle and during partial throttle, the system was not injecting enough water to keep the inlet temps under control. What we found was that by the end of the main straight at Wakefield Park, temps were back to a respectable level (45 degrees), but from the top of the hill to half way down the back straight, inlet temps steadily rose due to a lack of time at wide open throttle/boost.

We are now building a small intercooler to take care of inlet temps during lower boost levels and on partial throttle, while the water will assist the small cooler during higher boost levels.

In comparison to our track experience, on the dyno it performed VERY well. In highnsight, this was because each power run had the water on at all times. We actually noticed that even when the car was sitting at idle on the dyo, the inlet temps were rising little by little. As soon as another power run was done, temps immediately came back down.

Cheers,

Mark.

[bernie-rx7]

Interesting stuff Mark! how many water/meth injection nozzles do you run? if you have a fairly long inlet path on low boost the water might just be evaporating before it gets a chance to cool the combustion chamber in the engine??
I run four "water only" injectors now two infront of the turbo and two on the inlet piping before the butterflies. I run another six separate "methanol only" injectors one infront of turbo, two in the inlet piping and 3 direct into each port. The catch is you need alot of water meth carrying capacity for just general driving and street applications. Simply it just means I don't push it too hard when the tanks are empty.

In my opinion from a practicality point of view intercooling makes alot more sense. from a perfomance point of view nothing beats water/meth.

Thanks for your input though. I'd probably just try more nozzles to fix your low speed cooling issues. instead of going straight to the intercooling. Also what PSI is the injection set to come in??

Cheers,

Bernie

[bernie-rx7]

Its funny how 2 weeks turns out to be 5 months :knock: . Its so close that I can smell the Avgas, yet so far away I can't see the end. I'd like to say it will be on the road next week, but I'd probably be lying again. someone will find somthing else wrong with it and it will go back to the drawing board.

So lets just say it close. I bought some new tires for the FR18s I purchased for it. i supose thats a start. We needed new wategate springs, some git chopped the ones in mine. *note to myself always buy brand new parts where possible*

The fuel system had to be changed because the engineer wasn't happy with the surge and methanol tanks being in the cabin. Great! It pays to talk to one engineer! What a fark around:mad: Anyway, I bought a new droptank with internal swirl pot and ditched the surge tank. I cut out the tyre well which gave me some more room under the car for the methanol tank and new droptank. Ok! So she'll be ok now? Fingers crossed, lets hope the goal posts dont change again:) The car is starting to look like swiss cheese.

Progress photos to come.

Just letting you all know she's back on track

Cheers:yup:

[bernie-rx7]

She's back!!!! took her for a spin last night to sort out some rough road tuning.......Holy shit batman!!! Talks about flamage.....It has a constant flame on decel. proabably has somthing to do with the crappy tuning.....it looks cool though.. :D And fark does she growl. new turbo starts spooling up surprisingly early, like about 2500rpm pulls hard at 3500rpm.....Farking awesome!

I'll post some pics up later on this arvo. just gotta sort out some niggling little oil leaks and such.

I'm a happy man right now!:D :D :D

Three Rotor For Teh Win! ;)

[Chad]

Good to hear Bern!
Look forward to seeing it go around some corners at a track nearby soon...

[bernie-rx7]

Here's some pics as promised. I'll post up some more soon:yup:

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2040.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2037.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2036.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2035.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2034.jpg

[Sport4]

Road regoed !!!

Awesome job there

[F|sh]

sweet Bernie

[Nitephyre]

Extra New Hotness! :D

[thechuckster]

how do you go with temps in the fuel rail and injectors above/near the turbo? is there any heat shielding?

btw - very fucking grunty looking RX!

[bernie-rx7]

Just got back from a drive. Hot day today! the brake fluid resevoir caught on fire:oh: lucky i had a fire extinguisher and some helpful passers by otherwise she could have gone up in flames. just got it towed home now. pics to come.

[Cal]

That's awesome Bernie.

Cal.

[The Pupat]

Just got back from a drive. Hot day today! the brake fluid resevoir caught on fire:oh: lucky i had a fire extinguisher and some helpful passers by otherwise she could have gone up in flames. just got it towed home now. pics to come.


That's awesome Bernie.

Cal.

I think you score points for the most bastard post on PF. :p

That's a bit sucky Bernie. Hope there isn't too much damage. I wanna see this thing is full flight. I liked the meth/water injection system with the fuel controller idea.

