"Volvo 240 Group A" - Project Big Red Car

[Forg]

Well, since everyone else is whoreing-around their beasties, I think I'll put a few images of mine here as well, even though it's somewhat eclipsed by the likes of what others have done. I'm fairly sure I've posted these photos somewhere before (don't think I would've stuck 'em on PhotoBucket for any other reason), so I apologise if this is a 'repost'. :)

First some spex:

Engine: Pretty much a standard "redblock" Ovlov engine, with a wee bit of head work. Untouched B23E bottom-end with a turbo oil-return welded into the sump, B230FK (I think) 1000531-casting head with a wee bit of porting, standard valveage, and a cam from the USA which is supposed to be more suited to turbocharging than the n/a one I had (same ~12mm lift & 270-odd-degree duration, but 40-degree less overlap than stock).
Custom-made (and slightly warped dammit!) exhaust manifold attached to a GT25 the exact specs of which I forget (I think it might be a GT2535), custom-but-made-for-S14 dump, and a 3" exhaust. MoTeC 2-group 3D ECU controlling it, but I'm going to get a 2-Group expert to look at the idle 'cos it's somewhat piggy to drive at the moment largely because of the idle & dodginess down low (I hope that's possible to fix). Intercooled, in factory 242GLT location. 740T in-tank pump & VL Turbo pressure pump, simple 2-way adjustable manual boost control (@15psi), Bosch -363 injectors with standard Bosch FPR (ditched the Malpassi! yay!). Just about everything that moves in the engine-bay has been reco'd or is new.
Was dyno tuned last Friday, and came up with 128kW & 286Nm at the rears (1:1 4th gear) on SAS's DynoDynamics (although I realise that number doesn't really mean much). Must admit the number is a wee bit disappointing; kinda expected a little more.

Drivetrain: Supra W58 gearbox, standard 3.9:1 diff with TrueTrac Torsen-type LSD conversion.

Brakes: Standard discs all 'round (~260mm vented fronts, unsure of size of unvented rears) although they're new slotted DBA's, reco'd standard calipers (4-spot front, 2-spot rear), Green Stuff pads (can't tell you how they're going yet), everything else standard (it already had appropriate valving for the brake booster to cope with boosty goodness).
A friend is selling reasonably-priced brackets/adapters to fit RX7 calipers & 940T ~280mm front discs so I'm considering that for the future; it's also possible to fit S60R ~300mm front discs & S60R Brembo calipers, although that's a considerably more exxy option. Kinda depends on how the standard things stand-up longer term.

Body: 1979 242GT shell, stripped & resprayed Subaru Impreza MY99 94H Red Mica. 1981+ headlights & indicators & front guards & bumpers, GLE taillights. Simmons F90R 17"x7" rims, 40-series tyres.

Interior: Mostly unfinished. Appropriate-age Recaros needing a retrim, it does have new carpet, I've fitted the majority of a stereo consisting of a Pioneer 12-stacker plus a Rockford 10" sub powered by a Soundstream ~30w RMS amp plus a German brand 4-way ~200W RMS amp I've forgotten the name of running 2 sets of MB-Quart splits.
I've fitted 244GLE power windows & central locking.
The MOMO wood-and-leather wheel & gear-knob matched the age of the car to my eye, and I intend to put a teeny bit of wood trim on the dash to tie-in the wheel & knob. Unsure on trim when I get it done; I think I'll get vinyl on the doortrims & a combo of leather & cloth on the seats (leather's a little too slippery for my liking). Probably dark grey or black.
Oh, and I fitted a later-model (1981+) dash & had it recovered; because it has 5 unused spots for extra 50mm VDO gauges. Unfortunately the recovering means the glovebox doesn't close completely flush, which is a little disappointing.


Some photos:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00032.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00031.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00030.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00029.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00054.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00053.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/DSC00052.jpg

[itsnotagsr]

Love the mud flaps. :)

[Babalouie]

I've always liked your project....tell me, what does it weigh?

[RSWEPN]

Car looks hot :)

any future plans for the motor??

