2004 IPRA Monaro 6 litre

[takai]

why do circuit guys only use MS??? you can get a lighter stronger cage from moly every time..

Unless things have changed with CAMS, they make it a pain to do moly cages. From memory Liam had to jump through multiple hoops for his (pun intended)

[10sec rx7]

typical fucking cams... useless cunts

[Greg Rust]

I would have had to supply a professional drawing of my cage to an engineering company in order for them to analyse it. Cost was an extra $2k for just this service if I wanted to use Cr-Mo

[10sec rx7]

this is what i dont understand, 80% of drag cars are done in moly.. they have some massive shunts and they always hold up fine..

[ahk068]

this is what i dont understand, 80% of drag cars are done in moly.. they have some massive shunts and they always hold up fine..

I think the difference lies that most drag related shunts are single vehicle, front on impact with limited likelihood of ending on your roof. Eg Andra tech inspector told door bars are there to hold the front legs in place. Weight isn't such an issue with circuit guys due to class limits also.

[10sec rx7]

huh?? pretty much every shunt in a drag car will end up on its roof..

[ahk068]

huh?? pretty much every shunt in a drag car will end up on its roof..

With all due respect, are you saying as soon as a car tags the wall it flips onto its roof?

[Teamgemini]

Do what everyone else does and just build a moly cage but log book it as mild steel?

[bigmuz]

With all due respect, are you saying as soon as a car tags the wall it flips onto its roof?

Have you been to the drags for a while? I would say that twice as many drag cars end up upside down as circuit cars in a given year.

[ahk068]

Have you been to the drags for a while? I would say that twice as many drag cars end up upside down as circuit cars in a given year.

Yeah, ran a track for a couple years, was tech inspector and andra steward for a while. My comment was more in reference to a cams spec cage which most are mild steel vs an andra spec moly cage. They're designed for different impact and as such weight is less a factor in a cams car. My comment also was speaking of cams spec cars in general and not circuit incidents specifically. I'd hate to be in an andra spec car as it went into a tree at 100kph.

[irsa76]

With all due respect, are you saying as soon as a car tags the wall it flips onto its roof?

Just looking at youtube does suggest a fair few cars end up on their roof, talking door slammer/street cars here.

[rowdytoot]

Unless things have changed with CAMS, they make it a pain to do moly cages. From memory Liam had to jump through multiple hoops for his (pun intended)

Yup need FEA or to certify a moly cage under cams and FIA requirements.

The FIA has effectively banned 4130 cages and now T45 is the material of choice in high end cages

[10sec rx7]

With all due respect, are you saying as soon as a car tags the wall it flips onto its roof?

i would say 8 out of 10 cars that hit the will square on end up on there roof...

anyway im off to andrews race cars to get some more 4130 to finish my cage

[choppo]

I think I mentioned it elsewhere, but the Molly cage in CAMS/ROPS spec will end up the same weight as a MS. Way back when, you could (without homologating/engineering) build the cage from thinner wall Molly, hence the weight saving. These days you have to use the same diameters and wall thickness for both materials, hence no weight saving unless you want to spring for an individual engineering (adds $3k-ish) jobbie.

On a side note, is there any real world difference between CDS and CDW?? It's one thing I have not checked with the new builder.... does it matter?

EDIT: Thought it may be of interest to others CDS is obviously seamless and doesn't have any tendency to split open. CDW whilst being acceptable by CAMS should be indexed properly to ensure the seam is located correctly to the bend to lessen the chance of seam splitting. It a pain in the arse to locate the seam at times and there is still a risk of splitting.

I've also found CDS to be more consistent with wall thickness than CDW which is much faster to produce & hence cheaper.

CDS tube, TIG welded with ER80s-2 filler rod (ER80 over ER70 as 80 has a higher tensile strength & -2 over -6 due to the higher silicon content and better deoxidisation properties giving a cleaner weld pool)

[choppo]

anyway im off to andrews race cars to get some more 4130 to finish my cage

I'm off to pull this car apart

[10sec rx7]

pull it hard son

[TOTAL]

what gets me is you probably paid a fuck load for that cage.. and its fucking MIG welded and probably mild steel..

what is it with circuit racers and mig welded cages?? dont they know how to use a tig??

Its not MS and mig welded.

Its pvc with some nice silastic work.

[Greg Rust]

Is the current cage no good Choppo?

[choppo]

Is the current cage no good Choppo?

I may have to clarify this.

I have (well had) 2 Monaros. The first was the yellow/silver one as this thread is all about..... the one that got caged twice. That is gone, sold, gonski, back to the guy I bought it off and who did the cage (twice) and all the bits missing. He bought it back off me for less than 1/2 I bought it for. Some sucker (like me) will buy it off him and race it.

I have borrowed a second Monaro, an '05 VZ (that is NOT mine if Shitcunt is watching) that is a complete car. That is the one that i'm currently posting about.

Might be better is I post a new thread. That last one had the 'moccka' on it. New one won't

[Greg Rust]

Ah roger that. Makes sense now.

[choppo]

New thread coming in the morning. Have not removed a piece off it yet (had to clean up some more shit today). Will be boring at first, but will quickly ramp up.

[darwinschops]

Awesome. have been following, look forward to the progress mate.

[F|sh]

Choppo look at 1025. Basically hydraulic pipe in its intended use. Very strong and bypass CDS and just under CroMo in strength. 450 Mpa vs 440 Mpa vs 350Mpa.

Much easier to get passed FWIU.

http://www.efunda.com/Materials/allo...le=AISI%201025

Some more reading too

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=381466