Klampys VR Moooootututu V6 question thread

[klampykixx]

Well here it is. My commodore. in all its mangtastic glory.

Name: Brendan aka Klampy
Age: currently 25.

Ride: 1994 VR executive sedan
Engine: 3.8 Buick Moo.
Trans: originally T5, now toyota corona 4speed.
Diff: rebuilt VN live axle, with VLT LSD center 3.9 gears (skylineR31)
Suspension: Kingspring superlows allround, each with two coils removed for that super Moar low look.
Whiteline 30mm front and 22mm rear swaybars
nolathane everything + k-mac front camber kit

engine mods:
VN ACL duralite pistons 40tho oversize
stock rods and crank but fully balanced
ACL Raceseries bearings all through.
ARP head studs, main cap studs, rod bolts.
Crow custom grind: Lobe separation: 114
.050 VALVE TIMING:
| Inlet opens: -7 BTDC Closes: 39 ABDC .050 Duration: 213 |
| Exhaust Opens: 47 BBDC Closes: -3 ATDC .050 Duration: 223 |
Manley Severe duty valves (std size with undercut shank and "swirl" polished)
crow double springs ,collets and retainers
Home done port job, smoothed bowls and ports opened up to gasket size, manifold opened up to the same size and continued into plenum.

Fuel: Siemens Deka 840cc injectors, bosch 044 pump, Turbosmart FPR800
exhaust: Currently nothing, but have got plans sorted.
Turbo: T70 +w2a intercooler.

Brakes: slotted DBA discs with Bendix pads. (nothing special but they work well)

thats all i can think of at the moment. im sure theres more but for now, pics!

from this

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/07-01-09_1218.jpg

to this

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/07-08-09_1714.jpg

and then to this

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/IMG_3497.jpg

then i broke the timing chain. and its been sitting and slowly coming back together.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/10032011610.jpg

and now it looks like this.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/10052011762.jpg

[klampykixx]

So talking about gearboxes. been told to use a T56 instead.

whats the rough max power handling of the w40?

whats the weak point that makes them so apparently shit? gears bearings synchros?

why wouldnt /shouldnt i spend money on dog gears VS doing a t56 conversion?

what makes a stock T56 so much better?

[lysdexia]

is a w40 like a w58 with less gears..?

[klampykixx]

yea, 4speed corona box is a W40 apparently.

[Lonx]

inonjuan.

[Jim]

You won't break a W40 with a moo motor. I ran one behind a 7MGTE in a 1500kg Crown and it was fine. 5th gear is the weak point and they didn't fit them to 4sp's :p

Fuck that front looks ugly :lol:

[rowdytoot]

As i said in the webberbox- the T56 conversion will run you at least 5 grand, probably more.. clutch, tailshaft, bellhousing, xmember etc etc... Mal Wood do a kit with a reco box, and it ends up being ~ 8 K + fitting.

the cheaper solution is to stick with a t5 and get a dog box from http://www.gforcetransmissions.com/

Jim- i suspect the moo is going to be very very turbo shortly...

[klampykixx]

ok, so at least 5 grand for a T56 conversion.

how will that compare to PPG dog gears in the W40?

when i spoke to PPG about putting dog gears in the T5 they only rated them at 250hp. and that is no where near what im going to need. even PPG said the stock w40 was better than a dogged T5 for my application.

im not against doing any sort of upgrade, i just cant afford to right now. so im always after the best value for money upgrades.

[rowdytoot]

thats funny cos PPG dog gear boxes are run in saloon cars with far more than that power all the time.. (but do need rebuilding regularly. I know a dude with a T5 with needham straight cut gears in his V8 'coon rally car ( 200 + rwKw), and that box lives fine, but I guess you're going for a lot more grunt than that!

if you're going to have serious power, then get a jerico...will be even less cheap than a T56, but it'll be lighter and better.

[ga70tt]

is a supra w58 going to be stronger and interchangeable with the w40?

[klampykixx]

heres a pic of the box. not that it matters, just like pics.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/09052011745.jpg

and one with the turbo on top.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/27032011683.jpg

[Coffin]

I like how you have made it blend in with all the other commodores with the aesthetics! well done!

Buy a T56 from this dude in WA, Mr Ed will be able to give you further details, but he does a good deal.

Moo engines are bad, ... I felt bad selling one on eBay for $50, so the next one I had I gave away for free, .. it was still running and came with a free car with rego!! .... Speak to DynoRogerRyder, he apparently knows all about them!!

In all seriousness, I like the turbo idea :)

[Jim]

Even with the turbo you wont break the W40 until you're pushing 200kw at the wheels.
Coffin, it still has lobsterparty chips on the floor :lol:

[klampykixx]

so im aiming at 400hp which is exactly 298.279 948 kilowatts atw.

[klampykixx]

and what are lobsterparty chips?

[Coffin]

lobsterparty chips = im guessing chips .... and decayed pieces of raw fish maybe

[Jim]

good luck with getting that much power out of a moo. do-able but 4x the cost of an LS1 and very fragile.

Yeah leftover bucks party debris lol
there's a tin of glen20 chained to the keyring haha

[klampykixx]

more pics.

then

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/07-07-09_1310.jpg

now. dont mind the abortion of a manifold, its not staying like that.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/09052011748.jpg

[Jim]

hah! looks epic :D

[klampykixx]

good luck with getting that much power out of a moo. do-able but 4x the cost of an LS1 and very fragile.


theres a fellow in NZ with a Stock VN series1 V6 motor, all it has is a small cam, 300000 kays, and a big fuel system and turbo doing 11 second 1/4miles. gtech says 440hp atw. on about 18psi. no broken motors yet, n its been doing it for a few years now......


Yeah leftover bucks party debris lol
there's a tin of glen20 chained to the keyring haha

what are you talking about?

[klampykixx]

clicky clicky the linky. its a vid of the drift day before i broke the timing chain. just thought you might like to hear mangtastic mooness.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/th_M2U00238.jpg (http://s930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/?action=view&current=M2U00238.mp4)

[Jim]

We managed 12.4 on a stock series 1 VN on NOS so far but holed two pistons due to bad setup lol

Good luck with it! I'm not saying it can't be done. It can. The question is how repeatable it is going to be.

Coffin gave me and UNCLE a VP for free because it was used for a bucks party and was full of old chips beer cans and apparenty a large piece of fish and it fucking stank. I drove it back from canberra :lol:

[klampykixx]

got camber?

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/20042011716.jpg

and a photochopped pic of what the bar will approximately look like.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/klampykixx-sedan-00.jpg

[klampykixx]

We managed 12.4 on a stock series 1 VN on NOS so far but holed two pistons due to bad setup lol

Good luck with it! I'm not saying it can't be done. It can. The question is how repeatable it is going to be.

Coffin gave me and UNCLE a VP for free because it was used for a bucks party and was full of old chips beer cans and apparenty a large piece of fish and it fucking stank. I drove it back from canberra :lol:

yea, anything can be done really, but as you said, repeatability is the key.

i understand about the lobsterchips now... thats rank. lol.

[<---cop]

I like the southern cross sticker and the bridgestone sticker on the windscreen.
Maybe keep them and sell the rest and buy a stock original VR to work on?

Have you met Murray yet?

[Jim]

I like the southern cross sticker and the bridgestone sticker on the windscreen.
Maybe keep them and sell the rest and buy a stock original VR to work on?

Have you met Murray yet?

Don't be a dick. It'll be fast and he's actually building it unlike that other VR owner

[<---cop]

Just sayin' if I was building a turbo moo I'd want to put it in a plain jane stock looking invisible shopping trolley. Especially in a country town. Not something with fully bodykits, hellaflush camber and rollin' on 20s with windscreen stickers. Maybe I'm weird.

[klampykixx]

its not a street car if that matters?

why fully bodykits, hellaflush camber and rollin' on 20s with windscreen stickers?
cause racecar!

[klampykixx]

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/th_M2U00243.jpg (http://s930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/?action=view&current=M2U00243.mp4)

clicky click

[klampykixx]

Don't be a dick. It'll be fast and he's actually building it unlike that other VR owner

whos that "other" VR owner? is there a thread?

[klampykixx]

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/post-88537-1259698221511281023.jpg

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/post-88537-1259698264111068988.jpg

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/IMG_3497.jpg

[ga70tt]

TBH i dont really understand why you would want/need 400hp for drifting round ralleigh raceway...

would of thought it would be far to tight for that much power...