[AxGT]

Looks good Matt,

Will have to show it to my housemate (has a 240 GLE) - will be quite jealous i think.

Ken

[evil_weevil]

love it !!!

[troopa]

The car looks awesome Forg especially those wheels.

You don't mention any work done to the suspension, is this something you plan to do in the future?

Still trying to work out how a 2.3L engine with a GT25XX turbo @ 15psi only make 128kw atw? Have you looked into why the figure is so low?

[XAC15T]

Very nice, would definantly surprise a few people thats for sure :D

[floody]

Gr. A style boot spoiler would look trick? I think there's a crowd in Melbourne making them...

[Chad]

For some strange reason, these volvos are quite attractive as a car... Nice one mr Forg.

Where did the name Forg come from?

[oldenholden64]

Never thought i'd utter the words "thats a nice looking volvo". Well done. Might find yourself short some wheels though ;)

[pisana]

i think it needs a bigger turbo.

any chance the turbo could be a smaller verion of what you think it is? going by those numbers you'd think so.

that aside, the cars looks hot (for a volvo :p)
________
ZOLOFT LAWSUIT SETTLEMENTS (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/zoloft/)

[Forg]

i think it needs a bigger turbo.
any chance the turbo could be a smaller verion of what you think it is?
I'll look at the stampings on the wheels; it's possible it's undersized, but it's probably what I've asked for. Back when I bought it they had "different versions of a GT25" rather than a GT2535 & a GT2528 & a GT2540 etc etc.

Here's the dyno sheet, dunno if it says anything useful ... seems to be a torque drop-off there which may not be optimal:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/BRC_dyno.jpg



You don't mention any work done to the suspension, is this something you plan to do in the future?
No, I just forgot to mention it this morning. :)
She's about 2" lower than standard, didn't want to go lower 'cos she's lower than is comfortable at the moment (need whacky approach angles to the driveway, and the work carpark driveay as well). Spring rates are enfirmened as you'd expect by the lowering, although I've forgotten the details I bought 'em so long ago. 27mm sway bars front & rear, it might be possible I'll need to ensmallen the rear one but only time will tell. Bilstein Sport shocks/inserts, and nolathane bushes all 'round.


Gr. A style boot spoiler would look trick? I think there's a crowd in Melbourne making them...
That'd be a mate of mine. :) However, I don't actually like 'em all that much, I'd prefer without.


I've always liked your project....tell me, what does it weigh?
Too much, although by choice. I decided I wanted all the luxury bits, and it came up as (I think) 1405kg on the RTA's measurometer. Ditch kilos of sound-deadening, use lighter carpet, ditch central-locking & power windows, don't carry around 2 sets of splits & a big sub-box & 2 amps, don't carry a full-sized jack & don't have stupidly overweight Simmons wheels ... I think if I were planning on racing it I could probably lose 200kg without much effort, maybe even 300kg (even the window winders are something like 25kg's worth).


Love the mud flaps.
Thankyou, it took a while to locate a Volvo dealer that still had some new-old stock. :)

[2JZR31]

Nice car. I like the look of ths model.

I reckon the turbo is too small. It looks like its running out of puff before 3500rpm were the torque starts to die in the arse.

[pisana]

I concur with 2JZ, it does drop of quite early, seems a little on the small side though would be pleasant to drive having minimal lag.

Would there much playing around with the ECU if you were to install say a GT28BB or T04 for that matter?

Would a S15 turbo bolt straight up?
________
Vaporite Assembly (http://www.vaporizers.net/)

[out_in_front]

There is a VG30DET turbo in the forsale section at the moment for $300 from memory - Could be a worthy replacement.

[sv_i]

I saw one of these bad boys the other day

http://www.volvofan.at/IMAGES/Volvos/volvohistory/v262c_big.jpg
I think everyone would agree that yours definately looks better.
Nice work Forg.
How's the supra gearbox mate up?

[Forg]

Would there much playing around with the ECU if you were to install say a GT28BB or T04 for that matter?
Yes, it'd need a retune, 'cos it's MAP-sensed & isn't closed-loop.


