talk to me about motecs ...

[Rz]

so i have my car stripped atm few a few upgrades and a tidy up , thought id go a motec at the same time (currently E6K)
i dont need any top end model as i only want to run the farkin motor and the fact it'll only be running batch fire is another meh point as sequential (m6 m8) is going to require another msd.
map sensor used will be my existing , and im pretty sure haltech and motec share the same air and water temp sensors , so i wont need those (ill verfiy this)
i see the m4 clubby is only 2k , is this going to need any bullshit money spent on it to 'unlock' features such as boost control ?
all ill need is a motec boost solinoid and happy days ?
ill be making the loom myself cos im pretty good at wires so i guess ill just need a plug from moootec.

TIA

edit : ok , allready established it will need to be the m4 pro , rather than clubman which only has basic boost control.

[carcrazy]

You could consider the Autronic SM2 computer for sale on here for a great price, they are a top piece of gear and have tracton control and a couple of PWM outputs which are good for boost control

[psi999]

If your looking at an SM2, i'd also look at the new E11v2 Haltech with autotune & proper boost control (unlike E6S, K, X etc).

Edit - and if your looking for batch fire fuel and ign a cheaper E8 Haltech will do that.... same as E11v2 but only 4 ign/fuel outputs.... 32 x 32 user definable mapping.

[lotec]

i'd go an autronic sm2/4, as their shit hot bang for buck, and the aftermarket support provided on their forums is extremely helpful.

but i have had no experience with motecs, apart from hearing that their software is dinosaur compared to everything else (except pfc )

[Rz]

can the e11v2 or the sm2 do boost against roadspeed or is it only boost/rpm?
i read the e11 brochure and couldnt find that info.

[Uncle Arthur]

Coming over to the dark side eh You have MSD ignition too IIRC, better check that the MoTec will drive that, I was told that a DIS6 or whatever its called could be problematical.

M600 is ~ $3K from Paul at Staffordtune, thats whats going on the Nissan V6. Sequential injection, direct drive to six LS coils, turbo/accelerator maps, full VVT, traction control etc etc. I'm not rich so its not for posing

EDIT: M600 will do boost against road speed and all that shit.

[Supashake]

Most current ECUs Map boost against roadspeed (and TPS-temp-etc etc)and a few have full sequential injection and ign to at least 8 cylinders and enough inputs-outputs to run anything you can dream of.Look around as many have much more than the basic Motecs at a much lower price and no need for unlocking codes etc.

[Tripper]

The question is what is the cost of support and updates as MOTEC provide them for free

[Billzilla]

Why do so many people that really know very little about Motec's make comments on them?
Most of the above is totally wrong.

[Rz]

interesting.
well , e11 v motec m4 pro , both come in around the ~$2300 mark , which do you go for given your not worried about having sequential fire on a 6 cyl ?

[GreyBeard]

mmm... MoTeC... is good.
(in a very deep voice)

[psi999]

Looks to be a bit out of your price range, but for a full house unused Motec M800 (upgraded to M880?) & sensors it seems to be not a bad deal

http://www.boostcruising.com/forums/...owtopic=196923

Bill will love you for ever too

[Rz]

hahah
a m800 is nice and all but so overkill ...
just d/loaded the e11v2 brochure , and the boost is only mappable against rpm , so that rules that out.
any links to a autronic manual ?

[oldcorollas]

interesting.
well , e11 v motec m4 pro , both come in around the ~$2300 mark , which do you go for given your not worried about having sequential fire on a 6 cyl ?

rather than think of it as sequential vs batch fire, think of it as individual cylinder trim for injectors vs whatever they spray out (and whatever mismatching they have)....

the actual phasing of the sequential bit makes not a huge difference (but some.. but not so much at anything near WOT)...

[Billzilla]

rather than think of it as sequential vs batch fire, think of it as individual cylinder trim for injectors vs whatever they spray out (and whatever mismatching they have)....

the actual phasing of the sequential bit makes not a huge difference (but some.. but not so much at anything near WOT)...