[klampykixx]

yea, ur probably right, but i dont want to limit myself to raleigh for ever.... and my aim for the 400hp is more for bragging rights really.... honestly, my initial aim was 300hp. but then i saw other people with less mods than mine pulling 350-380 hp on 12-15psi. so i reckon 400hp is more than achievable.

ultimately, if i can get into 4th, and spool up and spin the wheels then i have enough power. and id be happy with that. at the end of the day, the dyno figure is just that. how it delivers the power is the important part.

[Tirlista]

Is this big muz's AE?

[klampykixx]

I have an exhaust question.

my turbo has a 3inch outlet. will be better off keeping it to 3" piping, or will it be ok to split it with a 3"-2x 2.5" collector and run twin 2.5" pipes?

if its better to split it, is there a minimum distance i should keep it away from the turbo outlet?

and is it better to encourage the spiral out of the turbine or try and keep it straight?

[Mr Ed]

Cross-sectional area of a twin 2.5" system is bigger than a 3" system so it will be better. Dont worry too much about spirals/backpressure/etc it will mean fuck all on a turbo system. Less bends is better.

[ga70tt]

if this isnt going to be road registered then whynot just go 3inch > 3.5in then side pipe it and be done...

[klampykixx]

excellent. nice to see a straight, no bullshit answer for once. i guess i know what ill be aiming at with my exhaust then.

[klampykixx]

if this isnt going to be road registered then whynot just go 3inch > 3.5in then side pipe it and be done...

thats pretty much the plan. just not really enough groud clearance for a 3.5" pipe. so 2.5 is better for me. and i already own a length of 2.5 inch pipe, and a length of 3"

[Bermo]

I like this.

Re: exhaust why not go 3.5" -> dual 2" to save ground clearance?

[klampykixx]

I like this.

Re: exhaust why not go 3.5" -> dual 2" to save ground clearance?

sure, thats a great idea, why didnt i think of that?

[klampykixx]

B/W T5 Commodore Saloon Car str-cut (synchro) $4,235 3.252 / 1.773 / 1.287 / 1.000 / std

Toyota Supra (W series) 5 speed str-cut (dog box) $8,250 2.80 / 1.84 / 1.33 / 1.00 / 0.86

obviously a supra gear set, but why is it double the price for the toyota stuff? far out!


this is PPG gearsets pricing...

[Suscunt]

Just go 3.5 straight through the guard

http://www.hoskingindustries.com.au/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/che1.jpg

[klampykixx]

how do ya reckon id go with a pipe like that at the drifts?

[Suscunt]

If theres is flame i will cheer...
HTH

[Jim]

Here's what we have done:
http://performanceforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=67262328

[rowdytoot]

B/W T5 Commodore Saloon Car str-cut (synchro) $4,235 3.252 / 1.773 / 1.287 / 1.000 / std

Toyota Supra (W series) 5 speed str-cut (dog box) $8,250 2.80 / 1.84 / 1.33 / 1.00 / 0.86

obviously a supra gear set, but why is it double the price for the toyota stuff? far out!


this is PPG gearsets pricing...

\
cos it's a dog gear set, and the saloon car is synchro and they probably sell a comparative shitload of saloon car gearsets.

[klampykixx]

so next question, in a water 2 air intercooler system, without ice, or airconditioned core, will the water in the system only ever be as cold as the ambient air? or will it be able to cool below ambient with a big/efficient enough heat exchanger?

[Suscunt]

just go big air to air, easier and safer

[klampykixx]

its actually not going to be easier, my turbo will be sitting on top of my gearbox, the throttle body is on the rear of the motor, all its going to take is a couple of bends and joiners and it will work,
where as a fmic, will need piping down the chassis to the front bar, and then back up the chassis to the throttle body, which would require a flipped throttle body, otherwise the cold piping will be even longer again to run back up to the P/side of the motor.....

even if the turbo went in the normal spot, id still have to finish the custom plenum to flip the throttle or deal with longer than neccessary cold piping. so this way, its super short piping, tiny IC capacity which will result in much better transient response.

[<---cop]

Your turbo is going to be where?!?

[klampykixx]

Your turbo is going to be where?!?

here we go....

on top of the gearbox. under a modified transmission tunnel.


its rudimentary, but heres a pic for those who cant imagine it.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/Paint%20dot%20NET%20images/turbosetup3.jpg

[klampykixx]

*puts on flame suit*

[rorge]

so next question, in a water 2 air intercooler system, without ice, or airconditioned core, will the water in the system only ever be as cold as the ambient air? or will it be able to cool below ambient with a big/efficient enough heat exchanger?

From my limited experience with Subaru RS liberty water to air coolers it can cool to below ambient temp when on full cycle etc. There are also things like Redline water wetter etc that you can use to further cool below ambient too

[klampykixx]

ok, thats some good info there.

iv been told that if i get it too cold it will cause condensation inside the piping, will this affect the motor at all?

[Suscunt]

That makes sence then just go a big unit if you can fit it, look in seanjus rx7 thread I think it was for the big cunt Dale installed recently

[klampykixx]

http://www.frozenboost.com/product_info.php?cPath=216&products_id=1006&osCsid=381143c6b4154b60d0988ff5d60083bb

good?

http://www.siliconeintakes.com//images/product/water_air_kit_1_picture.jpg

Iv also got an Aircon condensor i can use in series with this, its already mounted in my boot and a big fan mounted on it, and it scoops air from a hole in my spare wheel well

[crack]

50160

To compliment your gay body kit why don't you install a Race Car Seat Fucking Machine?

Shaft revoutions on a Race Car transform to fucking strokes of dildo mechanism for anal pleasure.

[klampykixx]

Hmmmm, anal pleasures considered.

[Jim]

Why put the turbo there? Cut a hole in the passenger floor and fit it straight onto the end of the existing exhaust flange. Use another power steer pump as a turbo oil system. Run a front mount air to air with long pipes. easy and cheap.

FWIW throttle response and lag will be shit. There's a reason why turbos get fitted in the engine bay of track cars.

[klampykixx]

can you go into a bit more detail as to why a tuned pipe manifold would yeild less response to a standard manifold flange? and why short cold piping with a small intercooler core would be less responsive than a fmic with a much bigger core?

my logic may be wrong, but to me it sounds like doing it the way you just suggested, is so much more effort than even my way is... why the extra pump? the engine has enough pressure and oil supply to feed the turbo and it will be high enough to not need a scavenge pump....

am i correct in this?

[Jim]

Can you go into a bit more detail why you want the turbo in the cabin and not behind or in front of the motor where there is also plenty of room?
My way is less work as you can use stock extractors.

[klampykixx]

im also going to be using "off the shelf" extractors.

ill tell you my story.

i had built one header (of two) but i designed it badly so i thought with my tax return i could buy some "proper" turbo headers. but then i started to look into what was actually available for my car. and the answer is not much.

i have available to me, Proflow, boost obsession or custom. all costing about $1200-$1800.

Proflow having figures to back them up, but a log style header. @ $1200
B.O. having a prettier long runner style. @ $1500

so i thought, would it make that much difference, so i started researching different desgins and the general answer is, where you can fit it, longer, tuned, equal length headers will always yeild better power figures than a similar short runner/log/unequal length header.

Most of the turbo headers available, are about 38mm primaries into 50mm secondaries.

im looking at Pacemaker comp headers, 41mm primaries into 62mm secondaries.

Im going to mount the pacemakers on to the motor, and off the end of them, turn up and into the center and mount the turbo on the end, which happens to be on top of the gearbox. The turbo is a T70 with a splitpulse housing, so knowing that the V6Moo like to run a true split exhaust, i thought it would be better to keep it that way.

so im getting $1600 tax back.
pacemakers i can get for $350.
I can get a pair of wastegates for $120.
and the W2A IC kit for $300.

thats all the pieces i need that i dont already have in my posession. so total, $770. for a setup, that IN THEORY, should work better than a "typical" underbonnet setup for only a small amount more effort.

and i say small, coz IM doing the work, and im not cutting and chopping pipe to run around the front of the car and back, im just doing it from my dash to the TB, which is barely 12inches away and the IC will take up most of that space.

yes ill have to cut the floor, but that not a problem to me. and once its cut, i can actually put in extra strength by bracing the hole before i put a lid on it...



and lastly, with my left over money, i can buy the tools that i need and a bunch of other parts i still need for the car that i wouldnt otherwise have been able to afford.