[bernie-rx7]

Here's a couple of pics of the damage. had the potential of being alot worse. Lucky i had an extinguisher. if you don't all have a fire extinguisher in your cars then GET ONE!

[DrNick]

Very lucky there!

Car is looking great too!

S

[10sec rx7]

damm man

you can get remote tanks for those master cylinders ala rx3 style, give one of them a try!

[bigmuz]

how do you go with temps in the fuel rail and injectors above/near the turbo? is there any heat shielding?

btw - very fucking grunty looking RX!
They're fine. But the brake fluid reservoir might get too hot. Bernie make sure you have an extinguisher mate. you never know.

[bigmuz]

Shit, that post didn't appear for 4 days! Damn.

I was right though.






:D

[bernie-rx7]

thanks Muz. bit late for the good advice though:( Funny I've had trouble with this turbo causing heat, never had dramas with the other turbo though. probably has somthing to do with the tune. spits flames pretty easily. id say its hell too rich and the dump is getting super hot from afterburn.

[bigmuz]

Retarded ignition timing would be where I would look first. That makes for hot and fast.

[bernie-rx7]

yeah timing is pretty retarded. running in safe mode till I get it to a dyno. mind you nothing "safe" about fires under the bonnet!:eek:

[2ofdem]

I reckon you should change your nick from bernie-rx7 to burnie-rx7

Seriously cool car though and sucks it caught on fire.

[GSRman]

also sucks you didn't have video of it :) - makes it funnier after you have put it out :)

[bernie-rx7]

yeah I burnt my fingers in the process. that would have been funny to watch. After I exhausted the extinguisher there was a small spot fire that I wanted to get out. so i tried patting it out with my hand. dickhead!! :knock: hot plastic stuck to my fingers and gave me a nasty 3rd degree burn. Priority was not to let the methanol rail catch fire. that would have been real nasty!! :eek:

[psssi98]

Nice work bernie - hopefully that light at the end of the tunnel is visible now and not too far away!!

[Morgs]

Oh psssi98, the pun is killing me.

[bernie-rx7]

:rotflol:

[bernie-rx7]

The engine let go while on the dyno last night. I'll keep you all posted on the casue of the failure. :(

[jezza323]

ahhh no :( hard luck mate

hope it only let go in a little way..........and not a big way

[F|sh]

fuck?

did it throw a rotor? or turbo failure?

[arcane]

Here's hoping it's just a corner-seal spring or something minor like that!

[GSRman]

It's probably just the cam chain.

[bernie-rx7]

It turned out to be the sheared eccentric shaft. The damage is fairly minimal as it happened at low RPM. Housings, plates and apex seals are fine, just need's new side and corner seals and of course a new eccentric shaft (out of a D-block this time). Despite the damage not being too bad, I've decided to buy a proven race motor from MR Enforcer in Sydney rather than fucking around fixing the current motor.

I'll eventually track down another eccentric shaft for the failed motor and turn it into a periperal port. Something I should have done all along instead of stuffing around with turbo's :( .

Anyone got a cool sports sedan rolling shell???????

Photo's to come

EDIT*

1 fucked eccentric shaft

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2582.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSCN2583.jpg

[F|sh]

hmm

ring go-gear in WA or Kym ledger of LF products... i think they have a S4 RX-7 rolling shell somewhere.

[bernie-rx7]

I'm ideally after somthing I can just slip this motor into and go racing. with minimal effort. I'm sick of building cars right now I just want to drive them. :sad:

[F|sh]

give them a yell and see what they got.

go gear will be open about 11am EST.

ph: (08) 9443 4400

[bernie-rx7]

Tracked down a guy in NZ who makes 4 rotor kits. I've decided that a 4 rotor would be cool so the blown motor might be reborn as a 26b.......mmmmmmm le-mans goodness........mmmmmm:D Maybe somebody knows of a cheap gt40 rolling shell????? that'll piss the v8 boys off.

[lotec]

Tracked down a guy in NZ who makes 4 rotor kits. I've decided that a 4 rotor would be cool so the blown motor might be reborn as a 26b.......mmmmmmm le-mans goodness........mmmmmm:D Maybe somebody knows of a cheap gt40 rolling shell????? that'll piss the v8 boys off.

^^^ this guy's a certified nutbag!

[bernie-rx7]

^^^ this guy's a certified nutbag!


(in best Dr. Evil voice) buwahahaha, buwahahaha :D

[GSRman]

did hitmans engine ever get right?

