What cheapskate khanacross/motorkhana/rally car v1?

[damo666]

They are more like a plough round corners. Mass positive camber round corners.. Tractor style. No power, shit box and diffs. Best left to softroading and farms

My first rally car was an RX Turbo and was pretty much the opposite of what you've said - with the centre diff locked it was sure footed and had neutral handling on everything but REALLY tight 1st gear corners, had plenty enough power, and was reliable unless you were tying to extract WRX type power out of it. It was certainly a quicker car than most similarly priced RWD cars.

Their downfall in rallying is that they get lumped in a class with other 4WD turbo cars such as RS Liberties and VR4's.
Dont discount them as a good entry level car. There is one on here for sale for $900....

[MRMOPARMAN]

My first rally car was an RX Turbo and was pretty much the opposite of what you've said - with the centre diff locked it was sure footed and had neutral handling on everything but REALLY tight 1st gear corners, had plenty enough power, and was reliable unless you were tying to extract WRX type power out of it. It was certainly a quicker car than most similarly priced RWD cars.

Their downfall in rallying is that they get lumped in a class with other 4WD turbo cars such as RS Liberties and VR4's.
Dont discount them as a good entry level car. There is one on here for sale for $900....

gusman was talking bout brumbies and L series wagons, which what i wrote is exactly what they do on corners. and they are infamous for breaking box's and diffs (duel range box) once rallying. a popular cheap mod was to get the vortex box into them.
maybe they changed the front suspension for em? oh actually ill bet money its got to do with the extra height of them compared to RX's.

then theres the front handbrake as steve said, although thats not hard to get around.

there has been a few people running them at my club, and a really well sorted RWD and an ok FWD with good driver will match/beat a stock RX.

[farmsci]

^^^ What he said, buy my shit

Really though, locked diff makes em fun on slippery surfaces, used to love launching my old one in 4x4 from the lights in the rain and 4 wheel drifting down the street. Did a few skidpan days in it and had a ball, front wheel handbrake is a little frustrating at times though. But can be fixed...

[damo666]

When locked, the "fulltime 4WD" vortex box is identical to the dual-range box (apart from ratios - I ran a dual range box in mine for most of its life, locked and run in low range). The normal 'rally' mod was to just fill them with an extra litre of oil to stop it exploding! Apart from the LSD the diffs are identical too, both R160's. Front suspension is also the same between the two.

I agree with you, a well developed RWD/FWD car will be faster, but they are not a bad thing if you are doing a dollar for dollar comparison.
As an average/clubman car they are far better that most give them credit for.

Edit - and yeah, with the handbrake on the front and a locked centre diff, you learn to forget about using it! (I only made that mistake once....)

[Gammaboy]

Dragging this back up - rwd rally/gravel/kahna cars - locked diff vs LSD - discuss?

[Daveee]

Clutch style LSD every day of the week... Unless cash is a problem.

EDIT: In fact I would say that most people would be better off with an open diff than a locked diff.

[Teamgemini]

LSD but seems to depend on car. Gemini with a locker is poo. 180rwhp datto not bad. That said the two other quick 1600s Ive been in seem a bit better with an LSD. For a cheap Khana car I'd def lock one before I spent the cash on an LSD.

[rowdytoot]

I've only driven open diff'd and LSD cars on gravel.. but I'd go with what Daveee says.. he's driven the full range in similar cars and is better than me!

low power, light car- open diff over locker for sure- you can be surprisingly quick and its easier to drive.. LSD over both.... lockers require 110% commitment to pre corner setup from what I've seen/experienced..

[HoonBoy]

A good LSD is the best option, locker or open then depends on the car and your driving stlye.

[GAZ914]

Dragging this back up - rwd rally/gravel/kahna cars - locked diff vs LSD - discuss?

When I ran the SoD with an open diff, it was crap at Hampton (not that it was great at any time!!!).
It was much more stable with the welded diff - although I think this was to do with the many changes of direction at Hampton.

LSD FTW, but I don't think the locked diff is useless - it depends on the car.

cheers
Gaz

[fro]

In a RWD for loose surface stuff, open diffs are ultra-poo.

[Ben.]

yeah, no doubt you sound like you have more experience in rallying than i do daveee, I am however more than up to date on locked diffs (coz I'm a fucking hack cunt) and have driven every kind of surface there is with a locker, locker wins over open hands down, every time IMHO (talking rwd here obviously)

what makes you not like them?

[smee]

Our $750 SX 4AGE special.
Picked up off boost loosing.

[Daveee]

yeah, no doubt you sound like you have more experience in rallying than i do daveee, I am however more than up to date on locked diffs (coz I'm a fucking hack cunt) and have driven every kind of surface there is with a locker, locker wins over open hands down, every time IMHO (talking rwd here obviously)

what makes you not like them?

I'm not claiming to be an expert and my opinion is just based on my own experiences.

I'd agree that a locker will be quicker than an open diff in most/all circumstances. Also open diffs are poo on soft surfaces.

