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Thread: Charade V6 budget hillclimber

  1. #31
    Trendsetter is awesome cheapracer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Death Monkey View Post
    Rwd has been done before lol.
    Similar but not the same, thats a big heavy 3VZ 3.0 V6, Kneelo is using a smaller and much lighter 1MZ 3.0 V6.

  2. #32
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Slowly getting stuff done... Body is welded together and primed. Probably used too much steel doing this but at least I'm confident its solid. The suspension is stupidly high with the camry struts at full extension but it looks like it will have to butcher the guards to get it to reasonable height even with new coilovers.

    Bought some cheap 17x7.5 wheels and pretend fitted them... looking pretty sweet I reckon. Is there any requirement for me to run flares to cover the wheels where they stick out or can I just cut the guard out to make them fit? The long term the plan is to replace some of the panels with fiberglass and include flares in this when when I start thinking about aero, but thats probably a way down the track.

    I have also been thinking about what do strip from the car.. what are thoughts on the need for heater/demister, wipers, indicators and head lights? Probably good to keep?

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  3. #33
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    I'd be going 13"s for a hillclimber - shortens the gearing up a bit...

  4. #34
    Tyre Smoking Nobody Crash Dummy's Avatar
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    I don't really have much useful to add other than to say I approve and or endorse this project and I think it would tough as fuck with some flared guards on it.

    Like this

    Or like this!


    The other type being the really basic flat type flares that serve not purpose other than to cover the wheels. I think they more or less are just a flat sheet of metal or fibreglass which follows the contour of the wheel arch and stick straight out. It can look tough or ugly as sin.
    - Gary

    97 Mitsubishi Lancer Coupe 1.8 (cheap and cheerful motoring)
    16 Honda Grom (MSX125) Snail racing would be faster

  5. #35
    "The bitches, are wet" Sketchy's Avatar
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    Subscribed. This appeals to my inner idiot.

    Well done so far, keep at it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dimi View Post
    80mm of penetration isn't bad, i wish i had that much.
    Quote Originally Posted by schnitzelburger View Post
    My entire working career pretty much consists of suckin dick and takin names.

    Sometimes im too busy to take names.

  6. #36
    DakDakDakDak Crais's Avatar
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    I have nothing to add except this concept is cool as fuck. Id say your wheels issue would sort itself out with smaller diameter wheels
    '67 Volkswagen Beetle 1300cc
    '09 VE SS


    Quote Originally Posted by Scrad
    You are like some sort of car rapist, Sticking things where they don't belong, and often don't fit nicely

  7. #37
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crais ? View Post
    I have nothing to add except this concept is cool as fuck. Id say your wheels issue would sort itself out with smaller diameter wheels
    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    I'd be going 13"s for a hillclimber - shortens the gearing up a bit...
    Both good reasons to go for smaller wheels... but then it wouldnt be very pimp. I would like to eventually run 17x9's and 255 rubber. I reckon charades with big rubber are fucking cool.

    Moding the arches isnt so much of a problem just something else on the list... must have gone though at least 50 cut off discs so whats a few more.

  8. #38
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    id go 15x8f and 10's on the rear (check rubber availablity) 13's arent that common for any type of tyre anymore.

    I had doubts when you started, but it looks like you are serious about this project, good luck!
    Tow car/camping bus: 2011 D40 Navara ST

    Baby mobile: 2016 Nissan Qashqai

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  9. #39
    are hairy Dogsballs's Avatar
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    looking awesome dude!
    Quote Originally Posted by 50RTD View Post
    Dave, have you uploaded the data from the carby?

  10. #40
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by da9jeff View Post
    id go 15x8f and 10's on the rear (check rubber availablity) 13's arent that common for any type of tyre anymore.

