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Thread: Garage Takai IPRA AE86 (56k die)

  1. #451
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Hehe, sure will do. Infact PM me an offer i guess.
    Chris
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  2. #452
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Well thats the end of another year of racing for me.

    Nationals weekend has come and gone with some good racing and some bitter disappointment. The car was performing quite well in the first qualifying session until it started bucketing down, managed to get my fastest qualifying lap in as a warmup lap before it started bucketing down properly, and then the V band clamp came of the exhaust and it dissappeared, never to be seen again. So we welded the primaries to the secondaries before Quali 2
    Second qualifying session went pretty well, although i had a weird ignition issue at the end of that session. Basically it would hit something like ignition cut at ~5500rpm and wouldnt go anywhere.
    Before the first heat we changed the coils and plugs and it seemed that the ignition problem was fixed, at least mostly.
    The first heat showed up something a bit more annoying, we had a weird issue with it hitting redline oddly, but it was only happening around 7700rpm, so i just thought it was the ignition problem back with vengance. So we fiddled around with it some more, changed dwell settings and again its seemed to be fine while free revving.
    Went out in the second heat and it just got worse. Quickly realised that it was actually the clutch slipping not the ignition dying. So after that race we started to pull the gearbox out, only to find that it got about an inch off the engine and then wouldnt go any further at all. Just jammed up solid.

    Packed it in for the day and retired the next morning. Got it home after the end of the day and after dinner i pulled the engine and gearbox. After working through the starter motor hole i eventually managed to remove all 6 pressure plate bolts. This is what i found:


    Bang, the clutch had let go in fairly spectacular fashion. I think the main chunks of the friction material were only being held in place by the protruding rivets. And im not sure whether the center damage was done by us reefing the box around to try and get it out, or whether it was done in car. Either way its busted.
    The reason the box wouldnt come out was that the spigot bearing was jammed on the end of the input shaft, and that was holding hte friction plate together enough. When i started pulling the engine out the second of those springs fell out of the bellhousing and the other had fallen out when we loaded it onto the trailer.

    What i really should have done is looked at the data trace from the datalogger and i would have seen this:

    The green trace is the RPM and you can quite clearly see it slipping a lot from 7500rpm onwards. In the later races this started from about 5500-6000rpm and would just slip to redline.

    Oddly enough this isnt the first time ive made an Exedy clutch go bang in this way, back in 2006 i did this:

    Back then the friction material jammed up the clutch entirely and i couldnt disengage the clutch at all. Thankfully this time it held together enough for the two heats i did on Saturday.

    Ohwell, thats the end of another year for me. Next year ill be moving to Vic, and hopefully we can start over again

    Hoping to have the car rebuilt soon at least for transport. Thinking about doing a few upgrades while im at it
    Chris
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    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  3. #453
    weirdo F|sh's Avatar
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    are these organic faces? I thought you would of gone a sprung brass button clutch with all the upgrades you ahve been doing
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  4. #454
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by F|sh View Post
    are these organic faces? I thought you would of gone a sprung brass button clutch with all the upgrades you ahve been doing
    That clutch is what they used to use in the old Lotus Elise Cup back in 2008/2009. Its all the right specs for the T50/4AG combination so i was using that successfully after the last full organic one spat it.

    Theoretically it should have held, the Cup cars were about the same as my previous engine. Evidently the extra power was too much.

    Not anymore though, ill have to go to a sprung brass button.
    Last edited by takai; 20-11-11 at 10:06 PM.
    Chris
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    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  5. #455
    Owns a Ferrari BeverlyHillsCop's Avatar
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    Has something broken everytime now u've driven this car?? u'd swear it was a rotary!!! hard luck!
    /csh Racing

  6. #456
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Nah, something has broken every event ive entered it into. Its been reliable for the practice days.... wish it was the other way around.
    Chris
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    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  7. #457
    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BeverlyHillsCop View Post
    Has something broken everytime now u've driven this car?? u'd swear it was a rotary!!! hard luck!
    If it was a rotary it would have exploded before he got to the track...

    see you on the dark side of the moon
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  8. #458
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Hahhaa, ironically the rotary on pole for the final didnt make it to the grid. Alternator failed before he got there.
    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  9. #459
    Registered User Paul M's Avatar
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    aaarrrrrrhhhh, bad luck mate......

  10. #460
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Update has certainly been a long time coming, and that is mainly because i have done approximately SFA to the car since Nationals. I basically threw it back together again with a new sprung brass button clutch so it could be transported over to Vic on a car carrier. Since then it has just sat on stands for 8 months while i have been busy with the rest of life. In the intervening period i have sold off the current ECU setup, and started collecting stuff for the upgrades while travelling around the world. Firstly:


    Haltech Sprint 500 from Dale, DTM mirrors and various connectors from Goodwood FoS stands, Racepak interface cable and 4 sensor addon, Deutsch HDP 20 29 pin bulkhead connector and some other bits.


    Stainless exhaust bits and an Ultraracing panhard rod that i picked up in Malaysia on our way back, with new Whiteline bushes.


    Small assortment of AN fittings and fuel filter etc that i have picked up from various sources for the new fuel system.

    On the cards now is the following:
    • Wire in new Haltech
    • Wire up Racepak Dash to Haltech CAN bus
    • Redo engine loom with Deutsch QR connector
    • Build new rear exit exhaust
    • Redo entire fuel system with new hardlines and AN fittings throughout
    • Redo rear suspension with different rate springs and new panhard
    • Build new oil catch can setup
    • Replace front calipers to change braking ratios


    Have a few other bits and pieces to do as well, just tidying up some parts, and making it generally more reliable (knock on wood).