Would a S15 turbo bolt straight up?
Yes - but I don't think it'd help, 'cos the stock ones are virtually the same as mine. I'd need an embiggened aftermarket one.

I've got many problems to fix apart from the turbo though, and I'm not even 100% sure I could fit a bigger turbo (the current one is very close to the rail at the front). Idle needs major work (wants to stall -> annoying to take-off from standstill or even to drive slowly), and exhaust system is banging against everything & anything so it just feels literally clunky. Plus with the warpage in the exhaust manifold causing ticking noises from the head area (exhaust leak) ...


There is a VG30DET turbo in the forsale section at the moment for $300 from memory - Could be a worthy replacement.
No ball-bearing = Fog Says No. :)

[pisana]

I've got many problems to fix apart from the turbo though, and I'm not even 100% sure I could fit a bigger turbo (the current one is very close to the rail at the front).

:knock:

replace googly eyed smiley with volvo frame rail :yup:
________
The Cliff Condo (http://pattayaluxurycondos.com)

[Sturmovik]

Battery in boot, and mount big fuck off turbo in vacant space. Profit?

[BestBlokeInTheWorld]

Looks good Mat, would be good to gouge out some deeper rutts in that car park of yours so I can get mine in...!

.. darn let out the real reason for monday :)

[edo]

tis a worry...but you may be able to explain the farkin spooky box thing that the Robbie franciveic (sp?) volvo had Morgs has pics I promise.

[Forg]

you may be able to explain the farkin spooky box thing that the Robbie franciveic (sp?) volvo had
Erm - that would be the car itself.


.. darn let out the real reason for monday :)
You just couldn't cope with being sejanus ... :p

[XAC15T]

gt2871r :yup:

[davemw]

I like it Forg, gives me inspiration to fiddle my Volvo.

[Forg]

I like it Forg, gives me inspiration to fiddle my Volvo.
But then your Volvo might take out the resulting personal issues on me!

[Justengt4]

Forg, the IC is killing your hp...they flow like shit. Also, looking at your torque curve i'd say your cam timing might be out a smidge or the cam is just plain wrong for the rest of your setup...it peaks very early and drops off badly, not a cam for top end hp.

Good to see you haven't shucked the volvo fetish...i remember it started way back on auscars 10yrs ago :)

[davemw]

But then your Volvo might take out the resulting personal issues on me!

Be 'ware, it's swedish.

[floody]

Actually the suggestion someone made about Jon's VG turbo isn't a bad one, though it is T3 flange/T28 style dump flange (but 90 degrees different) so substantial reengineering would probably be required to make it mount up...

Also it looks the same as my VG30DET turbo, which is bb core.
If its got "OP6" on the housings its definitely BB, likewise a little hex head bolt near the water connection. Its only real early VG30ET and DET ones (Z31 300ZX and F31 leopard) which are plain bearing. Best information I can gather is marginally bigger than a RB25 turbo's exhaust side, but slightly smaller on the comp side.

These turbos are supposed to be fairly unstressed into the ~180rwkw area on a 2 litre. A friend here has one on an otherwise basically stock RB20DET (including stock intercooler, ecu, injectors) which is making in the mid 140kw range with about 11psi. Good turbo for a 2 litreish motor.

Anyway...

[Forg]

Forg, the IC is killing your hp...they flow like shit.
I ain't using the stocker no more; the one I've got is greatly embiggened over the standard one, and should be OK.


Also, looking at your torque curve i'd say your cam timing might be out a smidge or the cam is just plain wrong for the rest of your setup...it peaks very early and drops off badly, not a cam for top end hp.
Interesting, 'cos I do have an adjustable wheel, and they only charged me ~$600 for the dyno-time which seems fairly cheap considering all the variables I would've thought were involved with cam-timing adjustability.

Do you not think that torque-curve could be the result of strangulation by the undersized turbo? Not that the turbo is going to get changed for at least a couple of years, I'm not going to stick $2k into the car in that area until I've got a lot of other things finished &/or sorted.

