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Thread: Mk3 supra auto-manual

  1. #1
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    Mk3 supra auto-manual

    well, I think I'm going to buy a Mk3, but I want a turbo targa top, and all the targa's are figgen auto cept some that have had the manual convertion. how hard and how much dose this convertion cost, and how hard is it to get the parts?

    thanks

  2. #2
    Registered User TRD-KINGSWOOD's Avatar
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    Turbo or Non turbo. This alone makes a world of difference. Over $1200 difference.

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    $1200, thats not to bad, how hard is this convertion?

  4. #4
    Emil. MISTER Emil. MREMIL's Avatar
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    naaa, the difference in price is about $1200. An NA gearbox is around 400-500, turbo box is aroud $2k. And thats just for the box, not the complete conversion kit.

    Conversion kit also needs (off the top of my head)
    Clutch, bell housing, flywheel, clutch master/slave cylinders, pedals, and tail shaft (or possible modify ur existing one).

    This should set u back about $2000-3000 for the whole thing, then u gotta fit it. I havent done the conversion yet on my turbo targa, but i am considering it.

    Speak to Nick... hes done it

    And if u wanna buy a mk3 turbo targa (black, w/grey interior), ive got one for sale


    PS... make sure the bellhousing is to suit ur engine. If u have a 7m-gte, then get a Mseries bell housing. If its a 1JZ engine, then get a J series bellhousing. And ig u get one with a 1GGTE engine, then your gay and wasted your money! 7M or 1JZ is the way to go
    Emil... MISTER EMIL.
    It's all just nuts and bolts, and I know how to screw. Can't be any easier

  5. #5
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    what are you asking for your Mk3

  6. #6
    あなたの母親の肛門 Shifty's Avatar
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    The non turbo (W58) or turbo (R154) boxes are up to the task, just really depends on how you want to drive the car.

    Basically for a manual conversion (have just done one on my car, which is soon to be for sale) you will need:

    Shifter, boot (this is in two or three parts!) & gearknob
    Gearbox (with shifter, yoke, clutch fork/bearing/bearing hub/clips)
    Tailshaft modified to fit yoke (as above)
    Clutch & Pressure plate
    Flywheel & Crankshaft bearing
    Manual Brake & clutch pedal set
    Clutch master cylinder, hydraulic lines, slave cylinder
    Clutch Fluid
    A large assortment of bolts & a lot of patience
    Other stuff I've missed

    It's not an 'easy' job but assuming you've got a few helping hands you can't go too far wrong.

    It's big dollars though.. probably the cheapest way is to buy a turbo half cut and on-sell the motor and other parts you don't need.
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  7. #7
    Emil. MISTER Emil. MREMIL's Avatar
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    and oh yes... one thing we both forgot to add shifty..
    a lot of swearing... have a big supply, from what ive heard, this will be your most used tool!
    Emil... MISTER EMIL.
    It's all just nuts and bolts, and I know how to screw. Can't be any easier

  8. #8
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    is $2999 cheap for a JZA70 2.5TT manual half cut??

  9. #9
    Little engine that could. itsnotagsr's Avatar
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    get the half cut, drop in the 1jz and gearbox and get rid of the boat anchor, head gasket eating 7m pos.
    "If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough horsepower." - Mark Donahue Penske Porsche 917

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  10. #10
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    I've done a a-> m conversion on a supra turbo and it cost about $2200 total. In retrospect it was a total waste of effort because, as others have said the 7m is/was a piece of shit.

    If you want an engine that is:
    1. Rough as hell about 4500rpm
    2. Hungry on head gaskets
    3. so heavy it makes the car feel like a limo on turn in
    4. the winner of the worst placed oil filter award 1986-1991
    5. Hard on fuel
    6. quite limited as far as performance potential
    7. Incompetent cooling system

    then the 7m supra is the car for you. Honestly they're boats. And before people start bitching at me it had:

    * Custom struts with adjustable coilovers all round
    * HKS head gasket overtorqued to 68ft.lb
    * centreforce clutch w/ 2200lb pressure plate
    * hybrid garret turbo
    * drain pipe exhaust
    * aftermarket calipers /pads
    * etc etc etc

    With all that it did manage to beat quite a few WRX's around QR but you had to drag it round. It shredded tyres no matter what the suspension setup was. It seriously suffered in the brake department and you just never new what that damn head gasket / cooling system had in store for you. They're fine for cruising and street racing. But they're a long way away from the 2.5 let alone the mk4s

    -pete

  11. #11
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    That is funny, I've never had those problems.