[bernie-rx7]

Yeah Jeff Bruce is the bloke. His prices for 3/4 rotor kits seems pretty reasonable considering what Guru over here in Australia are charging for thier custom billet cranks. Even better considering the bannana republic NZ dollar! :D

I don't know if hitman ever got his sorted but he was the pioneer of fist gen rx-7 20b converions. His car was a big inspiration for mine.

[GSRman]

just FYI, i think the guru versions have 'extra' centre bearings? along with needle rollers or something i think (pretty vauge now, been out of rotors for a while)

[bernie-rx7]

Jeffs also have the centre bearing & needle roller options. He was the guy that did them first.

Here's a price list he sent me;

General Info on Rotary Kits 01/01/2007

This is a general list of parts available to convert mazda 13b/12a type
engines to 3 or 4 rotor variants ,only the modified parts are
listed as most others are mazda items or are easily fabricated
by a competent engine builder.
All prices are in NZ$ and are ex factory so no allowances for
shipping etc have been made .
NZ customers should note that gst is charged on top of these prices.

1. 3rotor crank assy NZ$2400 (12a based version same price)
2. 4rotor crank assy NZ$3500 (includes special rear c/weight)(12a same price)
3. Centre housing modification for 3 or 4 rotor kits NZ$800 (2 req for 4 rotor)
4. Thru bolt set (10mm) for 3 rotor NZ$420
5. Thru bolt set (10mm) for 4 rotor NZ$450 (12mm also available)
6. Dowel set for 3 rotor kit NZ$140
7. Dowel set for 4 rotor kit NZ$150
8. Direct oil feed for 3/4 rotor kits centre housing NZ$90 (2 req for 4rotor)
this mod is not a necessity only an upgrade for the oiling system.
9. Replacement 20B shaft assy NZ$2400.
10. 20b shaft assy , 3 piece with extra needle bearing assy NZ$3200 (3rotor version same price)
11. 13b/12a centre bearing crank kit NZ$2000

note that the centre housing mod cost is only for the mod ,it does not
include the cost of a std front gear or the housing ,these items esp
the housings vary greatly in price depending on the year/type. They
can be priced on submission of version required.

[bernie-rx7]

i think you need to build a turbo quad rotor and use your original (schwitzer?) turbo, or its big brother :D

Nah. I'm over turbo's. I'd simply hook this baby up to a couple of 51mm IDA webbers, drill some periperal ports in the housings devcon up side ports and make it sound like this.

http://videos.streetfire.net/Comment/0/11b542db-f691-4f59-a31b-98970132885d.htm

[bernie-rx7]

yeah i think you might lose your sleeper status ............... somehow

I lose that everytime I start the current engine anyway. ;)

[Cal]

Sorry to here about your motor Bernie. Bet that made you feel sick in the stomach when it happened.

Why don't you just buy something ready to race? http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=6860

Cal.

[GSRman]

or buy my s4 shell and slap something silly in it :P

[bernie-rx7]

Sorry to here about your motor Bernie. Bet that made you feel sick in the stomach when it happened.

Why don't you just buy something ready to race? http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=6860

Cal.



Thanks Cal, Yeah I still can't believe that it let go. I sunk a small fortune into that thing only to come to the conclusion that re-inventing the wheel should be left to the experts :O. I wish I could blame the tuner...But it was running fat when the crank let go.

As for buying something. I had planned to buy a rolling shell sports sedan. I've kinda secretly wanted to build a 4 rotor. I'm not really interested in racing just another 13b Bridgeport or Periperal port. 3/4 rotor for me from now on. It's getting expensive being different though. :O


Cheers,

Bernie

[Guido]

Hmmm... I do not think you can legally run a 4 rotor sport sedan. I am pretty sure the motor must be production based.

Unless you just plan on doing AAA type events.

[bernie-rx7]

I'll sort out where and how I'll race it when I've done it........by the time I'm finished we'll all have flying hover cars anyway. :D

[Brent]

Fuck this sucks.
Your RX7 has been one of my favorite cars on PF.
I so wanted to see it work.
Turbo rotors are tough,
yours was going to a whole new level.

[bernie-rx7]

Thanks Brent,

Don't worry. I'll be back. Just a minor glitch in the grand plan. :)

Cheers,

Bernie

[Cal]

As for buying something. I had planned to buy a rolling shell sports sedan. I've kinda secretly wanted to build a 4 rotor. I'm not really interested in racing just another 13b Bridgeport or Periperal port. 3/4 rotor for me from now on. It's getting expensive being different though. :O

Problem with Sports Sedan is the fields are tiny and unless your budget is massive, you'll be at the back and pretty much racing nobody for the most part. Why not IPRA?