[dynoryder]

pwr makes a water to air for turbos they say it's if not as good it's better than a air to air it's a cylinder shape i also thought to my self that if methalated sprits was used (dangerous) it would be even cooler

the turbo would be better mounted to the front of the engine for many reasons but water to air seems the best option and has less lag

[dynoryder]

=klampykixx but then i started to look into what was actually available for my car. and the answer is not much.




saddley that is the case with these engines as they were only used from 1991-1995

[klampykixx]

metho dangerous coz its mega flammable yea?

[<---cop]

You two posting in the same thread?

SUBSCRIBED!!!1!!1!

[dynoryder]

, so knowing that the V6Moo like to run a true split exhaust, .



how did you figure this

[klampykixx]

well i dont know for a fact, but alot of people run full twin exhaust systems, twin turbo systems, twin plenum manifolds n such. and all comment that they seem to work better compared to merging it all.

something to do with treating them like a twin 3cylinder instead of a 6cylinder.

i might be wrong... stranger things have happened.

[dynoryder]

the only advantage of what you said was twin turbos as they spool up quiker

[klampykixx]

yea, but dont push as much power as a big single does.

and its not like im going to be putting around the drift track is it....

[Jim]

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/i%27m%20out%20of%20here/grand/514554959.gif

[klampykixx]

so the people that convert from twin turbo to a big single are all wrong then?

[peal]

Bit too harsh.

Mate, save your money and don't fucking bother.

[klampykixx]

Bit too harsh.

Mate, save your money and don't fucking bother.

Really? thats what you bring to the table?

[crack]

dyno and klampy, keep the discussion going guys. lots of good ideas coming out. subscribed.

[ahabthearab]

Wouldn't dropping an Ls1 in be easier, cheaper, better, less gaids induced?

[peal]

50160

to compliment your gay body kit why don't you install a race car seat fucking machine?

Shaft revoutions on a race car transform to fucking strokes of dildo mechanism for anal pleasure.

lol!

[klampykixx]

an LS1 conversion will easily coz another 10g+ no thanks.

[klampykixx]

so twin turbo conversion? coming from someone who thinks you can just flip the stock manifolds, i think ill be sticking to my plan. but thanks for the suggestion.

[motoxray]

I thought these were interesting back in the day:

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a428/motoxray/V6/v6tt-intake7.jpg

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a428/motoxray/V6/v6tt-3.jpg

http://i1034.photobucket.com/albums/a428/motoxray/V6/v6tt-2.jpg

They were from a seppo website iirc.

[Forg Dammit]

sideways mooooooootutututu?

already been done.

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/8080/88enginecompartment.jpg

HTH

[klampykixx]

Im moving on. couldnt care less that you think im a "roger" whatever, if my car is shit when its done then so be it. at least its shit that i built myself.

will straight turbo back pipe be louder than 95dB?

[GTREA]

Driving / Drifting lessons > more power at this stage.....?

[klampykixx]

does a first place in the competition i entered count for anything? fuck.

[GTREA]

does a first place in the competition i entered count for anything? fuck.

I won a First prize in a Kellogs competition I once entered....got a bike :yup:

Drifting? (http://s930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/?action=view&current=M2U00238.mp4#!oZZ42QQcurrentZZhttp%3A%2F%2 Fs930.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fad150%2Fklampykix x%2FVR%2520drift%2520car%2F%3Faction%3Dview%26curr ent%3DM2U00193.mp4)

[klampykixx]

ah i see. for your information. that was my FIRST EVER time on the track.

i dont need to defend myself against inconsiderate fuckwits like you. get out of my thread.

you think youre so tough dont you.

[NickZ]

im running a T70 with a .83 rear, left side of the motor and the right manifold crosses over at the front of the engine, ive use log manifolds swapped sides and ends modded to suit the piping and turbo mount.
3" pipe from turbo to back wheel side pipe with one 3" hotdog.


its laggy, starts making boost around 3000rpm and full boost at about 3500rpm 14psi boost.
its quiet at idle and low revs with the hotdog im also running external gate with screamer pipe.

Im making 300hp ATW, 660cc injectors and a Microtech ecu and throttlebody is moved to the front of the manifold.

Just some general information for you.

[klampykixx]

why is it so laggy? what manifolds have you got?

[NickZ]

i used the VN stainless steel stock log manifolds.
want to change the turbo for a Ball Bearing and maybe smaller compressor.
the rear housing maybe too small as it stops making power at 5500rpm

[<---cop]

im running a T70 with a .83 rear, left side of the motor and the right manifold crosses over at the front of the engine, ive use log manifolds swapped sides and ends modded to suit the piping and turbo mount.


why is it so laggy? what manifolds have you got?

http://izismile.com/img/img3/20100805/1000/hilarious_gif_images_19.gif

[klampykixx]

i used the VN stainless steel stock log manifolds.
want to change the turbo for a Ball Bearing and maybe smaller compressor.
the rear housing maybe too small as it stops making power at 5500rpm

IMHO, i think its those nasty steel manifolds making it so laggy and restricting your power range.

i have seen the T70 on a stock engine make 440HP right up to 6500rpm.

[dynoryder]

.

[Peter...]

.

[klampykixx]

so decided to have a look to see what footage of myself i actually have. this is all i found, its the practice day before the comp i entered, of which i came 1st in street class and i think i was 5th or 6th overall.

dont mind the redneck behind the camera, hes friends with the dude in the silvia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98-_soJYyvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3qA9YMi3s

[2510s]

http://izismile.com/img/img3/20100805/1000/hilarious_gif_images_19.gif

hahahahahaha what a creepy cunt

[SuperDave]

so decided to have a look to see what footage of myself i actually have. this is all i found, its the practice day before the comp i entered, of which i came 1st in street class and i think i was 5th or 6th overall.

dont mind the redneck behind the camera, hes friends with the dude in the silvia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98-_soJYyvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3qA9YMi3s

Same film crew as the Blair Witch Project?

[crack]

some food for thought mate

50201

[klampykixx]

im impressed. thats exactly how my moo will work. I appreciate the time it must have took you.

im also impressed that i cant see the crayon marks. and that its not smudged at all, since licking glass improves saliva production.

[<---cop]

some food for thought mate

50201

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/2/71fa73072c085b2df9ce0330423f39cd.gif

[hrt5l]

some food for thought mate

50201

:rotflol: love your work

[klampykixx]

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqYOKjIE4k,j9B6eBOK4dPmQ7g~~_12.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqEOKj0E4f)9R54MBOK4dSI4Mw~~_12.JPG

comitted to this today.

incase anyone was wondering......

[Marv]

metho dangerous coz its mega flammable yea?

No, because it will attract aboriginals who will steal your car and use it as a centrepiece for their corroborree, dancing around its burning remains while chugging your precious metho.

Don't support their habit, Klampy.

[klampykixx]

so twin screamer pipes or merge them into a single?

[klampykixx]

so today i rang pacemaker. and i must have gotten a different fella from the last call. he said to me, my logic is correct. equal piping, longer flowing pipes, equal lengths, all will promote good spool times. he even said that the pipes will turn clear from heat and they still wont sag or droop, as long as they're not supporting the weight of the turbo. (which they wouldnt be.)

what he did go on to say tho, is he would recommend wrapping them for sure. but. to be aware that under the extreme heat cycles id be putting them through it will drastically shorten their usable life. he said, on an NA motor with wrapped pacies, they last around a year (daily driven) before they start to show signs of wear and up to three-four years until they're replaced. he said to me with the turbo heat, its going to be alot more, and as a direct comparison might get the equivalent of 8-12 months daily drive time with them before theyre completely stuffed and falling apart.

he said they'll start to go powdery and start cracking everywhere, and when they do, its time to replace them or they'll just disintegrate.

he suggested if i treat them as a consumable in the system, and be aware they're not going to have a long long lifespan, that they would certainly work the way im expecting them to.

and iv been racking this over my mind all afternoon trying to estimate how long it would take me to go through the same value of pacemakers as a set of proflow headers.

and also, on top of that thought^, im about 90% sure that if i actually get this boosting and up there in the power figures, that my pistons arent going to last long. as admittedly, when i snapped the timing chain and bent valves, it dented 3 of my pistons and those dents are going to cause hotspots. i can feel it. murphys law.....

so in the back of my mind, with that thought in mind, if i do break the motor internally, that ill go back to wrecker specials until i can afford to forge a new bottom end. and maybe stroked. but thats another story for another day.....