That said. It takes a very particular car setup and driving technique to extract the most from a locker (which I struggled with!). After switching from a locker to an LSD I was having less spins, less nasty slow speed understeering moments and less oh fuck we are going to die wall o death moments. Not to mention the fact that driving with an open diff forces you to focus on keeping up corner speed. I guess all in all until you are pushing pretty hard on average people would be quicker with an open diff.

[Slides]

I would agree with technique/commitment comments regards cornering with open/lsd/locked

Having learned to skando my lada niva at full lock on fire trails (and throwing my na s3 rx7 around with various diffs, and a mates s3 with 13b turbo & locked diff), low power, body roll/weight transfer off the inside wheel & open diffs/awd/fwd demands better car feel & commitment for medium to high corner exit speed, once you learn to do it smoothly however you can get more out of something with a locked diff that has to be loose/unsettled on the way in to turn well.

[All For You]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Audi-90-Q...item2ebc7633a3

[Daveee]

In regards to cars you are only going to get an excel or Gemini or similar. Still massively cheap once you work out what all the safety gear costs. Here is a sold example. http://http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/rally-cars-sale/27695-fs-excel-rally-car.html

[Trixie]

Enough manual 240's around to not be a crazy idea. Can still be found around the 500 ish mark. Spac enjoys punting his about and hasn't cost him the earth to get and keep rallying.

+1
Have navigated in Spacs - good fun, sounds excellent, does awesome skids and people get upset being beaten by it. Having driven both Spacs 240 and a 1600 on dirt, the Volvo just feels like a big Datsun - predictable, controllable and easy to get sideways
Plenty of power to be made by a standard engine too, with the right head porting and injection set-up (as a start). Parts are plentiful.
It's all win!

Oh, have also navigated in this Volvo too..... One of the best sounding rally cars in ANY given field (it's about to be given the +t treatment too, so I can't wait to get back into it)..

[pp]

Locked diffs = good if you are committed enough over an open diff on the gravel. LSD for sure if you have the choice.

Locked diff will push the front of the car (understeer) if not committed and spin the car easily if over committed.

Bonus with a locked diff is if you break a half shaft you can still finish an event with one wheel drive and thrill the crowds with *massive* one wheel rooster tails .... but if you have an open diff you will probably not break said half shaft in the first place Nav'ed in said one wheel drive Gp G 1600 eons ago.

[Fraud]

V6 commo. Welded diff. It's foolproof.

this X 11billion

Mind you... if you don't really know what you want... just get anything. anything at all. Especially if you think you might actually want to end up developing something long term..

ie. get $750, and buy three cars (shitters)... a small capacity RWD, a large capacity RWD and a FWD of any kind... see which you like most, then find a good example to buy and start from scratch...

better than spending $4000 on buying/building an E30 only to one day hop in a stock CC lancer and decide its more fun..

But still, my suggestion would be a VN-VS commodore, and use all the ideas you can find from some combination of the 13's for 1300 cars, and Jim/Hoonboys wagon. You will NEVER have a shortage of spare parts, never spend more than 30 mins looking at it to work out whats wrong with it, never even be remotely tempted to wash it, and your liability is extremely limited, because you can completely bin it, and for $300 and a day of swapping parts, you'll be back to where you started from.

[pp]

oh, agree on Commodore V6 and start looking here for something cheap that someone else has spent a gazillion dollars on.

http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/rally-cars-sale/

[Sketchy]

Yeah but I'd still be driving a commodore which would be the same as having the ability to lick my own arse. Sure I could do it, but like fuck I want too.

[lysdexia]

On the locked vs open debate, my old r31 was great fun in the gravel with an open centre, and would go wherever i pointed it. Putting the locker in turned it into an understeering pig of a thing on the gravel, would just plow forwards no matter where the front wheels pointed. Was definitely faster and more fun with the open diff.

[Forg Dammit]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Volvo-245...item4cff657f01

too bad it's about $2500 over priced

[rowdytoot]

sadly sketchy the boys are right.. VR/VS commo is the answer.. otherwise I like R31 skylines for this type of action... - the 2 we took to hampton were awesome- I'd have another as a khana shitter tomorrow- but I have the AE82 instead...

Daveee- agree corner speed is king in an open diff'd car on gravel... which is why I think it works in a lower powered car- you scrub off speed with scandos and oversteer ala locked diff and then have no grunt to get it back... I figure If I can manage whatever outright placing we did at the bay in 08 (easily top 20) in the mud with an open diff and 70 hp... it can't be too bad a thing..

[morerevsm3]

E30 with a locked diff and stiffer bars, they do not suffer all the understeer stuff everyone is talking about, my E30 has locked diff, and have no problems on bitumen race tracks or my clay paddock when it is wet, biggest issue would be sump clearance

[Coffin]

R31's

[TT]

not enough down force?

[Coffin]

Rowds soon after gave it rear downforce

[farmsci]

E30 with a locked diff and stiffer bars, they do not suffer all the understeer stuff everyone is talking about, my E30 has locked diff, and have no problems on bitumen race tracks or my clay paddock when it is wet, biggest issue would be sump clearance

Have locker in E30 318IS, agree with it being great at higher speeds or slippery surfaces but having done a bitumen motorkhana with the locker it was very understeery until it lost traction. Was awesome when you kept the wheels spinning but hard work.