    I had doubts when you started, but it looks like you are serious about this project, good luck!
    Ive consulted the ebay and gumtree oracles and found some pretty good looking 15x8's with the right sort of offset and a 5x114.3 pattern but the selection is pretty thin... Heaps of negative offset dragways and centerlines if i wanted that old school look though! I think I would have to change the stud pattern to open up a reasonable number of options but even then there doesn't seem a huge selection compared to larger diameters.

    I'm leaning toward sticking with the 17's but now youve planted the seed of doubt.. I might just plod on with everything and leave this decision until everything else is sorted if I can.

  11. #41
    Smooth is fast Mad31's Avatar
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    Awesome project, cant wait to see it running

  12. #42
    Registered User SFort's Avatar
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    I was reading your brake thread and did a double take when I read V6 Charade! Awesome.

  13. #43
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    I hope to have it finished enough to run mid next year if I get enough shed time... haven't been able to do much recently so have to console myself by bunking off at work planning and buying parts.

    This is the brake thread if anyone has wisdom to impart.
    http://performanceforums.com/forums/...#post841609161

    Its based on the biggest I think I can fit with the current 17" wheels.

  14. #44
    Registered User 333pg333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Momus View Post
    Summit online are as convenient as anyone for rod ends.

    For a simple wishbone layout and geometry have a look at MX5's or C5 Corvette for ideas.
    I'm curious as to how feasible it is to just swap in twin A suspension from another car? I would think that it's not a simple as it sounds and you might be left chasing roll centres for some time?

  15. #45
    Registered User SFort's Avatar
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    If you kept standard geometry, say by mounting the whole assembly up, would the donor car's roll centres etc carry over? Or would it still have to be re-engineered?

  16. #46
    Registered User 333pg333's Avatar
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    Not sure. My instincts say it would need work. Defer to the experts on this one...

  17. #47
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Lathe is finally setup and I'm now having a ball making metal streamers. Its an ex tafe colchester triumph 7.5hp with a VSD so I can run it off single phase power. A real beast.
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    One of the first jobs has been the front hubs for the daihatsu. I have gone with holden HZ uprights and made hubs using flangless steel trailer hubs with the flanges from spare camry hubs. Last job on the hubs is to install them on the uprights and set them up between centres in the lathe to take a finishing cut to square everything up... I thought these might be a bit dodgy but its all come up pretty good in the end... anyway the plan is to replace these with aluminium hubs down the track assuming everything works ok.. Ball joint are 68 chev camaro, brake rotors are 330mm commode and calipers willwood w6a.

    Biggest problem I think I have is the scrub radius has ended up being 60mm which based on most of my googling is bad... general consensus seems to be increase the KPI to get it down to around 15mm. Although reading race car dynamics by milliken it says place the lower ball joint as far out as you can, keep the KPI less than 8 degrees and live with the resulting scrub radius... 60mm seems a bit much though. I'm playing around modelling suspension now but I'm thinking I'll probably modify the upright to move the upper ball joint inwards... If I increase the KPI to 16 degrees I can get scrub down to about 20mm.

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  18. #48
    Registered User Momus's Avatar
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    That disc is the biggest obstacle to getting a low scrub radius asuming the wheel is not on the upper control arm.. Mac strut discs from Commodores have huge offset which is undesirable for all sorts of reasons.
    Get a flatter disc from a Falcon say, and move it as close to the lower ball joint as you can; 3 to 5mm is ok. Remake hubs and adjust control arm lengths to get track. Keep Holden KPI.
    I have done a couple of Holden upright based cars that can run with zero scrub radius- or even positive, admittedly with bigger wheels than you have.
    Claimed horsepower sceptic.

  19. #49
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    I have been thinking more about this over the weekend and came to the same conclusion about the disc being the main issue. However the problem is the brake calipers i've bought are massively wide hence the reason for the tall discs in the first place.