Yep.
It mostly helps with emissions, though there's a little more power in it at middling revs. The engine can also idle a little nicer with it. (sometimes)

[pH@tTm@N]

i got my e11v2 from horsepowerinabox.com WITH plug and play loom and maps for supra for $1850.00 It was a special but I think you can email and ask for that price.

[oldcorollas]

Yep.
It mostly helps with emissions, though there's a little more power in it at middling revs. The engine can also idle a little nicer with it. (sometimes)

thats true, but we are taling maybe 5% or so, and at low throttle.. 5% is 2/5ths of fark all anyway

but i was more thinking about the injector which is 5% out from the others at WOT
esp on big turbo motor.. last thing you want is to have to enrich all injectors to cater for the leanest one... seems a waste of powah opportunity... esp when you could trim each cylinder to be correct and maximise output....
but i'm a tech whore so i like making things right

[Rz]

unless your reading each cylinder seperately with a 02 sensor how could you hope to know which one needs trimming ?

[Billzilla]

unless your reading each cylinder seperately with a 02 sensor how could you hope to know which one needs trimming ?

Check each spark plug.
The colour tells the story.
Then do an individual cylinder trim from there.

[pH@tTm@N]

i was informed that a very fast reacting wideband o2 sensor will respond fast enough (at sensible rpm) that you will pick up which cylinder is leaner etc. Not sure if it works in practise?

[Billzilla]

i was informed that a very fast reacting wideband o2 sensor will respond fast enough (at sensible rpm) that you will pick up which cylinder is leaner etc. Not sure if it works in practise?

Yes, they can read each gas pulse as it goes past, but figuring out which cylinder it's cme from is hard to do.

[Rz]

you guys are having a lend , just how many shades of grey do you think you can see ?
you wont see a couple cc's difference between injectors evidenced on a plug but what do i know ?

[Billzilla]

you guys are having a lend , just how many shades of grey do you think you can see ?
you wont see a couple cc's difference between injectors evidenced on a plug but what do i know ?

Nah serious mate.
But yes you're right, it's pretty hard to get it exactly right using the plug colour trick.
FWIW there's kits you can get that have a glass core in the plug, so you can see into the combustion chamber and check the flame colours to get them all the same. They're pretty crappy though.

[Rz]

fairy muff.
anyhow im pretty much sold on the m4 pro , its the only one that has the boost mapping i need.
i dont see any other ecu's with the same features.

[Jason Broadhurst]

Check each spark plug.
The colour tells the story.
Then do an individual cylinder trim from there.

Is that accurate enough to make it worth while?

[oldcorollas]

why not exhaust gas temps?

i was only suggesting that a reason for sequential was the individual trim.. which may only be a few%...
you would either need very sensitive wideband (not many have a feedback loop that can respond 300 times per second, and the turbo churning up the exhaust makes it harder still), or gas temps to tell if you were going rich/lean (or at least diffferent to surrounding cylinders )
plug colours.... hmm, i wouldn't be trimming 1 or 2% by that....

[Billzilla]

plug colours.... hmm, i wouldn't be trimming 1 or 2% by that....

True, and that's what I mentioned above. It's not that accurate.
FWIW the really serious guy make two sets of extractors - one with a lambda probe in each runner and an otherwise identical set that doesn't have that.
They sense each cylinder and compensate thusly.
The M#00 series of Motecs can input something like 16 lambda probes through the CAN bus, and the software can also display that many readings.

[thechuckster]

hard trick would be finding O2 sensors that can survive pre-turbo gas temps and pressures... I've seen temp probes pre-turbo, but not O2 sensors but maybe there's some exotic hardware that can withstand the conditions?

[Billzilla]

hard trick would be finding O2 sensors that can survive pre-turbo gas temps and pressures... I've seen temp probes pre-turbo, but not O2 sensors but maybe there's some exotic hardware that can withstand the conditions?

Just use an IR gun on each exhaust runner, that's about as close as you're going to get.
In my racer, the temps are to within 2degC or each other at all times. (that we've measured them)

[Rz]

ok ive just been told im a complete moron.
the sm2 will do what i need so im busy reading up.
my tuner fucking loves them aswell , so definetly a option.