    Yes I'm going to pick you apart.

    1. Rough as hell about 4500rpm

    ?? don't know wtf was wrong with your car.. What year is your motor, they changed cranks in 89 to a fully balanced item.

    2. Hungry on head gaskets

    Mine must be slim then, it's NEVER had a BHG.

    3. so heavy it makes the car feel like a limo on turn in

    Turn in harder. It's ****ing 1600kg for christs sake..

    4. the winner of the worst placed oil filter award 1986-1991

    I'll award this one too but it's not really THAT hard..

    5. Hard on fuel

    55L to fill and I get about 450kms around town and up to 650kms on the hiway.

    6. quite limited as far as performance potential

    ?? WTF? you are joking right? I bet you don't know about a few 500hp stock internal cars around in the states and even Seb's Supra down in Melbourne that is pushing 540rwkw on the stock rods..

    7. Incompetent cooling system

    And you are complaining about this and own an FD RX7?
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  12. #12
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    hehe I was waiting for this:

    1. Yes mine was '88 didn't know about the revised cranks. My opinion still stands as far as my experience with early mk3s.

    2. So what? Are you denying these cars eat them like popcorn? Ever seen the polls on the supra list or even just supraNZ? You're just one example. Most people blow them. Why do you think SO MANY companies make replacements?

    3. Turn in harder? That's called understeer in this case.

    5. Either you're dead stock, lying or have mistaken the size of your fuel tank. 55l? WTF? You probably get 450km at best, downhill with no interior. There's no way in hell that's what you average every day and you know it.

    6. How many mk3's run sub 10 1/4's? How many were made again? How about their competition record? The 7m mk3s sucked at production car racing here and internationally.

    7. Comparing a crap cooling system with another crap one doesnt make it better . The comparason is with the JA70 Supra. If you want to compare MA70 MK3 supra with FD rx-7 I'd be happy to discuss that in a seperate thread.

    Pick that apart
    -pete

  13. #13
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    1. Yes mine was '88 didn't know about the revised cranks. My opinion still stands as far as my experience with early mk3s.

    Well now you know.

    2. So what? Are you denying these cars eat them like popcorn? Ever seen the polls on the supra list or even just supraNZ? You're just one example. Most people blow them. Why do you think SO MANY companies make replacements?

    What I'm saying is they will pop IF you don't look after them.
    Companys that make replacements for them also make replacements for 2JZ, 1JZ, RB26..

    3. Turn in harder? That's called understeer in this case.

    It's funny but peole seem farely impressed with the track handling of the car.

    5. Either you're dead stock, lying or have mistaken the size of your fuel tank. 55l? WTF? You probably get 450km at best, downhill with no interior. There's no way in hell that's what you average every day and you know it.

    It's 55l it fill and I get about 400 kays for city driving it's a fact live with it.
    No I'm not Stock, Engine mods are Boosted Turbo, Custom 3" Dump and manrel 3" exhaust, Lexus upgrade oh and a manual conversion that I did myself if that helps.

    6. How many mk3's run sub 10 1/4's? How many were made again? How about their competition record? The 7m mk3s sucked at production car racing here and internationally.

    How many of any car runs sub 10's? I only know of 3 mk4's that I know of that run in the 9sec braket that are not race cars.
    Sucked at production car racing??? WTF? So the Group A days was a big waste of time... Take the time to download this shootout it's 14MB. Click Here

    7. Comparing a crap cooling system with another crap one doesnt make it better . The comparason is with the JA70 Supra. If you want to compare MA70 MK3 supra with FD rx-7 I'd be happy to discuss that in a seperate thread

    But I thought you said the cooling sucked on the mk3.. Then you have a car that has a bad cooling problem too, was making a point. FD Rx7's are nice cars, one of my mates has one. But to be making judgments on something that you only have a limited knowledge about is wrong (proved by the crank issue).
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  14. #14
    JZA80, Turbolax. Stenno's Avatar
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    Interesting, in the Group E production cars (Limited mods, can only run factory dampers). Peter Fitzgerald dominated this class for years, despite the supra's porky weight and shit house brakes.