    Currently trying to decide on two things though, firstly where to put the QR and secondly where to put the oil catch can. Options below:

    Thinking that the QR would be good in the right hand spot as its easy to get to and would mean that i can get a nice gentle 90deg curve out of the wiring loom. However its right ontop of the extractors. According to Deutsch the connector is good for 125degC, and i woudl probably heatshield it too, but still not sure. The AS connectors are only 150deg too, so im probably worrying over nothing. Thoughts?

    For now though have some photos of the car from Nationals:


    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  11. #461
    Registered User choppo's Avatar
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    Nice bits you have collected!

    On a side note, and i realise the car is turning right in each photo, but the LH rear wheel is negative cambered to buggery? I know nothing about the 86, so just a curious post
    Opinions are like arseholes. Everyone has one.

  12. #462
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Arse end is live axle with no changes, so its 0deg plus axle twist/suspension travel.
    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
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    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  13. #463
    aka SpaZdA (tm) mondo2000's Avatar
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    Put the catch can under the wiper motor.

    Any reason you didn't go for a rose jointed panhard?
    Boycott temporary street circuits and support permanent racetracks for club level motorsport and driver training.

  14. #464
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Want it easier to access than under the wiper motor, fitting 2L in there wont be so much fun. Plus eventually IPRA regs may allow me to extend the cage to the strut towers.... not holding my breath on that one though.

    As for why not rose jointed, it woudl certainly have been easier to find one, but IPRA regs limit me to elastomeric bushings where they were originally fitted. Hence the UltraRacing one.
    Last edited by takai; 24-09-12 at 08:45 PM.
    Chris
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    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  15. #465
    cruisin' tha isles MRGREATWALLMAN's Avatar
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    2l? as in 3S/beams etc?
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  16. #466
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    2L as in thats what CAMS specifies is the minimum size for a catch can
    Chris
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    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  17. #467
    Registered User Momus's Avatar
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    Lateral location is free.
    You can use rose joints on the Panhard, or, better, fit a Watts.

  18. #468
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    9.3 Bushes: Elastomeric bushes used at suspension pivot points may be replaced by other elastomeric bushings.
    That doesnt read like i can put rose joints in there.
    Chris
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    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  19. #469
    Registered User Momus's Avatar
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    9.10 Rear suspension components: Devices for the lateral location of the rear wheels on vehicles with a live axle, and any associated brackets on the body, are free. Brackets may be welded to the body. All other components
    which have any function in the location of the rear wheels must be retained unmodified except for bushings,
    which must comply with 9.3 above. Drive flanges, trunnions, hubs, stub axles and wheel bearings are free. It
    is permissible to add additional longitudinal rear suspension arms provided that all bushings are elastomeric
    and that the mounting points on the body only involve the addition of metal, save for a single hole per arm of
    maximum diameter 25mm.
    Last edited by Momus; 27-09-12 at 06:46 PM.

  20. #470
    Registered User Dave75's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momus View Post
    Lateral location is free.
    You can use rose joints on the Panhard, or, better, fit a Watts.
    Elastomeric bushings only... 3J regs... Section 9.10


    9 minutes too late.
    Last edited by Dave75; 24-09-12 at 09:12 PM.
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  21. #471
    Registered User Momus's Avatar
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    ^At least we got to the party...

  22. #472
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Fair cop, still running that panhard though. Watts link may come down the track, but Andy, ChrisO and Justen are all plenty quick with just an elastomeric panhard, so will go from there.
    The main reason im upgrading that is that the UR one you can adjust on car, wheras you have to take the whiteline one off to do that.
    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  23. #473
    Registered User Andy San's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takai View Post
    Fair cop, still running that panhard though. Watts link may come down the track, but Andy, ChrisO and Justen are all plenty quick with just an elastomeric panhard, so will go from there.
    The main reason im upgrading that is that the UR one you can adjust on car, wheras you have to take the whiteline one off to do that.
    Mine did good times with a banana panhard rod on it:


    goes to show they don't really do much in standard form...

  24. #474
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    I wouldnt recommend using any of the electrical terminals that you have in your box on a race car...

    -Jamie

  25. #475
    Fuckin loose cunt aye fat910's Avatar
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    Whats wrong with scotch locks?
    They say i know fuck nothing, but i know fuck all!

  26. #476
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Haha. I bought scotch locks for hooking up the bullbar indicators on the ute. Oh and the stezza .

    I do use the Narva terms for non essential items in the car though, switches for fuel gauge etc. All the essential stuff is either crimped soldered and heatshrunk or Deutsch.
    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  27. #477
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    It is only my recommendation that you use this style of terminal instead.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crimped8vv2.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	32.2 KB 
ID:	60137

    No more expensive if you buy it at the right place, and a far more reliable crimp method.

    -Jamie

  28. #478
    SpecsTestiesWallet&Watch crack's Avatar
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    What places would you recommend for that kind of stuff? The auto elec suppliers I have tried in Brisbane have been no help for that particular style of connector.

  29. #479
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Where do you get those type of copper splices from? I've been looking for ages for those. In the past I have made my own from cut down 1/4in spade connectors (will put a photo up later)
    Chris
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    I cant get no sleep...
    AE86 race car thread is finally up to date | Supposedly i have a new daily project too
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  30. #480
    Owns a Ferrari BeverlyHillsCop's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cossie55 View Post
    It is only my recommendation that you use this style of terminal instead.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	crimped8vv2.jpg 
Views:	39 
Size:	32.2 KB 
ID:	60137

    No more expensive if you buy it at the right place, and a far more reliable crimp method.

    -Jamie
    QFT...
    I've lost count how much $$$ I spent on a full milspec loom with autosport connectors etc.. but I trust these things more than any other kind of crimp method...
    /csh Racing

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