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Thread: Lakeside bites again

  1. #91
    Chopped BigMuz's Avatar
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    I think that if you can afford it then do it. People have raced for a hundred years without them and it's hardly suicidal to race without one.
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  2. #92
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    It's a two-edged sword. Part of me wants to say that it's up to the user to decide, but as our club organises track days, we have a duty of care to consider making the mandatory in certain circumstances.
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  3. #93
    Registered User 333pg333's Avatar
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    Bigmuz,

    That's what they would have said about any form of belts back a few decades ago. Would you race (if allowed) without them now? It's not something evil. The HANS and similar devices are just another example of technology moving forwards. No need to fear them, it's for our own good. If you have a shunt that is bad enough to injure your spinal cord and you wind up in a chair, you do know that you can't rewind and go again?
    Last edited by 333pg333; 28-04-13 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #94
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    We have had some big offs in club track days. The level of motorsport you're competing in is not what decides whether you need a HANS device or not. A car hitting the wall on a club track day is the same as a car hitting the wall in the V8 supercars.

    I think at a minimum, anyone using a fixed seat and harness, it should be manditory.<----------Fullstop
    Last edited by DCR; 28-04-13 at 08:25 AM.

  5. #95
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    We have had some big offs in club track days. The level of motorsport you're competing in is not what decides whether you need a HANS device or not. A car hitting the wall on a club track day is the same as a car hitting the wall in the V8 supercars.

    I think at a minimum, anyone using a fixed seat and harness, it should be mandatory.<----------Fullstop
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  6. #96
    sartorial elegance ahabthearab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    We have had some big offs in club track days. The level of motorsport you're competing in is not what decides whether you need a HANS device or not. A car hitting the wall on a club track day is the same as a car hitting the wall in the V8 supercars.

    I think at a minimum, anyone using a fixed seat and harness, it should be manditory.<----------Fullstop

    Cams have a big job in trying to keep low budget competitors in the sport and maintaining safety standards, If they make Hans compulsory they would need to make FIA spec Helmets, Rollcages, 6 point harnesses, and fixed seats compulsory.
    It would drive a huge amount of competitors away from the sport and put an end to the art of running your daily at the track.

    I can see a day in the not too distance future where all national and state level competition will mandate Hans. This alone will cut numbers in Hillclimbs and supersprints alone.

    That said. We, as competitors sometimes don't appreciate the speeds we achieve and the consequences of having an off. I've turned a blind eye to it for far too long.

    So I have one on it's way.
    My choice.
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  7. #97
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    No they just have to mandate hans if harness & fixed seat. Thats the base level.

  8. #98
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ahabthearab View Post
    Cams have a big job in trying to keep low budget competitors in the sport and maintaining safety standards, If they make Hans compulsory they would need to make FIA spec Helmets, Rollcages, 6 point harnesses, and fixed seats compulsory.
    It would drive a huge amount of competitors away from the sport and put an end to the art of running your daily at the track.

    I can see a day in the not too distance future where all national and state level competition will mandate Hans. This alone will cut numbers in Hillclimbs and supersprints alone.

    That said. We, as competitors sometimes don't appreciate the speeds we achieve and the consequences of having an off. I've turned a blind eye to it for far too long.

    So I have one on it's way.
    My choice.
    As it should be, motorsport is a risky hobby. I think everyone who partakes is aware of the dangers. While obvious safety measures like helmets and such should be mandatory, I believe that allot of the onus should be left up to the participants to ensure their own safety.
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    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  9. #99
    Registered User Race Spec's Avatar
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    Agree with the last few comments.

    With some of the events I regularly compete in, a la local Time Attack and hill climbs, more than 50% of the cars entered are road registered daily/weekend driven cars. Many grass roots events wouldn't take place if it weren't for the majority that make up the numbers. You simply cannot expect nor mandate competitors to fit fixed seats/cage/harness on their roadie. As mentioned numbers will dwindle. Door to door racing I think is another story altogether.

    I have been criticized for not fitting a roll cage- doing 1:13's around Mallala without roll over protection is just suicidal. I took my chances around Mallala but there is no way in the world that I would do the same around Lakeside.

    There is so much risk associated in Motorsport every time we go out and continue to push the envelope, and the potential consequences can be detrimental as well as irreversible. Motorsport can give so much but equally can take so much too. Like many, I always take my safety for granted... that is until someone that you know is directly affected and you begin to think twice.

    I agree that a HANS device (as well as other safety measures) is a great idea and 'should' be employed, but at your own discretion. You can only lead a horse to water etc. Sometimes it really just boils down to commonsense.
    Last edited by Race Spec; 28-04-13 at 11:06 AM.

  10. #100
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    What DCR and I are pushing is that IF you have a fixed seat and full harness, then a HANS should be mandatory.
    That does not scare away the rego'd cars etched.
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  11. #101
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post
    What DCR and I are pushing is that IF you have a fixed seat and full harness, then a HANS should be mandatory.
    That does not scare away the rego'd cars etched.
    Why should it be though?

    I don't disagree that its a very smart idea to use one, but why should we be forcing it upon people?
    Quote Originally Posted by oioioioioi View Post
    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  12. #102
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    Why where a helmet then?

  13. #103
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    From my point of view, as an official in a club that organises track days, it is my Duty of Care to the participants. We mandate that all must wear a helmet, neck to wrist to ankle non-flammable clothing, and closed shoes. This is a further step, for those with fixed-seats and harnesses. We know it's safer for them to wear a HANS, and therefore, if we don't mandate it, we are failing in that Duty of Care.
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  14. #104
    Oo=V=oO GTV's Avatar
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    and the response would be: Ok, I'll just run the lap sash belt with my fixed seat then or put the standard seat back in
    which, is arguably a less safe result...