    Hmm, on a low comp 7m (7.5:1) which was built to 1930 tolerences i still got over 500km in mixed driving and just under 750kms a tank on the highway

    Didn''t the MA70 win a bathurst 12 hour production race with Peter Fitzgerald at the wheel?

    As for not making HP, anything has the potential to make decent ponies if it's put together correctly.

    I own 1 of these devil ridded shit boxes, and i'm stupid enuff to still have it, but when all goes well it's a fun car to drive.

    Each to their own
    96' JZA80, Stock.

  15. #15
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    1. Good so you agree the early mk3 at least were horrible harsh engines that hate to be revved?

    2. Stuff that I looked after mine. Regular coolant flush aftermarket HG, overtorque, never leaned out, no detonation and it still went. Do you remember the petition to Toyota to get them recalled?

    3.Compared to what? A JA70?

    5. So we're down to 400 from 450? Doesn't matter much anyway.

    6. What makes you think I have a limited knowledge of mk3's cooling systems? I reckon I've torn the whole thing down and put it back together at least twice. Many parts probably 5-10 times.

    My point was not some "my car is cooler than yours" crap - hell, I never mentioned my car, you ripped it from my username. I was simply saying that the 1JZ-GTE is the better option. My knowledge of a crank I never had or a car that has only a throttle position sensor in common with an MA70 are totally beside the point.

    -pete

  16. #16
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    1. Good so you agree the early mk3 at least were horrible harsh engines that hate to be revved?
    Yeah sure, does it make it a crap motor? No.
    2. Stuff that I looked after mine. Regular coolant flush aftermarket HG, overtorque, never leaned out, no detonation and it still went. Do you remember the petition to Toyota to get them recalled?
    They just don't go.. something makes them do, be it the headgasket design or bad fuel etc.. I do hope you know they learnt from the gasket and went to metal gaskets in the JZ series don't you? If the stock gasket is only torqued to 54ft/lbs (the stock rating out of the workshop manual) it will go. Torque it up to the correct spec 70-74ft/lbs and it will be right. Take exhibit A, my motor, had the retorque done at 100000kms and not one problem, currently has 260,000kms on it with the same turbo, yes the turbo has never had a rebuild aswell, don't beleive me ask around here.
    5. So we're down to 400 from 450? Doesn't matter much anyway.
    Here we go, it seems to matter to you if you start grabing for figures.. How about I say it again... "about" 400 kms in the city and "about" 650 kms on the hiway.
    6. What makes you think I have a limited knowledge of mk3's cooling systems? I reckon I've torn the whole thing down and put it back together at least twice. Many parts probably 5-10 times.
    Wasn't the cooling system I was saying you had limited knowledge of, the whole car. Good for you, it's good to work on your own car, judging from how manytimes you have pulled the car apart it must have been abit of a lemon or you treated not the best.. again I'm only judging by what I read here, nothing personal.
    My point was not some "my car is cooler than yours" crap - hell, I never mentioned my car, you ripped it from my username. I was simply saying that the 1JZ-GTE is the better option. My knowledge of a crank I never had or a car that has only a throttle position sensor in common with an MA70 are totally beside the point.
    No matter how you try you are not going to turn this in to something it is not.
    You made the reference that the MA70/71 has a crap cooling system, I pointed out that the FD also has a crap cooling system so what. You got defencive about that not my fault. You made it public by using that username. Only now you are saying straight out the 1J is a better option, you didn't start this to say that, you started this to flame the 7M and the A70's handling. The guy only wanted to know about the manual conversion. But I'm sick of the shit like yourself and certain magazine are building up the paranoia about the A70 Supra.
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  17. #17
    Emil. MISTER Emil. MREMIL's Avatar
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    i own a mk3 turbo targa (86mdl)...
    only bad point...