[clutch-monkey]

so today i rang pacemaker. and i must have gotten a different fella from the last call. he said to me, my logic is correct. equal piping, longer flowing pipes, equal lengths, all will promote good spool times. he even said that the pipes will turn clear from heat and they still wont sag or droop, as long as they're not supporting the weight of the turbo. (which they wouldnt be.)

what he did go on to say tho, is he would recommend wrapping them for sure. but. to be aware that under the extreme heat cycles id be putting them through it will drastically shorten their usable life. he said, on an NA motor with wrapped pacies, they last around a year (daily driven) before they start to show signs of wear and up to three-four years until they're replaced. he said to me with the turbo heat, its going to be alot more, and as a direct comparison might get the equivalent of 8-12 months daily drive time with them before theyre completely stuffed and falling apart.

he said they'll start to go powdery and start cracking everywhere, and when they do, its time to replace them or they'll just disintegrate.

he suggested if i treat them as a consumable in the system, and be aware they're not going to have a long long lifespan, that they would certainly work the way im expecting them to.
would getting them ceramic coated help at all?

[klampykixx]

i did ask that, and he said he couldnt be sure and he thought that the ceramic coat would peel off? does that sound right?

[clutch-monkey]

on my extractors (due to the shit tune, was running hot) the aluminium melted out of the coating, so yeah it can flake off and be fucked. but the stuff they put on turbo housings would do the job surely.

[klampykixx]

yea, the black turbo coating is what id consider having done. on the headers and the turbine housing.

so will that help as far as keeping the metal temps under the "extreme" level

[dynoryder]

run a single system the pulses will be more in the single so better evacuation

ceramic coating keeps heat in the pipe so the gases stay hot = better evacuation

[klampykixx]

run a single system the pulses will be more in the single so better evacuation

so then why do people get so excited about keeping the system spilt pulse to increase spool and turbine speeds?


ceramic coating keeps heat in the pipe so the gases stay hot = better evacuation

sure does.

[dynoryder]

the turbo can still be split pulse with the cat bact being single

[klampykixx]

im not running a cat back. turbo will be 3inch out of the housing and then split into twin 3inch pipes and spat out behind the front wheel.

[klampykixx]

so how much temp reduction can be had with jet hot or hpc coatings?

[dynoryder]

okay if you using short pipes then the scavenge wont mean sweet fuck all of a bees dick

but you dont want heat reduction you want the exuast to stay real hot thats why you insulate just thermo tape the pipes but if you want a clean look then coat but you would want some good extractors to be coated

[klampykixx]

what? are you serious? for reals?

heat reduction, as in reducing the heat transfer to the metal, meaning more heat inside the pipes and less to radiate to the engine bay.

and the bigger the pressure ratio between the exhaust inlet of the turbo to the exhaust outlet of the turbo = quicker spool, so more back pressure before the turbo and the less pressure after the turbo the better.

so to cap, hpc coating all the way to the turbine housing to keep heat IN, and then plain steel dump to allow heat to radiate away and cool down allowing more gas to leave the turbo, post haste!

but im yet to price the coatings. so ill find out tomorrow.

[dynoryder]

wtf

[klampykixx]

well, iv just comitted to the headers, and the frozen boost W2a intercooler kit. waiting on a response to the wastegates, and then just gotta sort out the intake manifold.

[peal]

hahahahaha!

[klampykixx]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50273_108762825815260_7547_n.jpg

[clutch-monkey]

so how much temp reduction can be had with jet hot or hpc coatings?


okay if you using short pipes then the scavenge wont mean sweet fuck all of a bees dick

but you dont want heat reduction you want the exuast to stay real hot thats why you insulate just thermo tape the pipes but if you want a clean look then coat but you would want some good extractors to be coated

wtf is this the blind leading the blind

klampy not sure on exact figures but i have heard engine bay temps will drop considerably. i've done it on my mini and seen GT6 owners coat the exhaust from extractors to the rear axle to significantly cut down heat soak into the cabin as well

[<---cop]

http://www.djmick.co.uk/images/2009/10/pool-table-cuties-21-465x289.jpg

[klampykixx]

wtf is this the blind leading the blind

klampy not sure on exact figures but i have heard engine bay temps will drop considerably. i've done it on my mini and seen GT6 owners coat the exhaust from extractors to the rear axle to significantly cut down heat soak into the cabin as well

roger just proves his lack of knowledge everytime he opens his mouth. i doubt hed even be able to suck a cock right.....:gay:


thanks for the input monkey.

the bloke thats gonna do my tune has suggested against heat wrapping the pipes and would rather see a few layers of heat shielding with air gaps to insulate against radiating heat.

and i just had another conversation with the dude at pacemaker, and he said that for RnD purposes, treat the first set as sacrificial, and if it gets the results im looking for, to buy a fresh brand new set and have them "turbo black" ceramic coated to maintain the heat internally.

but another point based on the heat retention, my tuner said, that the gas flow at revs will be in the pipes for barely 0.2 of a second, so how quickly is it gonna cool down really? is the 10% temp drop really going to be noticable considering im going from 150hpatw to 350hpatw?

and just incase it was missed, im going to be running a 2.5 inch pipe out of each cylinder bank into each side of the turbine, and then ill be splitting the dump to twin 3inch pipes, so the pressure ratio accress the turbine is going to be in favour of spool times anyway. :yup:

[[TUFFVQ]]

So much win right here.......

[BMWTurbo]

I heard you can use the supercharged bottom end?

[klampykixx]

I heard you can use the supercharged bottom end?

whats that got to do with anything?

and if youre referring to the ecotec L67 supercharged bottom end, then no i cant. mines the buick 3.8, not ecotec.

[peal]

Still not sure if this is someone trolling or not....

[klampykixx]

still not sure if youre a troll....

[<---cop]

I heard the supercharged bottom ends are really strong

[klampykixx]

yea, they are. but its a different motor. its like me saying that iv got a CA18 and the SR20 has a stronger bottom end. i cant just swap them. it doesnt work like that.

[[TUFFVQ]]

but they're both moo v6's

[klampykixx]

the only thing they share is the 3.8L and its a V6. theyre a completely different motor. but you knew that right?

[Budge]

There's a lot of threads on this forum that I have learnt a lot from reading.

This is not one of them.

[<---cop]

the only thing they share is the 3.8L and its a V6. theyre a completely different motor. but you knew that right?

No way. Ive definitely seen a supercharged V6 commodore so it will fit.
They can handle like 500hps and I've seen them run 9s so I reckon you should fit it.

[klampykixx]

sure thing cop. i best be getting one.

[<---cop]

You should have stayed with this idea. Looks hot.

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/07062011809.jpg

[peal]

manifold design is impeccable.

[boostedbb]

shit, i just read this thread from the start, i wish i hadn't. Im sure i just became slightly retarded for a few minutes.

[peal]

pwned by troll.

[klampykixx]

troll it up baby.

[klampykixx]

heres a few of the things im waiting for delivery of.

Frozenboost water2air kit.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com//images/product/water_air_kit_1_picture.jpg

2x 38mm 11psi wastegates.

http://i.ebayimg.com/08/!By,+LmQBGk~$(KGrHqMOKjkEwQgMlCE+BMRp7c5mtw~~_12.J PG

5.0L throttle body = 65mm.

http://imgs.inkfrog.com/pix/4blokwarehouse/P1080292.JPG

[Tripper]

If you are worried about the heat issues why use the turbo black coating, use a zircon coating instead as it shits all over it

[<---cop]

Magnesium coatings are best.

[klampykixx]

what if i just spray a heap of VHT ceramic header paint all over it?

[dynoryder]

y not just wrap them like i suggested

[Gammaboy]

Have you thought about converting to a 2Jz?

[dynoryder]

Have you thought about converting to a 2Jz?

vote one this

i would be doing this if i was manual

but my auto likes my slow reving high torque mooster

[Gammaboy]

Wait. Aren't you building a "torque monster" na 3.8?

