TDI VW Tiguan Diesel Particulate filter

[scrad]

Father in law has a TDI Tiguan, and has had a shit of a time keeping the Diesel Particulate Filter clean. He has taken it on long highway runs, hard runs up the hills, everything the VW stealership has suggested and it hasn't cleared up. Yesterday it has finally cracked the shits and gone into limp mode and takes minutes to reach 100km/h (no joke).

VW wants $4000 odd for a new filter and he will be back at square one. Even though the thing has only done about 20k, he has said they told him its not a warranty thing because the book says how to drive it right.

I have done a bit of research myself and found cunts in the UK with the same dramas who end up getting a DFP Delete pipe and a retune for half the cost of the VW option and ending up with more power.

Finding this shit in Australia has been a bit harder. Does anyone know someone/somewhere who can do this and whats actually involved? I'm thinking the pressure sensor will need to be tricked into thinking there is a functioning filter in place for everything to run smoothly.

Also, if it helps, I'm fairly certain the thing is identical to the TDI Golf, so that stuff should fit up properly.

[Grunt]

I'd be spending my time working out exactly how to get the dealership to pay it mate.

I find it pretty hard to believe their explanation/avoidance on a sub 20k km and presumably less than 12month old car .

Good luck

[dsmith]

Broom handle up its arse like you're hi-flowing a cat

[Madhatr]

I'd be spending my time working out exactly how to get the dealership to pay it mate.

I find it pretty hard to believe their explanation/avoidance on a sub 20k km and presumably less than 12month old car .

Good luck

you wont have any luck. The best you'll get out of them when its warning about it is to run it through the cleaning cycle where it heats it up while sitting in the dealership. If it gets to the warning that it needs to be replaced, its too late. The unit itself isnt actually faulty thats why you wont get them to replace it, its simply blocked up.

Quality of diesel being used makes a big difference too, where does your old man fill up?

[scrad]

He would use Caltex, being that its the closest to him. We are in Townsville though, so fuck knows if that means we get shit diesel.

And yeah, I shoulda mentioned that the embargo at the stealership has been going on for some time now, and as such its gotten to a point where the thing is undrivable. I realise that its just blocked and not faulty, but from what The Internet suggests, DIY cleaning is a hit and miss thing. He just wants to fuck the thing off so he doesn't have to spend $4k now to fix it if it will just be blocked in another 12-18 months.

[Uncle Arthur]

Chase warranty, if the part is not faulty then it's a VW design fault to supply a vehicle not fit for the purpose. Which in the case of a vehicle is to be driven in a non abusive manner. If VW won't cough up then do a DIY small claim against them. Geez, why do people bother with this second rate euro crap.

[Madhatr]

I havent heard of anyone getting them to do anything about it, because, well, its not actually faulty. You can liken it to you running too rich and coating your cat so it doesnt function properly. The manufacturer isnt going to come to the party to fix it. As the OP said you do have warnings in the owners manual about it and how you need longer trips to get it hotter and help clean out the DPF. Also to note, it doesnt simply happen, it generally starts warning you about the need for service before it really cracks the shits and demands you replace it.

The DPF pipe isnt really a problem, you can import one yourself, but you need to ecu flashed too. Havent looked into it too deeply as havent had a problem, but in AUS I know you could start with http://www.optimumcode.com.au/ who are the dealers for CC in the uk that can do the dpf delete recode. You could also try http://www.rennenhaus.com.au/ as I know they were doing a lot of exhausts, miltek stuff for example. As much as some people hate it, but try vw watercooled forums too as im sure you are bound to find a thread about who is doing what.

[Uncle Arthur]

Does not matter if the part is faulty or not, everything sold is required to be fit for its intended purpose and that includes vehicles. In this case the vehicle is not fit for its intended purpose which is to drive it around like you would ordinarily do without it stuffing up. Nothing to do with the vehicle's warranty and the 'fit for purpose' requirement cannot be avoided by VW or anyone else no matter what the vehicle's handbook or anything else says.

As well as a small claim, report the problem to Consumer Affairs just to get it on the record. But I guess typically the consumer will complain but not do anything about it.

[Madhatr]

It is fit and works as intended, how does it not?. Lots of short trips or poor quality diesel sees them clog up. In regular use they go through regeneration cycles that usually keeps them working, they trap particulates, the dpf heats up and it burns them off. The system is pretty detailed in that if it reports levels are high it switches off the EGR system and runs a little fuel in the exhaust cycle to send it through the filter which burns off and brings up the exhaust temp.