Cal.

[Chad]

Bernie, Luke Marinelli has a ford sierra based shell in his shed for sale, has big brakes and a diff shell, has big gaurds etc and all the moulds and some simmons ho9twires for wheels from memoyr, it is only a rolling shell though, may be too minimal for you. Not quite a GT40, but a ford sierra has some coolness about it.

[lotec]

Bernie, Luke Marinelli has a ford sierra based shell in his shed for sale, has big brakes and a diff shell, has big gaurds etc and all the moulds and some simmons ho9twires for wheels from memoyr, it is only a rolling shell though, may be too minimal for you. Not quite a GT40, but a ford sierra has some coolness about it.

^^^ This + THIS (http://www.performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67220064) = :D

[bernie-rx7]

nah! I was thinking more on the lines of 26bpp +

http://www.drbsportscars.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=12&Itemid=25

[bernie-rx7]

Should be getting the new motor any day now. I've decided dry sump will be the go especially if I'll be racing in sports sedans. I'll post up some pics when I dummy it up in the engine bay, might be cool to have a sport sedan that I can drive to the track!!

Cheers,

Bern

[The Pupat]

:eek: You're not using that shell in sports sedans are you?

You'll make baby jesus cry.

[bernie-rx7]

:eek: You're not using that shell in sports sedans are you?

You'll make baby jesus cry.


why the fuck not? Ok I admit that the wheels arnt wide enough and it hasn't got flares. But the straight line speed will more than compensate for slower corner speeds. i can't race in improved production, that only leaves me with some regularity races, AAA meetings, sports sedans and the such. I' don't care who'll have me, I don't even care if its fast or not. It'll be fun and thats all that matters. Baby Jesus can fuck himself. :yup:

[The Pupat]

why the fuck not? Ok I admit that the wheels arnt wide enough and it hasn't got flares. But the straight line speed will more than compensate for slower corner speeds. i can't race in improved production, that only leaves me with some regularity races, AAA meetings, sports sedans and the such. I' don't care who'll have me, I don't even care if its fast or not. It'll be fun and thats all that matters. Baby Jesus can fuck himself. :yup:

Nup none of those reasons. The shell looks in too good condition to fuck on a race track/have someone drive into the side of, that is all. :)

[FatBoy]

Don't do it Bernie, it'll get in your system and fuck you up bigtime...

Geez it's good fun though !! :D

P.S - May have a contact on a 20b S2 RX-7 Sports Sedan if you are interested ?? Won't be big dollars either, i'm thinking around 25k ready to run. Top 5 car too...

[bernie-rx7]

Don't do it Bernie, it'll get in your system and fuck you up bigtime...

Geez it's good fun though !! :D

P.S - May have a contact on a 20b S2 RX-7 Sports Sedan if you are interested ?? Won't be big dollars either, i'm thinking around 25k ready to run. Top 5 car too...


yeah sounds ok Paul, can you get some pics of the car?? probably better option, just running out of car space that is all.

[FatBoy]

He's got a spaceframed 20B S4 as well, so i'm pretty sure he'd part with it now. I'll chase up his number this week and give him a call then let you know... :)

[jmac]

I'd love to see coverage of that racing in ss - sounds great (aside from echoing other's concerns that it'd be a bummer if it got poleaxed by another car)

[bernie-rx7]

Just got an email from some guy named Andrew claiming to be the editor of fast fours. He wants to do a feature on the car when its finished (fucked knows when that would be)..........I said i'd give it some thought. I'd rather if Neil asked me to do a feature in RACE I certainly respect Neil's mag more. (Although some blond spread across the bonnet would be cool). Also it's less likely to have silly school kids and rotary habibs wanking over it every time i take it out.... I think that would really irritate me.....Rotary people in general irritate me

[GSRman]

"rotary tools" not "rotary fools" as in fools from the old skool..

annoy me..

as do toyota kids,

[fdrx7]

Except by the time you finish the 26b the 16x will be out and the 900HP 32b kits will be the thing to have :)

I make around $16k for a built 26bpp these days. Sound right?

[bernie-rx7]

Except by the time you finish the 26b the 16x will be out and the 900HP 32b kits will be the thing to have :)

I make around $16k for a built 26bpp these days. Sound right?

You're right by the time i make a 26b or even finish the current car we'll all be flying around Jetsons style.

Material costs for a 26b kinda gave me a fright. I decided I might just buy a jeff bruce crank and build one when I have the time and money.