[klampykixx]

vote one this

i would be doing this if i was manual

but my auto likes my slow reving high torque mooster

torque mooster?(monster?) seriously?


why should i listen to anything you have to say? iv read your VR thread and all i can say is WTF? what are you even trying to acheive?

at least i have an actual aim.


im not putting a 2jz in. not yet anyway. its something iv thought about but havent got the cash to do it in one hit. and if i was to do a 2jz, id rather just ditch the commodore all together and drift in a supra or whatever... but thats not happening either.

seriously men (if i can call you men) i am doing this, this is not a troll attempt, i am genuine about trying this whole turbo concept, i am aiming to break 400hp at the wheels.

if it goes bang. in goes a wrecker motor and a safer tune, until i can afford to build a stronger bottom end.

[Gammaboy]

Have you thought about a supercharged bottom end?

[klampykixx]

the supercharged bottom end doesnt work with my heads/intake manifold. so no, i havent thought about using a supercharged bottom end, and even if i wanted to use the supercharged motor, the bottom end of the ecotec is identical to the super6 motor anyway. they run the same crank, the same four bolt mains, same block, same heads(except have injector provisions drilled), same cam, same everything.

the difference is in the rods and pistons, and im sure that id rather start with a stock NA ecotec and fit my own forged rods and pistons than fork out the extra for the SC motor and then put the forged bits as well.

[bbits_elements]

Hello.

What is going on here?

I just want to be a part of this truly revolutionary master mangcraftsmanship.

[XFJET]

so decided to have a look to see what footage of myself i actually have. this is all i found, its the practice day before the comp i entered, of which i came 1st in street class and i think i was 5th or 6th overall.

dont mind the redneck behind the camera, hes friends with the dude in the silvia.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98-_soJYyvs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3qA9YMi3s

WTF!? no offence as I can't drift for shit but give me 30min and i can drift better than that in a fucking i20 and who the fuck let that monkey loose with the camera?
how the fuck did you get 1st place? tank slappers ain't drifting and if you only push 300HP out of a turbo 3.8 then fucking hell why bother? 300HP is NA territory, if you can't get 1.5HP per cubic inch NA then you're just wanking rather than fucking

save your money for coke and sluts, you'll have more fun

[dynoryder]

hay klampy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:3800_LN3_89_bonneville.JPG is this not supercharged and it's a vr style buick

[peal]

I thought we concluded you were a troll?

[<---cop]

hay klampy http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/7/73/3800_LN3_89_bonneville.JPG/800px-3800_LN3_89_bonneville.JPG is this not supercharged and it's a vr style buick

Ok, that's just too far. Game over.

No one with the mental capacity to register on an internet forum is that stupid! :wtf:

[klampykixx]

no roger, here is the super L27

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6c/95RivEngine.jpg

[klampykixx]

notice it says SUPERCHARGED not just Fuel Injection

[dynoryder]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:95RivEngine.jpg happy now

[klampykixx]

but the point is still the same, the bottom end of that motor, super or not, is still only two bolt.

unless you can prove to me that its not by way of pictures.

[dynoryder]

l67 = six bolt mains

[klampykixx]

no its not. two in the bottom, two in the sides = 4 bolt. not six.

and the ecotec is the same 4 bolt caps as the L67 super6.

[XFJET]

ok back on topic... coked up jap slut Vs mooo

http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/5646/image0527.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/image0527.jpg/)

[klampykixx]

so back on topic. properly.

a bit of aluminium sheet on the floor in the boot is my next move. to mount the fuel cell properly, and give a flat base to mount the fuel pumps and surge tank to. and ill be doing this tomorrow and will be posting pics.

so for those who are actually interested in this project, it might not end up exactly the way iv got in mind, but it will be as close as i can get it.

and something else too, iv got dents in the tops of my pistons where valves have hit from a broken timing chain, is that going to cause issues as far as durability is concerned?

[klampykixx]

and before any more crap fills my thread, anything i deem inappropriate or useless will get their little triangle clicked.

Im not a troll, this is genuine. i dont care if everyone thinks im stupid or retarded or whatever.

I would like to be a part of PF and share my hobby.

[Gammaboy]

Oh no! People will surely not post in this thread lest they get their "triangle clicked"...

seriously, have you thought about turboing a 250 crossflow?

[klampykixx]

as in the ford 6cylinder motor? no i cant say i have.

[Gammaboy]

250 X-flow + Boost >>>>>> any holden/buick/GM 6 cylinder.

[briney]

what about the RB30 turbo. it had holden on the rocker cover. which makes it a holden 6. hah ! in all seriousness, apparently holden looked at using a nissan RB33 in the VN. (which nissan refused to make for our pissant market apparently.) so they designed the bay with an inline engine in mind. what about a 2jz ?

[klampykixx]

i actually had a VN with an RB30 i put in it, but ended up selling the combo off. i never got to drive it but as i had only done the actual fitment and none of the bits to actually make it go.

[klampykixx]

two of these are $40 cheaper than the no name gates.
just cancelled my wastegate order on ebay, going for some Turbosmart ultra gate 38s.

http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/468686401/Wholesale-Hot-Turbosmart-Ultra-Gate-Wastegate-38mm-reasonable-shipping-high-quality-Competitive-price-.summ.jpg

[<---cop]

two of these are $40 cheaper than the no name gates.
just cancelled my wastegate order on ebay, going for some Turbosmart ultra gate 38s.

[img]http://img.alibaba.com/wsphoto/v0/468686401/Wholesale-Hot-Turbosmart-Ultra-Gate-Wastegate-38mm-reasonable-shipping-high-quality-Competitive-price-.summ.jpg[/image]

For sure bro. The best place to buy genuine Turbosmart products is off Chinese wholesale websites. That's where the race teams buy them.

[crack]

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[klampykixx]

this is from another of my threads.


those turbosmart gates are so cheap. are they definately turbosmart?


questionable they are from taiwan but youll find its the same factory that makes them aussie made turbosmart ones LOL

[bigmuz]

Who posted that?

[Ratwagon]

Who posted that?

Someone on Boost...???

[peal]

I'm still hoping this is an AE.

[XFJET]

250 X-flow + Boost >>>>>> any holden/buick/GM 6 cylinder.

torque monsters in the 6cyl world


if the OP wants a fuel cell and the car is not to be registered why not just bolt a fuel cell to the passenger rear left side floor pan

I think if you are serious about the turbo Mooo engine you should really get some hardened apex seals as well

[klampykixx]

Who posted that?

the same fellow using one on a V6 that does 11sec 1/4 miles.


@XFJET, apex seals? what am i using a rotary motor as a turbo or something? may as well hey?

and the fuel cell is actually a good idea, it would help with proper weight distribution.

[Marv]

Marv's top Monday tip:

Reading this thread while listening to Primus is WAY better than taking acid and going to the zoo.

[Peter...]

I dunno, last time I had sex with a lion. Well at least I think I did.

[Marv]

It was probably Bronwyn Bishop

[Russell]

So here I am at work, a little bored and trying to waste a little time before a meeting.

So what does one do when bored? Read PF of course!

So there I was reading PF, some really good threads here full of info and blokes who know their shit (and their from there and they're) when I finally decide I'm now bored enough to click on a thread about moo.

To my dismay this thread is not full of info or blokes who know their shit (well some do, 2 definitely don't. This thread is fail.

And then I read this.



and before any more crap fills my thread, anything i deem inappropriate or useless will get their little triangle clicked.

Im not a troll, this is genuine. i dont care if everyone thinks im stupid or retarded or whatever.

I would like to be a part of PF and share my hobby.
I lol'd so hard that I had not only cunts looking at me funny, but people coming over and asking what the fuck I was laughing at.

Thanks.

[Peter...]

It was probably Bronwyn Bishop

It's a common mistake. She gets shitty if you yell out "OOOH ASLAN!" when you climax though...

[Marv]

It's a common mistake. She gets shitty if you yell out "OOOH ASLAN!" when you climax though...

:lol:

When John Hewson popped out from behind her vaginal maine I was taken aback like that time I discovered Iron Maiden covered Skyhook's "Women In Uniform". Shocking.

[x]

Just posting here so I can get my little red triangle clicked. I just fucking love it so much when I get my triangle touched - go on - hit my triangle!


OOooooooh yeah!

[bigmuz]

the same fellow using one on a V6 that does 11sec 1/4 miles.


@XFJET, apex seals? what am i using a rotary motor as a turbo or something? may as well hey?

and the fuel cell is actually a good idea, it would help with proper weight distribution.

On this forum? I searched but couldn't find it.

Just for reference turbosmart from taiwan isn't turbosmart no matter what some dumbcunt told you on a forum.