They warn you when its getting full and suggest you refer to manual for driving periods on how to clean it out or take it to a dealer where they can do a regen cycle at the dealership which is generally thought of as better than just driving it. However, if you get to the point where its clogged after ignoring the warnings, its too late. As the OP said, there is more to the story as it didnt just suddenly stop working. Actually, even that is wrong, its not that it has stopped working at all, its that its clogged with particulate (its actually ash, not soot that is the problem) and other grime which it cant burn off. Big problem is if you arent running low sulphur diesel in them, along with the correct oil, sure fire way to clog it up.

[Stix Zadinia]

rent TDI golf and swap?

[Boxer]

Chase warranty, if the part is not faulty then it's a VW design fault to supply a vehicle not fit for the purpose. Which in the case of a vehicle is to be driven in a non abusive manner. If VW won't cough up then do a DIY small claim against them. Geez, why do people bother with this second rate euro crap.

WTF? RoW vehicles dont have DPF's blocking up??

One of my friends nopics had her Pajero into the stealership for the exact same issue. Luckily she got it towed (at her cost) before it became completely blocked and a regen corrected it

.......and this was immediately after a 150km highway drive

[Uncle Arthur]

It is fit and works as intended, how does it not?. Lots of short trips or poor quality diesel sees them clog up. In regular use they go through regeneration cycles that usually keeps them working, they trap particulates, the dpf heats up and it burns them off. The system is pretty detailed in that if it reports levels are high it switches off the EGR system and runs a little fuel in the exhaust cycle to send it through the filter which burns off and brings up the exhaust temp.

They warn you when its getting full and suggest you refer to manual for driving periods on how to clean it out or take it to a dealer where they can do a regen cycle at the dealership which is generally thought of as better than just driving it. However, if you get to the point where its clogged after ignoring the warnings, its too late. As the OP said, there is more to the story as it didnt just suddenly stop working. Actually, even that is wrong, its not that it has stopped working at all, its that its clogged with particulate (its actually ash, not soot that is the problem) and other grime which it cant burn off. Big problem is if you arent running low sulphur diesel in them, along with the correct oil, sure fire way to clog it up.

Of course what I said can only apply if the facts are appropriate, geez. As far as fuel goes, if the fuel available in AU is not suitable for VW's 'technology' why are VW selling vehicles in AU with such 'technology'? Which is my point and tht's it from me.

[Boxer]

^Its not VW's technology - its emissions devices technology that all manufacturers share.

/point missed

[Madhatr]

Of course what I said can only apply if the facts are appropriate, geez. As far as fuel goes, if the fuel available in AU is not suitable for VW's 'technology' why are VW selling vehicles in AU with such 'technology'? Which is my point and tht's it from me.

Dude, you know very well that the quality of petrol differs between brands and stations sometimes. Well, the same thing happens with diesel. Good quality, ultra low sulphur diesel is all you should be running in these. In other countries they come with a warning about buying DPF fitted vehicles if the fuel quality is lower as this can happen. 20k is pretty extreme though, but it must have been coming up with warnings before it was totally blocked.

Because emissions requirements probably now mandate manufacturers to produce diesel vehicles with emissions control systems such as o2 sensors and catalysts? just about anyone producing a crdi motor now will have a dpf fitted. Big expensive european cars to things like a holden cruze or hyundai i30. You cant escape them, all manufacturers have owners reporting similar problems, its not manufacturer specific.

There doesnt seem to be many reports of one actually failing, just plenty of them blocked up. When it cant burn off the particulates properly they just turn to ash and clog up the filter.

[Uncle Arthur]

^Its not VW's technology - its emissions devices technology that all manufacturers share.

/point missed

Nice try euroboy.

[josh_tsv]

So for less cash than a new DPF you can get a tune and a DFP delete pipe, sounds like a no brainer to me.

[Boxer]

Nice try euroboy.

- had many more jap cars than euro and liked all of them. (ok I lie, the KH TX3 turbo 4WD was a POS)

Clearly you are not comprehending anything madhatr is posting

cyclops

[Terribleone]

Ive said it before and Ill say it again, I dont know why people are still buying these shitboxes. Theyve been garbage forever and a day and they arent getting any better.

[scrad]

He took it back to the VW dealer, spoke at more important people louder and they had a look at it. They replaced the sensor and all is well now.

[rowdytoot]

I wrote a proper reply, but in the end I decided the the real answer is DPF are shite, and delete pipes and retunes are FTW...

[scrad]

Yeah, I think he still wants to look at doing that, so the original question still stands. Does anyone know of anywhere in Australia that can do that sorta stuff for these cars?

[caged]

Id be looking into the broom handle Hi flow. What inputs do they need anyway, Iam not familiar with vw but wouldnt it just be 2 pressure sensors and a temp probe??