    -not much room to get laid, but even this is overcome with a lil effort (and flexibility).



    Nuff said!

    As for drinking petrol, its a 3lt turbo... wtf do u expect?
    As for eating head gaskets... as nick said, retorque it and ur fine
    As for too heavy and hard to handle... its a tuff car, if u wanna drive miss daisy, buy a volvo.



    And not gettin aggressive, just love my mk3!
    Emil... MISTER EMIL.
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  18. #18
    Registered User Jow's Avatar
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    hahaha settle down Nicko... I think the guy was just commenting on the credibility of your "facts" (be it "grabbing figures" or whatever):

    "55L to fill and I get about 450kms around town and up to 650kms on the hiway" vs "It's 55l it fill and I get about 400 kays for city driving it's a fact live with it".

    I don't think he was saying that your car is crap to get you on the defense. I think he was just listing the points as to why he didn't think the A>M conversion was worth it in retrospect.

    Once again, it's just the guy's opinion. Not really any need to take it as a personal attack or turn it into one.

    Now lets all just shake hands, be friends and accept the fact that we all have different taste.

    Back to the topic at hand... Now that we are all friends again, does anyone know the ratio's of the Supra auto box?

    And a question to the guy with the RX7. A friend is looking at getting a series 6 RX7. Do you know of any good importers on the Gold Coast?
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  19. #19
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    "55L to fill and I get about 450kms around town and up to 650kms on the hiway" vs "It's 55l it fill and I get about 400 kays for city driving it's a fact live with it".
    I know you are trying to get a bite from me, it's in your nature. But what is the vs about, I said about.. in the dictionary it does mean appox, now some weeks I get 400 in town and others 450 what is the problem here? If I spend most of the week on the hiway it goes up to 600-650.

    He also said that the 7M quote "7m is/was a piece of shit"

    Once again, it's just the guy's opinion. Not really any need to take it as a personal attack or turn it into one
    Never has been. Again I think you are reading into something.
    Back to the topic at hand... Now that we are all friends again, does anyone know the ratio's of the Supra auto box?
    '92 Supra turbo automatic
    Transmission: 4 speed AUTOMATIC
    Gear ratios 1st: 2.80:1 4th: 0.70:1
    2nd: 1.53:1
    3rd: 1.00:1
    Final drive ratio: 3.73:1
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  20. #20
    Registered User Jow's Avatar
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    hahaha yeah. LOL Thanks for the prompt reply about the ratios.

    Now does anyone else in here know of places on the Gold Coast that sell series 6 RX7's and approximately how much they go for?
    If you saw two guys named Hambone and Flippy, which one would you think liked dolphins the most? I'd say Flippy, wouldn't you? You'd be wrong, though. It's Hambone.

  21. #21
    Irrepressible jimboe's Avatar
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    Jow, don't hi-jack nismo's therad dude.. this ones about what involved with cost / part / effort wise in converting an auto supra to a manual one.

    make a new post, so nismo can still collect useful data that he is interested in in his own post.
    ta.
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  22. #22
    Irrepressible jimboe's Avatar
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    Just watched that Jap shootout..
    very very nice.

    I loved the way the GT-R hugged the inside line the whole time and the Z / supra / rx-7 all went into doriftor mode
    very nice.
    i was very surprised to see how badly the rx fell behind.. it was only JUST keeping ahed of the VR-4 !

    not bad at all.. esp seeing as an MA71 can be had for less than 14 grand, yet the GT-R is still in the high 20's low 30's
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  23. #23
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    To answer the question on how much and what is need you the conversion..

    What is required;

    • R154 Gearbox
    • Flywheel
    • Clutch
    • Slave Cylinder
    • Master Cylinder
    • Hydrolic Lines with flex section
    • Clutch and Manual Brake Pedals
    • Shifter Boot (upper and lower)
    • Custom Tailshaft (modded auto one)
    • Lots of swearing/beer


    Ok this is what it cost me.