[XFJET]

there is a guy who does 11.5's in a NA xflow on another forum in a full weight XE so like i said ... if you're not getting 1.5HP per Cubic Inch you're not trying

being happy with 300hp out of a turbo Moo is defunct

[klampykixx]

so a 3.8 is 232 Ci.
232 Ci at 1.5hp/Ci = 347hp

im aiming for 400hp. so if i achieve that amount, is that acceptable by your standards?

[klampykixx]

On this forum? I searched but couldn't find it.

no. it doesnt matter where he is from. just that ill be using the same product he has faith in. this is the vehicle in question, the greenish silver VB. it has a VN S1 v6, stock bar a cam, big injectors, turbo and tune.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8GwLRq0ES0


Just for reference turbosmart from taiwan isn't turbosmart no matter what some dumbcunt told you on a forum.

i understand that. i never said they were genuine turbosmart. i know theyre most likely ripoff copies, and this may be wrong, but wouldnt a direct copy of a good quality product be better than a cheaply designed/made no name product?

[Tripper]

i understand that. i never said they were genuine turbosmart. i know theyre most likely ripoff copies, and this may be wrong, but wouldnt a direct copy of a good quality product be better than a cheaply designed/made no name product?

Go buy a $50 knock off a sealed gel battery and get back to me with the results.

[XFJET]

so a 3.8 is 232 Ci.
232 Ci at 1.5hp/Ci = 347hp

im aiming for 400hp. so if i achieve that amount, is that acceptable by your standards?

that formula is for NA not turbo

you got the wrong car for drifting dude well right car with no budget if you wanna put it that way

by the time you get all your safety shit sorted like cage seats harness and shit and get some sorted suspension you blow $6000, add a properly turbo moo engine and proper gearbox and you're hitting 10g's easy, for 10g's you can join the silvia crowd and pull sick skids your Moo can only dream about and have money left over for coke and sluts

[dynoryder]

that formula is for NA not turbo

you got the wrong car for drifting dude well right car with no budget if you wanna put it that way

by the time you get all your safety shit sorted like cage seats harness and shit and get some sorted suspension you blow $6000, add a properly turbo moo engine and proper gearbox and you're hitting 10g's easy, for 10g's you can join the silvia crowd and pull sick skids your Moo can only dream about and have money left over for coke and sluts

this is so true ive done all the math on moos dont bother klampy

[klampykixx]

this is so true ive done all the math on moos dont bother klampy

so youve done all the math, yet youre doing a build where youre "aiming" for 130kw. my engine did 140 kw at the wheels with a turbo built motor... and no boost.....

started with 105kw with just a cat back and cai....

[<---cop]

so youve done all the math, yet youre doing a build where youre "aiming" for 130kw. my engine did 140 kw at the wheels with a turbo built motor... and no boost.....

started with 105kw with just a cat back and cai....

Pics of 140rwkw N/A decompressed moo not loading :lol:


this is so true ive done all the math on moos dont bother klampy

You? Maths? :rotflol:

A+++ Post of the Year :lol:

This thread delivers. Thanks faggots.
It's so rare to get two retards that can make grunts and hand signals into some form of conversation for the amusement of the masses.

[<---cop]

PS Click the fuck out of my triangle faggot. Do it. DOOO IITTTTTT!!!1!1!!!1

[klampykixx]

if nothing else, im glad i can be of entertainment cop.

and every picture and video of my car is the 140kw turbo built "low comp" motor.

its only marginally lower compression than stock. which is enough.

[dynoryder]

:):):):):):)
Pics of 140rwkw N/A decompressed moo not loading :lol:



You? Maths? :rotflol:

A+++ Post of the Year :lol:

This thread delivers. Thanks faggots.
It's so rare to get two retards that can make grunts and hand signals into some form of conversation for the amusement of the masses.


keep me out of this cop im just here as i assume i have the most knowledge of moo's and i can back that up as no one will want to read as much as i have on moo's

[klampykixx]

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/01082011857.jpg

[lysdexia]

i have the most knowledge of moo's and i can back that up as no one will want to read as much as i have on moo's

lol

also, this is the worst/best thread on the internet atm

[AxGT]

:):):):):):)


keep me out of this cop im just here as i assume i have the most knowledge of moo's and i can back that up as no one will want to read as much as i have on moo's

:rotflol::rotflol::rotflol::rotflol::rotflol:

[<---cop]

:):):):):):)


keep me out of this cop im just here as i assume i have the most knowledge of moo's and i can back that up as no one will want to read as much as i have on moo's

Please.
I want as much as you have.
I want even more than you can give.
Spread your knowledge and let me taste it's sweetness.

[dynoryder]

Please.
I want as much as you have.
I want even more than you can give.
Spread your knowledge and let me taste it's sweetness.

you scare me

[klampykixx]

keep your night time fantasies to urselves.

[<---cop]

*yourselves

[klampykixx]

whatever.

[XFJET]

you got a fan in the boot?

[klampykixx]

yep, to keep the beers cool.

[klampykixx]

so XF, i forgot to ask, wht has the 1.5hp/Ci got to do with anything if its an NA benchmark?

[BeverlyHillsCop]

http://i930.photobucket.com/albums/ad150/klampykixx/VR%20drift%20car/01082011857.jpg

hey mate, looking good! is that where the fuel cell will be mounted?? Might want to rethink it as the sheet metal underneath looks like its already bending/buckling from the fuelcells weight only, and thats without any fuel in it hehe :)

[Billzilla]

Settle down a bit thanks guys, let him do his moo-car.

[klampykixx]

hey mate, looking good! is that where the fuel cell will be mounted?? Might want to rethink it as the sheet metal underneath looks like its already bending/buckling from the fuelcells weight only, and thats without any fuel in it hehe :)

the aluminium is just there as a coversheet, its only 1.2mm thick. and it looks curved coz the right hand side is slightly higher than the middle so doesnt sit quite flat.



and the fan, is actually sitting on one of the heat exchangers iv got for my w2a IC.

[Budge]

I like the lightweight battery. Very clever..

[klampykixx]

seriously? ur just looking for shit to pick on arent ya?

its a torch battery. it was just sitting there. has nothing to do with the car.

when its finally running ill gladly put it next to your VB/VC or whatever it is in your avatar. just to see how it goes.

[Budge]

I was serious.

It's a fucking tops looking battery.

I actually thought you had taken a pic and all the other shit around it was just sitting there and had nothing to do with the battery..


p.s. It's a fucking Toyota Lexcen. Get your eyes checked :)

[XFJET]

the 1.5hp per cubic inch is a NA benchmark which simply means if you can't get that out of an engine you're aren't even trying, obviously with a turbo or sc things are different

as a word of warning for a track/drift car you really don't want anything in your boot especially shit that can catch one fire like carpet or batteries etc. Braille make some very light batteries and are decently priced, summit sells them.

don't put aluminium sheeting in your boot dude, more shit to fly around and drop the fucking turbo on top of the gearbox idea

actually drop the whole Moo engine idea why do you want to spend so much money on it when LS1's make more power, will be cheaper and lighter

oh and learn how to drift

[klampykixx]

the 1.5hp per cubic inch is a NA benchmark which simply means if you can't get that out of an engine you're aren't even trying, obviously with a turbo or sc things are different

as a word of warning for a track/drift car you really don't want anything in your boot especially shit that can catch one fire like carpet or batteries etc. Braille make some very light batteries and are decently priced, summit sells them.

don't put aluminium sheeting in your boot dude, more shit to fly around and drop the fucking turbo on top of the gearbox idea

actually drop the whole Moo engine idea why do you want to spend so much money on it when LS1's make more power, will be cheaper and lighter

oh and learn how to drift

nothing in the boot isnt bolted down. theres nothing flammable in the boot. and iv already got a red top optima.

the alu is bolted to the floor.
and my turbo concept is a good one. might not be good for you, but its going to be fine for me.

iv already spent this on the moo. if i swap now, one, its another outlay i dont have, and two, its going to be another wasted effort to just give up on it now.

and learn to drift? wtf do you think im doing? pretending? i havent been on the track since 2009 november, the youtube links are from November 09. that was my third time on the track.


and budge,

what? are you for real?

your sig says VB commo.
your pic, is a VB Commo.

why tell stories?

[[TUFFVQ]]

theres nothing flammable in the boot.

ummm. The fuel cell?

OK, so I'll actually try and be constructive. Your best bet when building a car like this is to think what the primary function of each component is, then what it needs to achieve that function.

