Hyundai Excel Sports Sedan

[gxxr]

Just got a quote to build a chassis.

starting from 20k and you supply the materials.

That's 20K of labor, shows the amount of work that goes into these things.

Building is one thing, operating another. The Carling Datto was 17k to run per round back in the early 90s. I hear tell, a Sydney stalwart and past president of the association is currently spending 21k using the usual sbc.

Your mate would have undoubtedly found the DGB not up to the task either, that alone to o/h after each round would typically run 5 or 6 in broken and worn out bits behind the datto ~ 1200hp @ 2.1 bar on dyno, 800 in race trim from 2.8 l. The truck like VGA(?) is the one to go for apparently......50k new several years back when the Aussie was worse than it is now.

[NISMOgemini]

ratio of pages in this thread to photos of excel is lacking :P
more pics

[edo]

Who made the new blocks? Nissan? Mecachrome?

Profi : awesome build.

Mecachrome...built to look like the datto donks. As you might imagine they didnt build many, they were only for the Newman Haas team.

[tremolo]

How have i missed this thread?

This is the most demented exercise I've ever seen, it's fucking awesome.

[profi]

Rockers roughly milled out and brackets tacked into place.

[carcrazy]

Very interesting build, man this thing is going to be a hoot to drive when its done.

[flopper]

The reason the v8's are so competitive is that no one has built a strong turbo engine. The best attempt so far was bobby irving who had a sr20 with a stock bottom end and wasnt far off the front runners until it got hot.
The front running cars are making 750hp and limited to 7800rpm in a 6 litre engine.

That is somewhat my point though, that many people wouldn't build and develop something from scratch, only to find out it ends up with unforeseen, difficult and/or expensive to fix problems when they could buy what is effectively a complete, proven package.

Sure there are probably a few, small capacity turbo engine packages around, but the number of them (and cost) surely wouldn't compare to the V8s? I'm all for diversity (and parity), but I can understand people sticking with the 'status quo' of sorts simply to get competivite with minimal outlay, not that we're talking cheap motorsport here.

Watching a bunch of SBCs go around is not at all a bad thing, but more makes of engine would make things more interesting from a tech perspective.

Are turbo cars limited (rev/boost/restrictor etc) in any way?

The block has to bade from the original material the production block was made from. Bugger alloy chev would be nice.

Nothing stopping anyone from using an LS engine though...

Anyway, back to the Excel. How much extra do you think it will weigh with the V8 vs the SR? Is the Apart from the extra weight of the engine itself, do you think you'll have to upgrade much to cope that extra power? Going by the above quote, I assume the Dodge Small block is Aluminium head, Iron block? What sort of ballpark power figure would you be looking at for that?

such a garage of cool projects

[profi]

That is somewhat my point though, that many people wouldn't build and develop something from scratch, only to find out it ends up with unforeseen, difficult and/or expensive to fix problems when they could buy what is effectively a complete, proven package.

Thats why the vg30 would be nice its a proven package in other classes.

Watching a bunch of SBCs go around is not at all a bad thing, but more makes of engine would make things more interesting from a tech perspective.

I wouldnt put a chev in the hyundai just for the reason that everyone has one. The class is supposed to be based on creativity.

Are turbo cars limited (rev/boost/restrictor etc) in any way?

Multivalve engine you add 75kg to the min weight.
Unlimited boost.
They have the authority to rev limit you, if your to fast.
No restrictor.
Capacity multiplication of 1.7 so for example nissan 350z engine turbo. is a 6 litre + 75kg for multivalve = 1200kg

Nothing stopping anyone from using an LS engine though...

Id like to see one. But you need to make upwards of 750hp to be fast. Whats the availability like for after market heads ect?

How much extra do you think it will weigh with the V8 vs the SR?

Im not exactly sure. The sr20 should weigh around 900kg, but with the v8 the chassis is strong enough and suspension is strong enough. The only thing i will have to change is the diff. With a Dodge it should be on the minimum weight 1125kg.

The uprights are able to take bigger brakes the rear cradel for the diff is very easily modifiable. The car can fit 13" wide wheels. The only pain in the arse is making a new exhaust system.

I assume the Dodge Small block is Aluminium head, Iron block?

Yep

What sort of ballpark power figure would you be looking at for that?

That engine is making around the high to mid 600hp mark. We have some newer spec dodges that will make 800hp comfortably.

Ones coming in the next shipment, It was put on the dyno with and old carby as is (un tuned) with a 1 inch spacer and made 780yhp

[gxxr]

The Nissan to go for now is this one by all accounts...



VGs did have a tendency to split bores when the "right" piston/gudgeon pin combo was used. There was a small run of 20 or so alloy blocks made, asking was US40,000 each - all you need to do was crack out the magnetic paint as one infamous incident demonstrated. I'd imagine they were depleted somewhat when the Pond racer left a smoking hole in the ground. Also of interest, several 5 valve heads were cast for a 5l V8 project - just need to find that 3.5 litre V block with appropriate bore spacing.