To charge sombody $16K just to build one sounds a bit excessive. But, I have no idea whats the going rate is as I do most of the work myself.

There's a discussion about 767b kit cars on ausrotary. I can't believe that no body has made one yet:

http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?t=140908&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

a guy on there recons the shell went on ebay for a bargain. you'd just put it over a gt40 space frame and away you'd go!!

[fdrx7]

Pretty shocking at first, but I'm guessing it's really not that far off the final price of a built LS6 with the same power. Particularly given the insanely low volumes in the 4 rotor market :)

Yeah saw that thread. Can't figure out if that was the original bodywork rather than a replica? Certainly looks like it.

I think a GT40 in the Charge livery would be a good idea. Might not go down so well with the ford fans though :eek:

[JayTHEFordman]

I think a GT40 in the Charge livery would be a good idea. Might not go down so well with the ford fans though :eek:


mmmm, I could cope with a GT40 Kit sporting a wild 3 or 4 rotor, now that would be wild! I may love my Fords, but an old skool Rotor gives me goosebumps too.

[Cal]

Hey Bernie, as inspiration, check out the shots of the sports sedans on this guys website. Some cool rotors there: http://www.trentwallis.com/gallery/

Cal.

[bernie-rx7]

fuck yeah Cal how tough does this look

http://www.trentwallis.com/albums/SportsSedans02/TWB_2643web.sized.jpg

[Cal]

Yes, rather tough. I want this though.

http://www.trentwallis.com/albums/SportsSedans02/TWB_2634web.sized.jpg

[Chad]

fuck yeah Cal how tough does this look

http://www.trentwallis.com/albums/SportsSedans02/TWB_2643web.sized.jpg

Looks good, buts runs an sr20det last time I heard.

I love the sound of Mikac's s4 sports sedan, does that still run down south.

Cal, that jag looks the goods, did you ever see the demo of the historic sports sedans I think it was last year with the old jag v12 in it? It sounded awesome, had a heap of speed too.

[bernie-rx7]

Looks good, buts runs an sr20det last time I heard.


:gay: a car like that should atleast be running a 20b or 26b.....

[Cal]

Cal, that jag looks the goods, did you ever see the demo of the historic sports sedans I think it was last year with the old jag v12 in it? It sounded awesome, had a heap of speed too.

That's the Mark Trenoweth XJS. That car is actually the most sucessful Jaguar racing car in the world. Been watching it since I was a kid. Love it.

Anyhow, I'll stop talking Jags in your thread Bernie.

Cal.

[sware]

Is that Jag a sydney car? My tuner was talking about a Jag SS he had in a few weeks ago - twin turbo V12, made 600 at the bags on 10psi.

Sounds like it might be a bit of fun :D

[bernie-rx7]

on the topic.......well not really, I found this sport sedan on My105. pretty sweet looking capri would be heaps of fun.

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=7682

[Tripper]

needs a bigger wing

[Cal]

Is that Jag a sydney car? My tuner was talking about a Jag SS he had in a few weeks ago - twin turbo V12, made 600 at the bags on 10psi.

Sounds like it might be a bit of fun :D

No, it's from Melbourne. The one in Sydney is green. I saw it at Wakefield the other weekend. The guy showed me the dyno sheet......610 rwhp. It's 7L twin turbo. I raced it in the final race on Sunday and beat it. :)

Cal.

[bernie-rx7]

It's 7L twin turbo. I raced it in the final race on Sunday and beat it. :)

Cal.


What the fark were you driving Cal?? Surely not a humble MX-5???

[Cal]

What the fark were you driving Cal?? Surely not a humble MX-5???

:yup:

[Deus Ex]

/off topic

Hey Cal i saw you drive past KFC in Greenslopes on Friday.

Your Audi looks awsome!

/back on topic

[bernie-rx7]

check these puppies. Either would make a good home for a 20bpp. I'm leaning towards alfa though. :yup:

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=7838

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=7823

[The Pupat]

Looks like a lot more than 4 k of work left in the alfa, IE flared guards wouldn't be cheap I'd think.

[Cal]

Hey Cal i saw you drive past KFC in Greenslopes on Friday.

Your Audi looks awsome!

Thanks mate. :)

Cal.

[bernie-rx7]

Looks like a lot more than 4 k of work left in the alfa, IE flared guards would be cheap I'd think.

yeah but if you read the fine print the diff,wheels and suspension are a further 3k over the 4k extra making the blue thing 15K

[Cal]

Both seem pretty cheap to me, but I suppose the really expensive bit is missing.