The suggestion for nothing in the boot is because you're likely to slap the back of the car into a wall at some point - nature of the game. And since the back will be swinging all over the shop, you're more likely to dislodged something mounted there than, say, in the cabin.

If you want to mount the cell in the back, I would suggest that you seal off the boot form the cabin completely, and make sure there is some sort of venting to atmosphere for fumes etc.

The "W2A heat exchanger" could be mounted in the cabin (say, passenger rear footwell) and a duct from the door could be made to feed it outside air, increasing the temperature reduction.

If you're looking for something to give you ideas on what to do, find some more info on this car:
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10988

I have seen it in person, and was mostly impressed with the suspension work he had done in order to obtain more lock and camber/castor. Your suspension setup is probably more important than outright power in this case.

[klampykixx]

firstly, thank you for actually being constructive and not just crapping on.


;841195253']ummm. The fuel cell?

OK, so I'll actually try and be constructive. Your best bet when building a car like this is to think what the primary function of each component is, then what it needs to achieve that function.

The suggestion for nothing in the boot is because you're likely to slap the back of the car into a wall at some point - nature of the game. And since the back will be swinging all over the shop, you're more likely to dislodged something mounted there than, say, in the cabin.

If you want to mount the cell in the back, I would suggest that you seal off the boot form the cabin completely, and make sure there is some sort of venting to atmosphere for fumes etc.

surely the fuel cell would be made of a fire retardant material? when i said theres nothing flammable in the back, i meant, theres no carpet, no felt, nothing that would/could catch fire other than the things that actually need to be there, like the tanks, pumps, and hoses. i removed my steel tank from under the car as it has become quite low, and it was quite close to the ground, i removed it coz i didnt want to risk ripping it open over ripple strips and such. and if im going to back into a wall, where the tank is now, is further away from the bumper bar than it was under the car.

i havent done it yet obviously, but i do have plans to panel off any openings to make the boot seperate from the cabin.


;841195253']The "W2A heat exchanger" could be mounted in the cabin (say, passenger rear footwell) and a duct from the door could be made to feed it outside air, increasing the temperature reduction.

so you would suggest relocating it? would it be better off out the front behind the big one when i mount it then? the original thermo fan will be turned on at all times so will always have air running through it.

where it is at the moment, theres a hole in the spare wheel well that it can suck air through. but i will certainly consider moving it when i mount the big one on the front.


;841195253']If you're looking for something to give you ideas on what to do, find some more info on this car:
http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10988

I have seen it in person, and was mostly impressed with the suspension work he had done in order to obtain more lock and camber/castor. Your suspension setup is probably more important than outright power in this case.

i had a brief look at it, pretty short thread.. i will see if i can find anymore info on it.

iv got Kmac camber kits on my front struts so when full lock its neutral camber rather than the castor induced positive camber, so already got that sorted, and allows me to keep my castor so the wheels still follow the car when swinging the rear around. iv already got a rack spacer that i plan on fitting to increase my steering angle, just another thing i havent done yet, but will when i pull my rack out in the coming few weeks. i will also have to modify my steering stops on the actual hubs also.

and as far as handling is concerned, the only thing i would have changed from before was that the rear end was too sloppy, iv since changed from stock rear swaybar to a 22mm one, and (king springs recommendation) removed the comfort coils from the rear springs to stiffen them up. so that should help as far as body roll in transitions is concerned.

[[TUFFVQ]]

The better airflow the W2A Core can receive, the more efficiently it will work. So anywhere you can mount it to get more air consistently is advantageous.

That VR had custom strut tops and spacers between the strut and the knuckle (from memory to help increase front end track). I used to have photos of it but can't find them on this PC and it was a few years since I saw it, but i remember that some of the work on this car impressed me. It had Rush Motorsport stickers down the side of it and was green.

As far as the rear end goes, i can suggest possibly boxing the lower trailing arms to stiffen them up, as well as replacing factory bushes with nolathane items. The panhard bushes being stiffer would help reduce this side to side movement as well.

I have heard of some people having flexing and cracking issues with the panhard mount with consistent heavy cornering, something to think about.

If the fuel cell is punctured from impact, it doesn't matter what its made of - the fuels out in the open.

If you can dig up TTVN's thread on SC about his drift VP, that might give you some more ideas regarding turbos in odd places.

[klampykixx]

TTVN is actually going to be doing the dyno tuning as he is only an hour away from me. so i will be talking to him thru my build for help and info. and his pink VP was actually the car that inspired me to do the rear mount turbo.

iv already got a complete nolathane conversion, nolathane rear trailing arms, boxed top ones. i could still box the lower ones yet.

iv got bolt on hub spacers on the front of mine to increase the track, but may have to change that, as with the spacers on im pretty close to scrubbing the wheels on full lock, and wanting to increase that lock i think im going to scrub.

iv also googled the CAMs rules for drifting and ill be applying myself to those. so far, everything is covered within the rules, theres a few things i need to be sure of when i get to them, but everything iv done so far is ok, and the things i plan will be ok as well. the only thing im not sure on is the noise limit, but that isnt important atm.

[[TUFFVQ]]

He has tweaked the tune on my VQ earlier this year. Seemed to do a fairly good job so I don't think you'll have much of a problem.

[XFJET]

when i intend to so some sort of motorsport with my car there are few things that i follow

first on the list is safety then keep it simple stupid

you should not mount anything in your boot if you drift, period! It's not a road reg car so road rules don't apply as long as they pass scrutineers at the track.

That fuel tank needs a breather and that fuel tank will split, don't believe me? fill i up with water and drop it on a corner from 2 metres, that won't be the same as when you hit the back of the car into a wall or something but close

you should spend your money on suspension setup rather than power, you can overcome power by limited grip to some extent

from the videos you posted you're not drifting against anyone so not sure how that works, if that's the case and it's done purely on looks you're in luck, just run 185 wide tyres and you're sweet! if you do drift against someone then you need loads of grip and loads of power or else they will leave you behind, best trick in drifting is to have tons of speed and just leave the opponent behind in the initial start then slow down and do your thing

If I'd be drifting I'd ask/beg etc. some drifters to take a ride in their cars, not drive them just as a passenger so i can get a better understanding of how everything works then I'd follow their builds in their respective forums and learn from their mistakes, normally i'd just lurk around and take notes

can't comment on commodores as I don't particularly like them but my sister used to have one of those commodores and they are not known for stiffness, when she went over a big speed pump you can hear the doors moving in their sockets, you lift the car up to change a tire and there is one and half finger gap in the door to pillar .... so my guess is if you got some grippy rubber at the front you loose about 2-3 degrees of alignment through a corner at minimum

if you wanna play with the boys you gotta pay, get a cage to protect yourself and stiffen the body, get a few sets of springs to see what works or copy someone with similar car, some good bushes and dampers and experiment with alignment and tyre pressures, once you got all that sorted then up the power

but in the end a silvia with half the money you spend will do better drifts, you should of gotten a wagon! they look better crossways around bends

[klampykixx]

i understand everything youve said, dont agree with all of it, but most.

first is the tank, what difference does it make if its in the normal spot under the car or in the same spot on the other side of the panel inside the boot? either way if i crunch the boot the tank is gonna get crunched as well. wether its in or out. i have plans on sealing the boot from the cab, as iv said, and there is a fitting on the top of the tank that i can run to one of the two stock vents that are normally behind the spare, that isnt an issue at all. i understand that it will split if hit, but so could a steel one.

as for the setup, iv just fitted bigger wider front wheels, iv also stiffened the rear up to promote more consistant grip/grip loss, and since my last drive, its had a lot of useless stuff removed, last time i drove, it was registered street car, it had most of the interior in it, it now does not. thered be nearly 40kg in the bonnet i took off and replaced.

its going to be a completey different car when i get back out there. in the comp i entered in Nov 09, the judges said to me that if i had just a little more power, and a decent handbrake, i could have easily competed with the "race cars". as i supposedly had more points in the tighter sections but then lost points over the big sweeper and into the kink.

as for taking rides, my mates all have nissans, skylines, silvias and 180sx's. iv been in a few different ones and understand the difference between theirs and mine. i would like to think that now, mine would be closer matched compared to what it was the last time i drove it.

and youre correct on the body flex. its quite flexy from corner to corner. i do plan on a roll cage but for now (and for raleigh raceway) not having a cage is ok, but i do plan that if i go anywhere else, to fit at least a four point cage. its another one of those things that are on my list but just a bit further down.

im yet to participate in a tandem battle so not sure how id go against another car.