The Keen car has demonstrated an SR20 is there, or abouts - just he couldn't or wouldn't support it with budget and then the v8 boys hatched the minimum weight limits to support the status quo which eroded competitiveness.

[Gammaboy]

the v8 boys hatched the minimum weight limits to support the status quo which eroded competitiveness.

Pre the weight limits I remember seeing a *really* light rx7 running up near the front with a 13BT - but it was so light the body panels visibly flexed at speed.

[Ze]

Profi : The LS series seem to have huge aftermarket support , definitely in that way the successor to the SBC.

Gxxr : Couldn't one overcome the split bore problem on the VG's with bore sleeves?

When it comes to the 5-valve heads , didn't they end up not having any performance advantage over 4-valve heads? Billzilla seemed to think this was because of dead spots between the valves (ie the middle valve cops a large dead spot on both sides) and the lack of squish areas.

[Billzilla]

When it comes to the 5-valve heads , didn't they end up not having any performance advantage over 4-valve heads? Billzilla seemed to think this was because of dead spots between the valves (ie the middle valve cops a large dead spot on both sides) and the lack of squish areas.

Pretty close, yes.
For a forced induction engine I think they're a good thing as they have huge valve area, so for the same boost they should make a bit more power. The smaller valves allow for more revs, but the downside to the valve gear is that they are forced to use little cam buckets (23mm on the 4AGE 20'vs verses the 28mm on the 16v's, and 31mm on some FE heads) so you're limited as to the size of the cam you can use.
But, more boost covers a multitude of sins.

[gxxr]

Gxxr : Couldn't one overcome the split bore problem on the VG's with bore sleeves?

When it comes to the 5-valve heads , didn't they end up not having any performance advantage over 4-valve heads? Billzilla seemed to think this was because of dead spots between the valves (ie the middle valve cops a large dead spot on both sides) and the lack of squish area

Bore/Stroke ratio was messed around with to get what was thought the optimum...possibly a monoblock type sleeving a la Beninca might have been the way to go, just requiring (more) money...but even running at 2.8 and smaller bore seemed sufficient and reliable enough.

There is a SAE paper out there which if dim memory serves was by a couple of Japanese engineers, where they built and tested several engines with up to 8 valves(?) per cylinder....the 5 valve came out top of the pops. As mentioned, actuation is the real problem when looking for big lift as typical in N/A application and if the big Nissan had rocker/follower setup as per VH45 practice, would have negated that issue.

Probably enough hijacking!

[takai]

Pic of the old Beninca Sports Sedan here - http://www.beninca.com.au/Gallery1.htm

Ahhh, the memories.

Pretty sure that TurboGTV was the one that punted into Sandown pitlane wall in 2004 on Cup Day

[Greg Rust]

Jeepers I can't believe I also missed this, Have been spending too much time reading your Mustang thread (which incidently needs updating). Love the pics of various mega dollar mega HP engines.

Seeing the fabrication of race suspension and components really gives you grand plans and ideas!!!

[HoonBoy]

Just got a quote to build a chassis.

starting from 20k and you supply the materials.

That's 20K of labor, shows the amount of work that goes into these things.

Cheaper then I thought, but still more then is in my budget...

What shocks do you use? Been looking at the QA1 double adjustables for the rear of my car.

[profi]

Cheaper then I thought, but still more then is in my budget...

What shocks do you use? Been looking at the QA1 double adjustables for the rear of my car.

That was for a budget chassis.

I have some shocks to roll the car around with, spax. But once it gets closer to being completed i will buy some 4 way adjustable ohlins.

[HoonBoy]

2way will be enough adjustment for me to stuff it up

[profi]

I got heaps done today/ emptied the pocket.

I purchased
-new seat
-supercar radiator
-4 way adjustable ohlins rear shocks.

We also brought a v8 supercar.

[Fondles]

We also brought a v8 supercar.

As you do !!!

[profi]

As you do !!!

Yeh why not have a bit of fun

[F|sh]

is it a BF green and black?

[HoonBoy]

It's F1 weekend, you should of bought an open wheeler.

[profi]

is it a BF green and black?

nope bright yellow AU and its in a million bits

It's F1 weekend, you should of bought an open wheeler.

formula 5000

[F|sh]

ah cool cool

[profi]

I wish that was my car, ex stone bros BF.

Whos car is it?

[F|sh]

nfi apparently its a 3J car but has the larry bar and pumped guards.

[profi]

found this.

Young Ben McCashney an old IPRA VIC member Has got his first Supercar drive
this Year in L2 V8'S With SBR backing He starts at winton the next round (good luck mate)

There is a story about it in this weeks AA

Cheers Dan Vereker

[profi]

New paint scheme. What do you guys think?

[HoonBoy]

What's with the "Lightning"?