And yeah; I remember talking to you ages ago about RWD Celica manifolds & how they were set-up (for potentially sticking on a 2.0 Pinto). :)

[bigmuz]

Car looks mint mate. Excellent.

Needs a turbo. DD are generous dynos so that is probably 100 kw atw, which isn't that special. I woulda thought 150 for what it is without too much hassle.

Don't worry about BB versus bush. Just bung on a big un and have some fun :D

[tortfeaser]

Looks the goods. Top effort that.

Where do you get the heatshield blanket stuff that's on the firewall?

[2JZR31]

Don't worry about BB versus bush. Just bung on a big un and have some fun

I concur.

[GTREA]

I Must admit im a bit of a closet fan of the Volvo's:O

Yours is a great example Forg ;)

But if I did ever buy one....and I could...for some strange reason it would have to be a wagon....and I don't know why!

Maybe this had something to do with it..?

http://www.hueging.com/t5r/images/volvo16.jpg

[ScortFreak]

... Nice. :D

[Spammy]

Good work Forg....I rarely have good things to say about Volvos but your car looks smick.

[Justengt4]

I ain't using the stocker no more; the one I've got is greatly embiggened over the standard one, and should be OK.

Interesting, 'cos I do have an adjustable wheel, and they only charged me ~$600 for the dyno-time which seems fairly cheap considering all the variables I would've thought were involved with cam-timing adjustability.

Do you not think that torque-curve could be the result of strangulation by the undersized turbo? Not that the turbo is going to get changed for at least a couple of years, I'm not going to stick $2k into the car in that area until I've got a lot of other things finished &/or sorted.

And yeah; I remember talking to you ages ago about RWD Celica manifolds & how they were set-up (for potentially sticking on a 2.0 Pinto). :)

Good news on the FMIC then, the stock approx 45mm thick one look large but flow crap.

I can't see a GT2535 being that restrictive. I had a GT2540 on one of my GrpA GT4s and it laid down an easy 211awkw with plenty left in it. The '35' has the smaller turbine housing than the '40' so won't be too far behind. Ballpark the '35' will flow 350hp and the '40' 400hp so your turbo should still be easy good for 200rwkw? My vote is still cam timing or simple the spec cam.

The cams in my TTUZ kill top end as they are for a luxo barge and all about seemless low end torque. A turbo pushing more airflow can only do so much. My dyno curve is similar to yours and with a mild change in cam i could easily add another 80kw or so. If you can easilt adjust the cam timing this is something i would be looking into.

What are the current cam timing specs?

[psi999]

My 200sx had a GT2535 and made 195rwkw on 16psi boost.... would have easily cracked 200rwkw on 18-19psi.

Should really upgrade that old Motec to a Microtech Forg, your ECU related problems will disappear overnight….. Or even a 2nd hand Haltech E6X or Autronic SMC.

[Forg]

Should really upgrade that old Motec to a Microtech Forg
My 15yo MoTeC has similar functionality to a new µTech ... no thanks! :p
Seriously though, I have considered getting an M4Pro or some-such, but all I gain are a couple of extra inputs & some idle parameters, and I really don't want to pull the dash apart again to get in there.

[bigmuz]

And a processor made in the age of pentium computers- that's right! Pentium!!!!11

[Forg]

I doubt my ECU has anything as advanced/fancy/ricey as that. I can't remember what it is, but I think it may have been from the Mac-innards Motorola family; I do know it was 32-bit back when the opposition were 8-bit, but you just don't need serious processing power to run a car (putting aside all the pollution concerns which probably are CPU-intensive these days). You could probably just about get some Yr12 maths whiz sitting in the passenger seat with a calculator punching numbers into the bus & get just about as good a result ... :)

[Forg]

Here's the dyno sheet, dunno if it says anything useful ... seems to be a torque drop-off there which may not be optimal:
http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/BRC_dyno.jpg

"Oops, we didn't realise [forgot] you needed the cam timing adjusted and it could be 467.3° out"
Hopefully actually setting the cam location & retuning will fix my drives-like-a-pig issues & net me more power ... although I have a nasty suspicion that my idle problems just won't be fixable given a lightened flywheel & 12mm valve lift & head porting & MAP-sensing & the main things being different between my ECU & newer ones being [in]ability to set as many idle parameters.