Cal.

[MR 1JZ]

*subscribing to the madness which is this thread*

[bernie-rx7]

buwahahahahahaha:superman:

The new motor will be going in over the chrissy holidays. just been fiddling with dry sump parts and sourcing brakets, pulleys and belts for the new setup. Will put up some pics in the new year :-)

[bernie-rx7]

I've been a bit slack with this project :rolleyes:. Anyway, as I was saying over chrissy holidays we got the new whizz bang motor from Mr Enforcer and shoe horned it into the existing space we made. With the drysump bottom plate the engine sat a little lower in the car which was good. But as we were to find out the proposed pump and pulley setup intruded upon valuble radiator space.....bugger.

Anyway, I got the shits and the rad has come out. Probably going off to Drew at PWR for about the 11tybillionth time, this time, to get about 20mm reduced off the top so it sits less raked and more forward. Other than that she pretty much ready to rock and roll. Just a bit of plumbing work and she'll be apples.

Anyway, these photos are shit but shows you the new pump setup and the proposed location of the 13.5lt oil can in the boot.

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSC00574.jpg

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/DSC00576.jpg

[Shifty]

Jeezus

[bernie-rx7]

its a big can. should keep temps down and fix any oil starvation issues the old 5.5ltr baffled sump might have had. kinda looks a bit like the delorean in back to the future 2......this won't run on recycled bannana skins though :lol:

[SLO78U]

couldn't you put the can lower to the ground ?? like down behind the passengers seat ?? lust seams to look out of place there.

good work. BTW. when's it going to be on the black top again ??

[bernie-rx7]

couldn't you put the can lower to the ground ?? like down behind the passengers seat ?? lust seams to look out of place there.

good work. BTW. when's it going to be on the black top again ??

I thought about that for looks sake.... but it'll be easier to purge the system if it sits higher than the pump. Also, if you mount it lower than the pump after shut down the oil in the lines will head back to the can under gravity....for a moment on start up the engine will be starved of oil if the can becomes the lowest point in the system.

Instantaneous and constant oil pressure is my aim.

It'll take a couple of days after i get the radiator back from PWR. Motivation is the key factor. I've come to the realisation that I have too many toys and there isn't enough hours on the weekend. Its always easier to play with a toy that works and is less expensive to fix!!! :rolleyes:

[Guido]

Fuck me in the goat ass... getting pretty serious!!

So are we going to see this car out at the track?

[bernie-rx7]

hope so :rolleyes:. you would have all seen it alot sooner if the engine didn't let go on the dyno late last year.

[bernie-rx7]

i put a quick video in youtube just so you can get a feel for the sound that it makes. I was short shifting but you get the idea

look up "20bt s2" I'm at work so i can't direct link right now.

bernie ;)

[BoganDAVE]

fucking hell!

[bernie-rx7]

a bit better than the old "wank wank"

[Deus Ex]

haha sounds great, pretty sure i know exactly where you live now too =P

[bernie-rx7]

the car doesn't live there so if you try to rob me you'll be bitterly dissapointed :D

[Deus Ex]

:(

[bernie-rx7]

here's the link

WmWpF-YUjqk

[bernie-rx7]

Ok boys got the motivation back over the last couple of days. she's back up and running. haven't taken it out yet as I'm still ironing out some oil and coolant leak issues. will keep you posted.

Here are some videos of the new motor and oil system running shortly after first startup.....almost a year after the last motor died I'm finally back on track.... sorta......I hope this one holds together long enough for me to punt the bitch around a track a few times.

i suck at teh video cam:p


v3rGvl8PmLU

812GyydXSRg

HeRa-4EzMsA

[GSRman]

*WOW* glad you haven't gone silly or anything

Awesomeness..

[bernie-rx7]

off to the dyno tonight for a run-in tune......cross your fingers, toes, arms and anything else not crossed and pray to the wankel gods that this engine will hold together!!!

[GSRman]

good luck

[bernie-rx7]

thanks mate! :)

[Cal]

off to the dyno tonight for a run-in tune......cross your fingers, toes, arms and anything else not crossed and pray to the wankel gods that this engine will hold together!!!

I hope you aren't taking it to that shifty Chris character :)

[charged]

Good luck mate... hope the wankel gods are kind for you:h5:

[bernie-rx7]

I hope you aren't taking it to that shifty Chris character :)

you'd think I'd have learnt my lesson wouldn't you Cal :(


And thanks John for the well wishes

[2JZR31]

I must have missed this thread in my long PF abstinence. IMO This is up there with the best build threads on PF. Its such a same to see the broken eccentric before the engine could really put some decent rubber down in competition.

