Coilovers, where's the sweet spot in price/performance?

[Reedy]

Ok so semi slick tyres and good brakes have got my cars stock suspension really struggling to keep up at the track. The thing pitches and rolls like crazy when I start to push it now and it's frustrating knowing that the car is the limiting factor wheras up until now it was obviously my driving that needed to get better.
This has got me looking for a suspension solution that offers good track focused adjustability while still being as comfortable on the road as is realistically achievable. Ultimately I need something that will make proper use of R-Spec tyres in a supersprint type environment.

My car is a 2010 Mazda3 MPS, 200kW at the wheels, so has all the nuances that FWD cars with decent power tend to share. Longer term plans are to have a Quaife front diff fitted too, but for now the focus is suspension.

I've arrived at 2 options at different price points and am keen to hear some feedback on the gains that people have achieved with comparable setups.

Option 1: Basic adjustable shock absorber (Koni, Bilstien etc) upgrade + Lowered Springs + Camber, Bump Steer, Anti Lift kits
Limited adjustability, performance tapers off after a hot lap or 2, cheap and arguably just as fast as the more expensive options when set up properly.

Option 2: KW V3's + Above mentioned trinketry.
Height, Compression and Rebound adjustable, can withstand a solid 5 lap session before performance tapers off. Obviously the better option, but at twice the cost, is it twice as good?

I guess the first question is, will the more expensive KW setup be quantifiably faster than the cheaper alternatives? It's more tweakable and built to run more consistently for longer, but if it doesn't net any measurable performance gain over the cheap option what's the point?

Any Thoughts? Suspension is a voodoo art at the best of times and a lot of people have some strong opinions on the topic but very few of them have track data to back up their claims. That's ultimately what I want to hear about.

[dynoryder]

well to get off track data which i dont have and it is really something you and your driving style needs to compile

the choice you make might actually come down to serviceabilty ie: billstien mono's are rebuildable

just remember two drivers can setup two cars the way they like and get good times swap the drivers to the oppiste car and they can loose massive time

[Coffin]

whats the price on KW's?

I can get good pricea on Tein Stuff for you if you are interested?

Oh can also get Bilstein and springs etc.

[lonewolf]

ive got Kw v1's, didnt want to spend the extra cash for adjustable versions since i'm not really interested in adjustability, learning to drive the car with the setup rather than keep tinkering.

By all accounts the V3's are fantastic though.
Any reason why you say the springs + dampers would "go off" after a coupe of laps?

[Reedy]

just remember two drivers can setup two cars the way they like and get good times swap the drivers to the oppiste car and they can loose massive time

For a road car we can keep things fairly simple, and given the kind of car I have it is a fairly one dimensional car to drive so driver style is nullified slightly. Not to say it's not a fun and sharp little car, it's just no full blown racer.

whats the price on KW's?

The V3's fitted, aligned and with a custom strut tops and camber/bump steer kits is looking like itll be about $4000 all up.

Any reason why you say the springs + dampers would "go off" after a coupe of laps?

I've been told that unless they are built for motorsports applications, street shocks overheat fairly quickly when they are driven at the limit and that leads to inconsistent performance. They don't exactly fall off a cliff, just start losing their effective damping rates

[demuire]

I would have thought the "shocks overheating" problem would apply more to off road applications than on a race track where the shocks aren't being pumped quite as much?


Fook.

[Uncle Arthur]

In my experience suspension is the most important part of a race car because it's relevant to enjoyment, lap times and safety like no other system of the car is. So for mine I got the best system available and while the price hurt at the time in retrospect it was the best investment in the car I ever made.

[Reedy]

In my experience suspension is the most important part of a race car because it's relevant to enjoyment, lap times and safety like no other system of the car is. So for mine I got the best system available and while the price hurt at the time in retrospect it was the best investment in the car I ever made.

More and more people I speak to are saying exactly this. Nobody I've spoken to has regretted spending big on suspension. looks like I'll be pulling the trigger on the V3's.

[CT]

Have you considered Tein Mono Flex? I wouldn't believe too much about the shocks going off after a lap or two, that's BS to make you spend more money. I ran Tein Flex on my MX5 racer for 8 years and they were rebuilt once during that time as a precaution not because they needed it. They are very reliable and with the in cabin controller, gave me a distinct advantage at the track bring able to adjust them mid race. Perhaps look at good-win-racing.com and also Racing Beat as they may also have options for you to consider. (Not saying that KWs are no good by the way)

[Kiahatsiu]

I recently put KW's on each corner of my Liberty GT. I have spent tens of thousands on this car, and this is by far the best thing I have done. Currently just going through the motion of getting it set up.
Reedy, see what sort of price you can get Tien's from Racing Ready for. As long as you avoid the generic rebranded Taiwanese things like Kido/Ksport ect you will be fine.

[Shifty]

A lot to be said for the coilovers in Kiahatsiu's car.

Handling improved out of sight, and ride does not suck. Win/win.