    I had a look around and a 320mm rotor from an EVO is about 40mm shorter so I made one in mdf to test it out and as I expected the brakes are a problem on the 3 different sets of 17" wheels I had to test... I would need to run probably a 15mm spacer to get it to work. It do go part of the way to fixing the scrub problem but I'm thinking if I go this path I might be better off fabricating new uprights and spindles rather then perservering with the holden ones as im still going to have to increase KPI to get what I want. Also with the holden uprights the flange is going to end up right at the back of the hub which might not be strong enough as the hubs I have are not overly thick at the back, and it also means a lot of the front part of the hub is going to have to stick out thouch the centre bore of the wheel.

    Anyway now I'm doing what I probably should have at the start and am drawing up options in CAD before I do anything else. I'm trying to end up with KPI less than 12 degrees and scrub around 15mm.

  20. #50
    Registered User Supashake's Avatar
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    My God, I did not see this coming LOL, I thought you liked Charades but I think there maybe a need for a rehab for this illness.
    GURU ENGINEERING PTY LTD

  21. #51
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Yeah it is a bit of a sickness.... The count is now 5 including this one. Plenty of space for more though!

    Whiteys still going strong but is now multi coloured after wiping out a roo at 110.

  22. #52
    R31 Gavin031's Avatar
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    jesus that's cool, subscribed!

  23. #53
    Registered User irsa76's Avatar
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    I reckon you should have started with a G100, every one knows g200s are poo.
    Looking good so far.

  24. #54
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    Perhaps consider 330 mm c4 corvette gransport front rotors? They are about 30 mm more shallow than the vr commode front rotors I run onte back of my car. They run my wilwood sl4 front calipers very close to back of rim spokes as you have guessed.
    Unsure of my front scrub radius, but suffice to say it has a fair bit with no real issues so long as you hang onto wheel...

  25. #55
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by irsa76 View Post
    I reckon you should have started with a G100, every one knows g200s are poo.
    Looking good so far.
    Theres not going to be a whole lot of original charade bits left in the end so I dont think it will really matter.... and the g100's look pretty shit.

    Decided to go with the 320mm evo rotor and I'll just use spacers to get enough clearance. Will make new uprights to suit as the holden ones aren't going to work easily. Ended up with 12 degree KPI and scrub around 15mm, maybe even a bit less if I can make the spacer a bit thinner.

    Have been playing around with the suspension in susprog3d but not really sure if what ive come up with is any good... it seems reasonable but i'm a bit surprised how hard it is to find solid guidance on what sort of numbers to shoot for for stuff. I think I have a good handle on the camber change but maybe i've gone a bit too far on the swing axle length as the roll center moves 140mm between full bump and full droop which can't be good.

    Frt suspension 16_04_13.pdf

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  26. #56
    on hoes? yohoes's Avatar
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    This is awesome as fuck

    I really want to see this thing in action when it's done

  27. #57
    Registered User Supashake's Avatar
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    Make sure you set Brakes up as a rear engine car, Large fronts and small rears are no good for you now, same with spring rates.
    Will all be closer to 50/50 now.
    GURU ENGINEERING PTY LTD

  28. #58
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    Much win in this thread

    Rotary Mazda's??? Nah mate I don't know anything about them.

  29. #59
    Flogger of dead horses kneelo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Supashake View Post
    Make sure you set Brakes up as a rear engine car, Large fronts and small rears are no good for you now, same with spring rates.
    Will all be closer to 50/50 now.
    I've assumed a 40/60 F/R weight split and played around with few spread sheets to work out the brakes and suspension. Brake balance came out around 60-65% front assuming my guesses are right. Front brakes will be 320mm rotors with 6 piston wilwood calipers and the rears will be standard R33 front rotors and 4 piston calipers. Going to make an unboosted dual master cylinder arrangment so there will be scope to tweak it if need be.

    Haven't had a chance to do much for months but I might take some time off work to get the front suspension done soon. Its a bit depressing to see all the other cool projects here progessing while spiders move into mine.

  30. #60
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    You should you slackass! even the Datsun is running under its own power....!

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