Great work Bernie and its good to see you have stuck with it. Can't wait to see this thing in person one day.

[bernie-rx7]

speaking of learning lessons, are you still running it using two seperate ecus and fueled by fuel injectors scattered at various points along the intake tract? :)


No not the exact same setup but similar just an mt2 for the 2 indy blues running methanol infront of the turbo..2 Water mist nozzles infront of the turbo and 4 along the inlet tract only now...as expected the water fuct the mercedes benz injectors eventually, so we pissed them off... 3 direct port indy blues in the rail run off the mt4....

As for learning lessons that wasn't the issue. The issue was the primary fuel avgas going off (sat for 8 months in a drum) that caused the first engine failure (we thought it was just running rich, instead it was just off fuel - even the lawn mower wouldn't run properly on the stuff we drained out of the tank!!!) The misfires eventually twisted the crank and it sheared......IMO the methanol and water injection made it last much longer than it would have otherwise... I'm just going to run premium pump fuel from now on.

oh and the oil starvation issues probabaly didn't help either....

[bernie-rx7]

I must have missed this thread in my long PF abstinence. IMO This is up there with the best build threads on PF. Its such a same to see the broken eccentric before the engine could really put some decent rubber down in competition.

Great work Bernie and its good to see you have stuck with it. Can't wait to see this thing in person one day.

Thanks bro. there we're times when I wanted to simply burn the thing to collect the insurance money......I like to finish things I've started. It might just be fueled by pure ego, I only ever wanted to build a rotor completely different to what every one else has. Its been an expensive and emotional journey.

[2JZR31]

I'm all for being an innovator rather than an imitator. Copying other peoples proven recipes for success may work, but fuck its boring.

[bigmuz]

(Avgas never works well in a low compression, retarded ignition engine like a lawnmower so find another excuse bud!.)

But hopefully you have it nutted out now. Good luck.

[jmac]

I'm half with Muz anyway. One might argue that some of the losses from sitting are the 'lighter' side of the fuel mix, and are those most easy to get the burn started. With them evapped away, it's actually a fraction harder to ignite, and can handle more heat/boost/etc before it'll come close to pre-ignition. It'd be more like it just wasn't making the power (*it'd need a couple of degrees more timing) in general

Believe it or not, David Vizard actually discussed using this deliberately - taking pump fuel (as was mandated) and running air bubbles through it for a while to get rid of some of them, so he could run more compression safely in a fairly strict category. Of course it's not apples to apples, but that's my 2c.

I'd even go as far as to say some older mowers don't like practically any of the modern pump fuel. I'd be speculating as to why, though.

further on that speculation - if you have any of the old fuel still stored (though I can't imagine why) try adding about 2-3% of acetone by volume (a fairly arbitrary rather than scientific figure on my part) and see how it runs in the mower then. Might still work out way cheaper than buying new fuel for the mower.

These indy methanol injectors - what is their flow rate again? (just looking to save the info, incase I manage to get around to finishing some of the projects here)

[bernie-rx7]

yeah 1600cc John as rusty said. I dont have any of the evil avgas left but its good to know that acetone might bring the shit back to life.....for use in the mower...lol

I've been pondering whether to run an M&W CDI for a while now just incase the bosh coils are the weakest link. the more i think about it the more i convince myself that its a good idea to give the spark a kick in the pants too.

[thebluerx7]

mate if ur running that much liquid into the engine u need cdis for sure9if u dont already have them that is.

the cdis will do wonders for ya.bosch coils for me start to miss at low 10's afr with just petrol letalone heaps of water etc goin in there.with my cdis i could run heaps of water injection + 9.8afrs and still not miss until it went 9.5afrs.at 10.5afr with water it was crisp as could be and plugs are brilliant,all combined with 80:1 premix aswell.

go cdis and dont look back.

[Gammaboy]

mate if ur running that much liquid into the engine u need cdis for sure9if u dont already have them that is.

the cdis will do wonders for ya.bosch coils for me start to miss at low 10's afr with just petrol letalone heaps of water etc goin in there.with my cdis i could run heaps of water injection + 9.8afrs and still not miss until it went 9.5afrs.at 10.5afr with water it was crisp as could be and plugs are brilliant,all combined with 80:1 premix aswell.

go cdis and dont look back.
Top marks on writing a really hard to read post.
Any good reason you're running such rich AFRs?