[Eurorogerrevolution]

Id love to stir some shit here but everything that I wanted to say has been said
Cliffnotes:

Our fuel is shit compared to Europe , especially Germany
More emmissions controlling/regenerating devices are being fitted to all cars
Its expensive to replace

For example I had a Tiguan with similar issues , just out of warranty , so I looked into bringing in DPF from the UK . 1200 pounds + delivery . I can buy it locally for $3k . So there is no way around it .
Also if you look either in your manual or a service book you'll see it needs to be replaced every 200k km anyway so it becomes a serviceable part , but , in saying that charcoal canisters are meant to be a serviceable part that no-one seems to ever change . Oh , and yes you can dig out the dpf and run a tune to delete it . Wont mention any names but if your interested pm me and I'll give you a contact

[Beavis]

It is fit and works as intended, how does it not?. Lots of short trips or poor quality diesel sees them clog up. In regular use they go through regeneration cycles that usually keeps them working, they trap particulates, the dpf heats up and it burns them off. The system is pretty detailed in that if it reports levels are high it switches off the EGR system and runs a little fuel in the exhaust cycle to send it through the filter which burns off and brings up the exhaust temp.

Works or not works, I think one thing that is pretty shitty is that a $4k filter is considered, it seems, as a "wear item". That seems fucked.

[TonyJZX]

well cats are also serviceable items but who replaces a cat?

broom handle hi flow lol

[Marco_VESS]

So how are you supposed to maintain these things if even doing it by the book doesn't work?

[Madhatr]

Yeah, I think he still wants to look at doing that, so the original question still stands. Does anyone know of anywhere in Australia that can do that sorta stuff for these cars?

scroll up to where I said you could start looking.

[Madhatr]

Works or not works, I think one thing that is pretty shitty is that a $4k filter is considered, it seems, as a "wear item". That seems fucked.

Remember how expensive cats are/were (especially from manufacturers). Its not really a wear item, its just that nobody has the equipment to do passenger services on these things. You guys are totally missing the fact they have been used in commercial diesels for, well, ages. The filters are designed that they can been removed and cleaned, then put back into service. You basically keep using them until its ability to regenerate starts to deminish (you keep an eye on it through ecu).

The problem with passenger units is because space is a premium, they combine them with catalytic converters which means you cant remove the dpf without destroying the unit. Not all of them are combined though, some of the VW ones ive seen are seperate units, so you could cut open the case of the dpf and have the element cleaned. There are companies in both the US and the UK who are doing this now, offering up replacement cat back sections of exhaust. Think they are charging about $800 to supply a complete exhaust section with reconditioned (ie, cleaned) DPF.

[scrad]

scroll up to where I said you could start looking.

hah. cheers. i missed it when i was scrolling through quickly at work.

[Madhatr]

So how are you supposed to maintain these things if even doing it by the book doesn't work?

You have to run the proper oil, dont let someone tell you xyz is as good, only use stuff rated/reccomended by manufacturer. Basically, the thing in common is they are all low ash.

You have to run good, very low sulphur diesel. This is pretty common in AUS now, most major centres will have it, but its outer regional areas that either have higher agricultural/commercial usage or simply buy the cheapest diesel on offer that suffer.

You have warning lights at different stages, like, think in the realm of a warning light telling you its 40% full and needs regeneration. Then at 50% it requires service, then 60% it throws a glow plug light, etc. It shouldn't suddenly reach 90+ % full and send you into limp home mode without prior warning. When you get the warning, as said before the system will try and clean itself. While it does this, you need to drive at over 2000rpm for a good 15-20 mins, so, take it off down the highway and use a lower gear and run along. What it will do is bring up EGT's, when combined with the fuel its dumping into the cylinder during exhaust stroke, it raises the temp of the DPF and assists in burning off the contents. If it doesnt clear, you can go to the dealer (or anyone with a vcds scan tool) and they will trigger the regen cycle manually, bonus of this is you can actually monitor the ash content to make sure its not just a sensor and everything is clearing. It actively needs to be hot though, and for a period of time, or the result is not carbon soot like a lot of people think, but cutting one open shows fine ash which would tend to suggest it hasnt got hot enough to complete the cycle.

Trouble is, lots of city driving, just not enough o2 flowing through the motor to bring up combustion temps, especially with EGR systems working. Same with highway use actually, trundle off down the highway doing 100km/h, ours sit on about 1000rpm. Its not going to get anywhere near hot enough when the motor is under very little load and using very little fuel like that, so the best method seems to be you need to abuse it a little.

There are a whole host of other things that will cause soot build up too though, seems like such a delicate system where everything has to be working and operating like designed, but they forget the real world element. Its all down to the euro 5 emissions standards now though. So its going to be something more people come across in the future, its NOT just european vehicles that use them. As I said before, pretty much anything with a crdi motor will have one now.