  15. #105
    Registered User ENGINR's Avatar
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    After some of my mates who race in the Historic and Improved Production rounds showed me this video they then looked me firmly in the eye and told me to go out and get a HANs device. They all use them now and I'm getting mine this week.

  16. #106
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GTV View Post
    is arguably a less safe result...
    The risk of a serios neck injury is less actually.

  17. #107
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DCR View Post
    The risk of a serios neck injury is less actually.
    Assuming due to the extra movement in the seat?

    How much does a HANS cost out of interest?
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    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  18. #108
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    You can get them as low as $479 now
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  19. #109
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post
    You can get them as low as $479 now
    Okay so for a racer serious enough to have a solid mounted seat and full cage, its in the realm of stupidity to not have one. I was thinking they must be a couple grands worth. But to spend $5000+ on a dedicated car and then get squeamish about $500... well HTFU.
    Quote Originally Posted by oioioioioi View Post
    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  20. #110
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    In the Schroth Brand, $479 gets you the Sport model wich is aorund 1.050kg. $550 gets youy the sport II model which is aorund 850grams. $999 get you the CF one which is around 750grams. Stand21 also do one with simular weights and prices.

    RI are doing a Helmet for $299 if you havent got one with HANS posts or you have one that can't be drilled and retro ftted with them.

  21. #111
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    I think someone had a big off at PI maybe half an hour ago...

  22. #112
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    I think someone had a big off at PI maybe half an hour ago...
    Hope they've survived with nothing more than ruined undies.
    Quote Originally Posted by oioioioioi View Post
    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  23. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post
    What DCR and I are pushing is that IF you have a fixed seat and full harness, then a HANS should be mandatory.
    That does not scare away the rego'd cars etched.
    I don't necessarily agree with this statement. Fixed seat, harness, hans and no cage is a recipe for disaster if you roll over.

    I think a time based set of rules for sprints per track and a corresponding level of safety has merit. In the last 5 years times have dropped spastically at non-event sprint days. To the point where street cars on street tyres would have qualified mid field at an ATCC/Supertaxi meet 10-15 years ago. And not necessarily have a cage.
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  24. #114
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soopy View Post
    Hope they've survived with nothing more than ruined undies.
    Ambulances at the airfield suggest an airlift

  25. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post

    I think a time based set of rules for sprints per track and a corresponding level of safety has merit. In the last 5 years times have dropped spastically at non-event sprint days. To the point where street cars on street tyres would have qualified mid field at an ATCC/Supertaxi meet 10-15 years ago. And not necessarily have a cage.
    Agreed 100% and it's consistent with standard risk management principles to boot.

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  26. #116
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    Ambulances at the airfield suggest an airlift
    Fark thats no good. Any details on who and what?
    Quote Originally Posted by oioioioioi View Post
    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  27. #117
    Registered User old_geez's Avatar
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    Lakeside bites again

    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with this statement. Fixed seat, harness, hans and no cage is a recipe for disaster if you roll over.

    I think a time based set of rules for sprints per track and a corresponding level of safety has merit. In the last 5 years times have dropped spastically at non-event sprint days. To the point where street cars on street tyres would have qualified mid field at an ATCC/Supertaxi meet 10-15 years ago. And not necessarily have a cage.
    Thing with time based rules is that if someone has a fixed-seat, harnessed car that is slower than the set time mark, they then could say they don't need one, but they would. Anything over a 80kph hit could break your neck if you are harnessed in a fixed seat.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sicarius123 View Post
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  28. #118
    Chrome bumper cunts! Soopy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by old_geez View Post
    Thing with time based rules is that if someone has a fixed-seat, harnessed car that is slower than the set time mark, they then could say they don't need one, but they would. Anything over a 80kph hit could break your neck if you are harnessed in a fixed seat.
    I guess the time based ruling comes down to a statistical risk factor??
    Quote Originally Posted by oioioioioi View Post
    I've never said or implied everyone on that page was a deadshit - just that there's a concentration of deadshits there. Think of it like a mine, but instead of a rich vein of gold bearing quartz, it's a rich vein of spastic bearing facebook posts.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sketchy View Post
    Any peanut who thinks they could have done it better from the comfort of their armchair or work desk is a genuine mong level potato.

  29. #119
    Even oysters have enemies HAMMER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido View Post
    I don't necessarily agree with this statement. Fixed seat, harness, hans and no cage is a recipe for disaster if you roll over.

    I think a time based set of rules for sprints per track and a corresponding level of safety has merit. In the last 5 years times have dropped spastically at non-event sprint days. To the point where street cars on street tyres would have qualified mid field at an ATCC/Supertaxi meet 10-15 years ago. And not necessarily have a cage.
    I agree with most of what your saying but I think it would be eaier to introduce by getting the guys that are obviously serious (cage,harness,roll cage) to have ot wear one first.

    If you look at that video of me at Lakeside, I go through the kink at over 200kph and my mate in his R35 GTR listening to Fleetwood Mac and AC running is doing the same speed in front of . I think from memory it is around a 60 second lap. He has nothing more than a lap/sash and helmet on.

  30. #120
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soopy View Post
    Fark thats no good. Any details on who and what?
    nope, just noticed there was a trackday on when i went past one way, and then no cars running and then ambos at the airfield on the way back.

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