    • R154 Gearbox with flywheel, stock clutch, slave cylinder = $1250
    • Upgraded Clutch and Machined Flywheel (5 Puck 3400lb) = $715
    • Master Cylinder New from Toyota = $250
    • Hydrolic Lines = $30
    • Steel Braided Flex Line Pirtek = $80
    • Clutch and Brake Pedal from friend = $Free
    • Tail Shaft Modded = $170
    • Shifter Boot = $15


    So all parts = $2510
    I did the conversion myself saving labour but it's abit of a job and if you went at it, it could be done in a weekend.
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  24. #24
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    thanks for that

  25. #25
    Registered User EzeKieL's Avatar
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    Originally posted by itsnotagsr
    get the half cut, drop in the 1jz and gearbox and get rid of the boat anchor, head gasket eating 7m pos.
    let's just get afew things straight.

    I think what afew of the resident MK3 crew here are trying to say, is the fact that the 7M is a robust & reliable engine when treated properly (like most things automotive), depite all the negative publicity.
    The 1JZ was built from the ground up to replace the ageing 7M and was engineered to be a worthy replacement. It's hardly fair to compare the efficiency of both, seeing as the 7M was around for decades before the JZ series...

    Regardless, in stock form a JZA70 will prove to be a full second quicker than an MA70 in a straight line. Attesting to the fact that a 1JZ pulls 12psi through twin turbos.... now surely an 7M with twice as much boost and an extra turbo could rival this? Not bad for a boat anchor hey?
    As for reliability... I think Seb's Supra is a pretty accurate represenatation of the capability of an engineered "piece of shit". Having said that, I have seen afew 1JZ's in Japan sporting large single turbo conversions pulling high 10's on slicks.

    I'm with Stenno...
    Each to their own

  26. #26
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    OK just to clear a few things up here:

    I am not knocking the mk3 supra per se. I was saying how the 7m affected the handling thats all. Show me here I kocked the MK3 IN GENERAL. For christ's sake I BOUGHT ONE FOR A REASON. I liked the car I just found the engine had a few faults.

    My engine was overtorqued re-read my original posts. I suspect it was bad fuel but then I can only think of a handful of engines that can't take a small instance of detonation. Hell my 13b can take a lot more than that.

    rx-7 importers: try www.rx7series8.com or www.dmrh.com.au they're the only ones who can bring in the series 8. rx7seies8 (vision car parts) are in brisbane and have COMPLIANCE plates.

    I can post a BM video of rx-7's beating supras GTR's etc etc so what??? WTF has that got to do with anything?

    re fuel figures. I'm not grabbing for numbers I am just saying you dont get 450 every day.

    -pete

  27. #27
    Registered User TRD-KINGSWOOD's Avatar
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    1J's boost is only 9-10PSI in stock trim

  28. #28
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    Right so with a 1jz-gte you get a smaller,lighter more ecenomical motor. No heavy bottom end. No undersized turbo (you have to admit the ct-26 is small). They just fixed the faults of the ma70 on the JA70. So I think it's a real step in the right direction. I do take back about the 7m being a POS. But it is simply not as good as a 1jz. I just wish I bough one

    Nick: You didnt mention the gearbox x-member. Why not? I couldnt re-use the old one did you?
    -pete

  29. #29
    Registered User Nick's Avatar
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    FDRX7: The 1J doesn't weight that much less than the 7M block. Both are cast iron. Yes the 1J is a better motor not denying that, the 2J is even better :P With the 89+ A70 Supras were all the same, my car shares all the same suspension as the JZA70, same cross member aswell. I plan on putting a 1JZ in as my motor is starting to get tired. It's done it's duty but to rebuild it when I can get a JZA70 frontcut for the same $$ is silly now and I get an extra gearbox. The CT26 arn't "that" small, still a fairly nice size for a stock turbo, just thay are an old design now but make a good cheap upgrade for people.

    Rear gearbox xmember, yes just used the rubber mounts off my auto and it all lined up.
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  30. #30
    ɟʇʍ fdrx7's Avatar
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    well you're doing better than me. Even with a trimmed t3 jammed in there I still couldn't get good flow from the ct26 @redline.

    BTW Glad to see we finally agree. Except on the xmember mine was way out

    -pete

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