[bernie-rx7]

you can run rotors quite rich gamma....as long as they don't misfire its encouraged to run them as rich as possible to keep engine longevity.

twin rotors will very rarely shear a crank with a huge misfire though....20b cranks are longer therefore easier to twist.

I believe what bluerx7 says is correct if you want to run "safe" rich mixtures for engine longevity.

with the SCR racing seals I have in this motor however you can run quite lean AFR's and get big HP but the seals might not last as long. Its all a bit of a trade off.

[GSRman]

Wouldn't overly rich mixtures wash the lube off the housings? (unless you are running premix)

[bernie-rx7]

Wouldn't overly rich mixtures wash the lube off the housings? (unless you are running premix)

nah you always run premix when things start getting serious

[thebluerx7]

Wouldn't overly rich mixtures wash the lube off the housings? (unless you are running premix)

what do ya think water injection does anyway? it steam cleans ur engine internals clean,so its really not an issue.the engine with premix will always be well lubricated.

bernie,u have shitloads of water injection points,and fuel injectors everywhere.u would definately be running out of spark.

what total mixture percentage of alcohol/water etc are u running on top of fuel.for eg 20% water to air/fuel mixture????

if ur anywhere over 10% then that ignition system wil be compromised,even at 5% some people start getting lazy spark if the water is not very atomized.

just remember,the more water and fuel u can get in there,without compromising spark,the cooelr and more power u will make.

[bernie-rx7]

I agree blue. the M&W CDI is on the shopping list before I start pumping some boost into the thing :)

[2JZR31]

Wouldn't water help with spark since its a conductor and fuel and air isn't?

[bernie-rx7]

???I don't know??? maybe perhaps a scientist can answer that one??

[2JZR31]

:p

[GSRman]

what do ya think water injection does anyway? it steam cleans ur engine internals clean,so its really not an issue.the engine with premix will always be well lubricated.


- as i said.. unless you are running premix..

there is a distinct difference between water injection and methanol injection though.. being that meth will dilute the oil and water wouldn't.

[10sec rx7]

with the SCR racing seals I have in this motor however you can run quite lean AFR's and get big HP but the seals might not last as long. Its all a bit of a trade off.

im telling you now dont run the thing lean with SCR seals and expect it to start off the key easily next time you go to start it....

they are fucking weak as piss and get them a little warm and they will bend like a fucking bannana

[10sec rx7]

if ur anywhere over 10% then that ignition system wil be compromised,even at 5% some people start getting lazy spark if the water is not very atomized.

just remember,the more water and fuel u can get in there,without compromising spark,the cooelr and more power u will make.

i never had a problem burning anything with my standard microtech X4 box and bosch coils... i could run well into the 9.5 afr and 15% water and not a hint of misfire at 20psi boost...

[bernie-rx7]

im telling you now dont run the thing lean with SCR seals and expect it to start off the key easily next time you go to start it....

they are fucking weak as piss and get them a little warm and they will bend like a fucking bannana

I'd like to think they are a little more resilient than the 3mm steels I had in there cause they cost me enough. PTS seals would do the same though....Carbons??

I'm sure as hell not going out of the way to run lean though


i never had a problem burning anything with my standard microtech X4 box and bosch coils... i could run well into the 9.5 afr and 15% water and not a hint of misfire at 20psi boost...

I'm going to give the standard coils one more shot at 12-14 psi...if she starts to break up I'm going CDI....

I've mounted the coils ontop of the engine under the top hat...could latent heat be effecting the performance of the coils??

[10sec rx7]

i use the NRS seals but they are exxy.. the next best would be the rotormaster ones, they have proved them self many times and are in some of the fastest drag cars out there now...

just dont lean on the scr ones and they will be ok, on methenol they are tops..

also run fuck loads of pre mix they are harsh on the housings.

yes heat will effect the coils

[bernie-rx7]

mmm got me thinking of relocating the coils now. was trying to put it off till I have time to sort out my whizbang phil laird manifold and plenum.... what premix ratio would you run?? i currently run about 100/1 or 80/1 two stroke motorbike stuff.

[10sec rx7]

100:1 with motul 800 oil will be ok, if you can run 80:1 with no smoke issues then go for it,

[bernie-rx7]

I thought as much. thanks for the advice :)

[bernie-rx7]

here's a small dyno video on the run-in tune 8psi

http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/th_10122008001.jpg (http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/bernard_elsey/?action=view&current=10122008001.flv)