[Matty]

Talk to this guy.
http://fatcatmotorsports.com/FCM_Bil...evalve_MS3.htm

[dynoryder]

also speaking of how good suspension is : )

you may consider measures to decrease the torque steer in the mps it is the mps you are racing ?

the lower arms in these things take alot of flex under acceleration which i have felt it can nearly drag you into another lane of traffic if the engine is upgraded so bush upgrsades are needed if not already done

also a tighter lsd may help im unsure about powertrain upgrades for mps's

[Reedy]

An Anti Lift Kit from whiteline for my model is coming out soon, don't listen to what you read about torque steer in the MPS, motoring journos bag it mercilessly but on the track it is completely absent, on uneven roads it can be a bit of a bitch but it teaches you to read the road surface and learn throttle control (Senna style). Bushing upgrades are all available and will be done with the rest of the work.

A Quaife diff upgrade is available and on my to do list, I plan to get that done when the stock clutch wears out and replace both at the same time. I almost did this first and if I was still using street tyres, I probably would have one already but since swapping to semi slicks the whole balance of the car has been thrown off as opposed to just having traction issues on corner exit, that's what has directed me back towards suspension work.

At this stage I will probably go and put a deposit down for a set of V3's, custom adjustable strut tops, front swaybar (have a rear already), bump steer kit and rear camber arms tomorrow. I just wanna sleep on it 1 more night before I commit.

[Cracka]

Www.performanceshock.com

See if ohlins or Penske to suit are on special. Also kw dealer with big buying power.

[myliberty]

double

[da9jeff]

Also look into Bilsteins with a coilover setup and custom springs/valving. Im researching this stuff for my Integra, pretty much with the billies you can start with the basic body and upgrade all the way to a double adjustable canister shock using the same body. Also they have the advantage of being able to be tuned/rebuilt by most shock places in aus, whereas with the wierd beard setups you may be sending shit around the world to get fixed.

[dynoryder]

.

[Reedy]

Deposit is down.

KW V3's to suit 2010 Mazda3 MPS
Custom made adjustable strut tops
Bump Steer Kit
Rear Camber Kit
Whiteline Front Swaybar (have a rear one already)

Supplied, fitted and alignment work being done by Tunehouse. I might get a corner weight done in the future but I want to get the setup dialed in before doing that.

[dynoryder]

pics or link of the rear bump steer kit plz

I dont really see how you can get rid of bump steer in the rear maby correct it after lowering rear bump steer is really a cradle/knuckle design thing

[turbo510]

You are an idiot

[dynoryder]

You are an idiot

what ever dude

[Reedy]

I am told the bump steer kit is more or less needed to get the alignment correct with a lowered car. http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KCA405

That link is funny, it says its a front bump steer kit but the description is all talking about it being for the rear heh.

[dynoryder]

from what i read it is for the front and it spaces the rack up with washers

ill look into it at work tomorrow i might ring redranger on monday if you want trade info on what is going into your car

[BeverlyHillsCop]

I am told the bump steer kit is more or less needed to get the alignment correct with a lowered car. http://www.whiteline.com.au/product_..._number=KCA405

That link is funny, it says its a front bump steer kit but the description is all talking about it being for the rear heh.

That link you posted is def for the front.

[Reedy]

Whiteline don't proof read their website very well, I remember having to interpret similar typos back when I was searching for a swaybar that suits my car.

Always keen to chat Rdyno, flick us a PM anytime.

[Reedy]

Well I've had the V3's fitted for a couple of months now and they have really started to grow on me, particularly after my last track day on Thursday.

I went to Wakefield Park the day after having them fitted and unfortunately the fitment had been a bit rushed and the alignment was terrible, strange noises here and there and a couple of loose nuts. Not the best but I still went slightly faster than my previous PB but I could tell the bad alignment and loose shit was a big factor. I took it back to the shop, the alignment was fixed and everything re-torqued and it immediately felt excellent, the way it should have from the start.

Fast forward another month and I went to a private track day this week with unlimited running and had a really good chance to tinker with the damper settings to tune the cars handling and I gotta say - Holyfuckenshit what a difference it made. Once I found a setting I liked I knocked A FULL SECOND off my previous PB on my worn out old set of AD08's that have been scalloped to shit and spent the last week driving through snow. Way WAY faster than I expected to go. I wish I brought my semi slicks with me to that day cause I've got a feeling with those on I will find at least a second of time. One thing to note tho: The track was exceptionally fast. The best conditions I have ever seen at Wakefield Park (My drive down to Goulburn is usually interpreted as some kind of tribal rain dance by the weather gods).

Away from the track, backing the dampers off by 5-6 clicks and I can say now that the ride is CONSIDERABLY better than the stock suspension was. One of my big reservations about getting coils was the sacrifice in ride comfort and that's what led me to the KW's. I didn't like the stock ride quality in my car on the street, and it was compromised at the track so it didn't really do either very well. Typical kind of sacrifices that you have to make when you buy a hot hatch I guess.

Long story short: The initial install was a little bit shitty but once that was fixed up, these coils are every bit as good as I was led to believe, the track performance I was expecting to an extent, but the comfort on the street is what's really surprised me.

[rorz]

well to get off track data which i dont have and it is really something you and your driving style needs to compile

the choice you make might actually come down to serviceabilty ie: billstien mono's are rebuildable

LOL, you can rebuild coilovers as well.