[XFJET]

fuel cell inside boot goes pop fuel everywhere exhaust close to it boom
fuel cell outside of boot goes pop fuel everywhere exhaust close to it boom on outside of the car, enough time to gtfo
fuel cell on rear passenger spot with safety cell no boom boom, proper fuel cells have a bladder inside so if the cell deforms the bladder don't pop

those things flex like shit so with grippier tyres at the front will fex more, go change some toe and caster by 4 degrees on your daily car and drive it see how it feels, this is what you get mid corner, exactly where you want your geometry in spec

now imagine you're an engineer for a sec (tough ask but try) and figure out where your COG is in your mooo car ... now measure the distance from your COG to your fuel cell on both axis, should be about 1.5metres by my awesome guestimate ... now say you lift your fuel cell full of fuel off the ground with your hand, not much work right? now remember that 1.5 metres? get a pole 1.5 metres long and on one end of it tie your fuel cell and at the other hand place your hand and try and lift the fuel cell .... oops you can't, not unless you're robocop or some shit ... this is what adding shit to your car further from it's COG does

its the simple things like placement of components on your car that make a difference, most try and keep them between the axles you certainly don't, i don't expect you to understand any of this thou .... you seem to be doing everything in your way to make shit not work and you're fucking good at it!

and i still think a turbo on top of your gearbox is the dumbest idea i have heard in my life

and you post some videos of you doing drifts?

[klampykixx]

vid first.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9S3qA9YMi3s

[klampykixx]

i didnt think you were allowed to have a fuel cell inside the cab?

[klampykixx]

this morning i saved a copy of the drift specific car regs, this is one of them

"11.save for 1st Category automobiles, be fitted with a bulkhead constructed from a flame- and liquid-proof
material. If the material is clear it shall be a minimum of 6mm thick. This bulkhead shall effectively seal the
cockpit from the fuel tank or re-fuelling system;"

so by that^ id have to build a chamber around the tank if i mounted it inside.

[klampykixx]

fuel cell inside boot goes pop fuel everywhere exhaust close to it boom

my exhaust will be side pipes, maybe as far back as the Bpillar at most. so no fear of hot pipes igniting petrol.

and i dont think my tank has a bladder..




now imagine you're an engineer for a sec (tough ask but try) and figure out where your COG is in your mooo car ... now measure the distance from your COG to your fuel cell on both axis, should be about 1.5metres by my awesome guestimate ... now say you lift your fuel cell full of fuel off the ground with your hand, not much work right? now remember that 1.5 metres? get a pole 1.5 metres long and on one end of it tie your fuel cell and at the other hand place your hand and try and lift the fuel cell .... oops you can't, not unless you're robocop or some shit ... this is what adding shit to your car further from it's COG does

i understand what youre saying about CoG and i can also guarantee iv improved upon what youre talking about, my original tank would be at least 20kg empty, my new tank, is not only smaller, from 65L down to 40L, but the tank itself is barely 5kg, and is actually closer to the rear axle than the stock tank was.


its the simple things like placement of components on your car that make a difference, most try and keep them between the axles you certainly don't, i don't expect you to understand any of this thou .... you seem to be doing everything in your way to make shit not work and you're fucking good at it!

of all the competition cars i saw at my last race day, two weeks ago, at least 50% of the cars had a fuel cell. In the boot.

im not sure how much more stuff i can move forward, theres nothing else left. except the tank and pumps.


and i still think a turbo on top of your gearbox is the dumbest idea i have heard in my life

im not sure what to say to that. iv spoken to a few different workshops who have done similar setups and theyre either supportive or interested. none of them have said "dont do it"

the only thing wrong with the concept is the cutting the floor part. everything else im attempting with it has been done, think porsche, similar length hot piping, subaru, long pipes there, and my cold pipes will be less than half of even those... but anyway, the turbo setup isnt important to this conversation at the moment.

I appreciate both yours and TuffVQs input.

[[TUFFVQ]]

Realistically, i wouldn't be too worried about cutting holes in the floor. Simply brace the area you cut out with a 'ring' of equal area welded around the hole and you shouldn't have too much difficulty (assuming you're not cutting 12" square holes!).

I would also consider (for longevity and reduced cost) simply using the factory cast header manifolds instead of the pacey extractors. That won't crack, and shouldn't hamper your performance much at all for the power levels you are chasing. Simple is best.

[[TUFFVQ]]

I should qualify that last statement by saying, so long as you don't cut through structural areas (i.e. stick to the flat sections)

[<---cop]

im not sure what to say to that. iv spoken to a few different workshops who have done similar setups and theyre either supportive or interested. none of them have said "dont do it"


I am interested in seeing 1x turbo mounted on a gearbox.
I have never seen one before. Can you show us one example?

Which workshops have done gearbox mounted turbos before?

[takai]

I am interested in seeing 1x turbo mounted on a gearbox.
I have never seen one before. Can you show us one example?

Which workshops have done gearbox mounted turbos before?

I know of several, they tend to look like this:
http://www.dynamotorsports.ca/gallery/CamryT51Rengine1.jpg

[klampykixx]

;841196825']Realistically, i wouldn't be too worried about cutting holes in the floor. Simply brace the area you cut out with a 'ring' of equal area welded around the hole and you shouldn't have too much difficulty (assuming you're not cutting 12" square holes!).



after cutting the required area for the turbo i had intended on bracing the edge with sections of angle bar (welded) and then bolting the "cover" over the turbo to that section of angle bar, so that way i still have easy access if and when i need to.

is that what you meant?



Originally Posted by <---cop
I am interested in seeing 1x turbo mounted on a gearbox.
I have never seen one before. Can you show us one example?

Which workshops have done gearbox mounted turbos before?

alot of the american front wheel drive cars with this same engine mount the turbo in a similar spot over the transmission.

[lysdexia]

fwd cars have the gearbox in the engine bay mate..

[<---cop]

alot of the american front wheel drive cars with this same engine mount the turbo in a similar spot over the transmission.

Wait wait wait wait..... Have you been reading Buick forums and getting your awesome gearbox mounting ideas from them talking about their FWDs?

[klampykixx]

fwd cars have the gearbox in the engine bay mate..

and youve probably got a dick up ur ass but no one tells you to remove it do they?

[klampykixx]

to those that are actually trying to assist, thank you.

[lysdexia]

and youve probably got a dick up ur ass but no one tells you to remove it do they?

steady on fuck head. you said you want to mount it above the gear box like they do in the fwd cars. you have a fucking firewall in the way in a commodore.

don't make me click your little triangle for insulting me.

[takai]

Click the triangle away.... its not like we care.

[klampykixx]

hah, have you not read my thread? planning on cutting a hole in the floor to allow it to fit there.

youll probably think thats a moronic thing to do tho, as youve already attempted to have a go at my idea.

[takai]

Bloody hell, you dont listen do you. IT IS A MORONIC THING TO DO.

[peal]

This guy isn't real.

[klampykixx]

Peal, youre on the ball mate. pity no one else can see that....

[Russell]

Klampy, in all seriousness listen to these guys as they know what they're on about.

Turbomountedonearboxen is not only a bad idea, but a silly and pointless one.

[lysdexia]

hah, have you not read my thread?

i did try, but my brain stopped working partway through the 2nd page

[klampykixx]

im not afraid to cut into my car. if my concept fails, whats it worth to adjust it? lets see, a new shell, couple hundred, and passenger side stock header, $80, and some more piping, <$100. its not the end of the world if it fails. and if it does, then ill certainly cop the shit that will no doubt come with it. if i win however, i WILL throw it in your faces.

[Billzilla]

im not afraid to cut into my car. if my concept fails, whats it worth to adjust it? lets see, a new shell, couple hundred, and passenger side stock header, $80, and some more piping, <$100. its not the end of the world if it fails. and if it does, then ill certainly cop the shit that will no doubt come with it. if i win however, i WILL throw it in your faces.

You seem committed, so go for it!
Take plenty of photos so we can see how it all progresses.

[klampykixx]

i sure am bill. and i will certainly be taking photos along the way. even if only for the doubters.

i have faith that the design iv got in my mind will succeed and be well worth any extra effort.

[dynoryder]

Peal, youre on the ball mate. pity no one else can see that....

.