[bugle]

Look shmick, but where's the hat?

[MR 1JZ]

that is tough man...PF really is home to some of the toughest cars in australia...

[Forg]

Look shmick, but where's the hat?
Parcel-shelf hasn't been carpeted yet; I tried to, but failed somewhat dismally. When the trimmer does it, I'm getting some clips attached so I can firmly affix the bowls hat & it won't go flying around the car in the event of an emergency stop. I'd sew it in, but that's a little too permanent (those things tend to fall apart in the sun, the last one I had only lasted ~3yrs).

[Forg]

"Oops, we didn't realise [forgot] you needed the cam timing adjusted and it could be 467.3° out"
OK, I've just spaken unto the dyno people; the cam was about 30 degrees out!
So where it was driving like a pig & down on power (IMHO), it now peaks at ~170kW at the rears on the same dyno where it did 128kW previously. It's blown a rear cam seal in the process, so I can't say what it drives like yet, but hopefully it'll be less of a pig.
Apparently the idle is now worse mind you ...

[Justengt4]

Good to hear Forg, well except for the blown seal part (RSPCA could be onto you for that)....will gratefully recieve my kudos in any form you deem appropriate :)

[hotgemini]

Bump, updates.

[jzx83]

Holy crap, thats a blast from the past. But yeah looked really good for an ovloV, cleaned up real nice. From memory, Forg was trying to do some sort of headwork at some extended period of time over the last 3 years since his last post in the thread.

Shouldn't this be in PF Street Cars though.

[takai]

It is in PF Street Cars

[jzx83]

Haha

Nice one Chris.

[Forg]

Ah, I now see why I got that PM about the M4 Pro for sale!
It may not initially have been obvious that I mentioned such things 3-4 years ago ... :)

I've managed to get the car to idle, which had previously been my biggest issue with the ECU. Only thing is it seems to need to be ridiculously rich in order to idle properly; I've fitted an oxy-sensor & logger since I last posted anything here. Mind you, the main reason for doing that was it was cheaper than getting the car re-tuned with the head that's on it at the moment ...

Since I last posted, I had some rally interesting ticking noises appear, pulling the cam-cover off showed some, erm, "interesting" camshaft wear. Bugger-bugger-bugger, head off, get recommendations from a RWD Volvo specialist workshop on someone who could do a rebuild of the head I had; he allegedly measured it all up & rebuilt properly (it wasn't a cut-price job), then I had a higher-performance cam than previously tried fitted (which cost me ~$500 I might add - from a Volvo workshop in Sweden, and everything should've been right to work with standard valves, followers, springs etc).

During the run-in ... on the 2nd back-down from a set of revs, tick-tick-tick-squeak.

If you consider this was brand-new under 10 minutes ago, and the head design involves the buckets sitting in a bath of oil, this was pretty dire:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k124/originalForg/LobePoint.jpg

I thought maybe the problem was oil, so I've been running a standard head with a standard cam for over a year now; and there's no sign of wear. So the problem was the posessed head, no doubt about it. So I'm currently driving around with the car tuned myself, being somewhat careful with it; I don't want to spend money getting someone who knows what they're doing to do it properlyI'm intending to get a better head with a much better cam fitted.

There're two basic styles of "redblock" heads which are best suited to turbocharging, one flows better & is the one to start any work with. They're a bit rarer, and I've got one of those awaiting some valves coming from the USA ... which I'd just have written-off by now if I'd not already paid for them 6 months ago. Hopefully they'll arrive in about 3 weeks, then I can get the head rebuilt & then tune it properly & then finally think about the interior ...

[bigmuz]

Ahhhhhhh; The student has become the master.

Excellent. This is what we were waiting for!

Just be confident in what you have learned and extrapolate.