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Thread: Haltech elite..

  1. #391
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    You donít need a can hub.. just join all the hi and lo together. Make sure the 2 end devices has a resister and your done..

    The old hubs looped the hi and low and was a shit idea, hence the need for the loop wire to terminate

    The new can hub is just a bus bar, you only need 2 pins on a can network having the other 2 allows power switching of low current devices. Works perfect over 8-10m and I have had 9 devices connected to 3 hubs during testing with zero issues
    im a cunt
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  2. #392
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Oh and the vehicle can bus uses can 2 so totally separate.
    im a cunt
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  3. #393
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    It's a bus, theoretically you should loop in and out of every device and terminate at the last.

    Interesting that they chose to ignore best practice of the physical layer in a new product.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  4. #394
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    They are just doing it the same as everyone else...
    im a cunt
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  5. #395
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    It's a bus, theoretically you should loop in and out of every device and terminate at the last.

    Interesting that they chose to ignore best practice of the physical layer in a new product.
    Did the 8 pin Tyco ones loop back and forth? The black connector I have here doesnít seem to adhere to the looping protocol either.

    Or is the looping a white plug thing?

  6. #396
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    Iíve used this CAN install method over 100s of meters with no issues. Not the best install but only had to work for a couple of weeks.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  7. #397
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post


    They are just doing it the same as everyone else...
    Branches no longer than 450 mm though.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  8. #398
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    Branches no longer than 450 mm though.
    Dragster I tuned in Malta has a 6m can cable to its c1212 dash.. funny enough it works perfectly..
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  9. #399
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    Also makes no difference as you just run the main twisted pair to the device and the tap into it.. not really that hard to do.
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  10. #400
    Registered User dnegative's Avatar
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    450mm who the fuck came up with that?
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

  11. #401
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    It's to do with the data rate/bus frequency. Any bus network, and there are many, all require single continuous runs to ensure correct operation. They also all need a termination resistor.

    Sure they work in star configuration and without resistors sometimes, but there will be data errors and degraded performance.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    It's to do with the data rate/bus frequency. Any bus network, and there are many, all require single continuous runs to ensure correct operation. They also all need a termination resistor.

    Sure they work in star configuration and without resistors sometimes, but there will be data errors and degraded performance.
    Pfft star a the way ainít nobody got time for daisy chaining. Probably avoid terminating every leg of the star though, resistance will go through the roof.

  13. #403
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    How many red wires are recommended for a high data rate bus?

  14. #404
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by myliberty View Post
    How many red wires are recommended for a high data rate bus?
    All of them.
    Chris
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  15. #405
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    Haltech elite..

    All of them.

    /edit

    Quote Originally Posted by takai View Post
    All of them.
    Gah you beat me to it.
    Last edited by The Pupat; 11-05-19 at 09:23 AM.

  16. #406
    Registered User the big fist's Avatar
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    I use these.
    https://www.cobogroup.net/en/product...-01detail.html
    Have 4 of them setup across the vehicle controlling 17 devices. Works well.

    Built in resistor so you can just bridge 2 pins.
    Can have any length branches.
    A lot cheaper than anything else on the market, but we are an OEM.
    If you want a spec sheet let me know.

  17. #407
    I'm not a real engineer taijohnsen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by takai View Post
    Did the 8 pin Tyco ones loop back and forth? The black connector I have here doesnít seem to adhere to the looping protocol either.

    Or is the looping a white plug thing?
    The white 8 pin cables do indeed loop through the device and back to the hub. Hence why they are 6 wires.

    The black cables are exactly the same, but have an extra wire looped to another pin that engages a termination resistor inside the CAN device.

  18. #408
    Į\_(ツ)_/Į burn is weird's Avatar
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    this is a good interpretation of ISO 11898:1993.

    http://www.ti.com/lit/an/slla270/slla270.pdf

    as with all comms physical layer, you can often get away with an implementation way outside the spec but you should expect to have intermittent problems.

    and if you have intermittent comms problems, halve the bus rate and they'll go away.

    but 500mhz (1mbit) is extremely slow for what is usually a <5m bus length in an automotive application as far as reflection and propagation delay effects are concerned.
    on a very short bus operating at 1mbit a critical length limit is around 40 meters where reflection noise starts to interfere with the signal logic interpretation. to minimise these reflections, bus wire should have characteristic impedance of 120ohm, and should have 120ohm resistors at each end of the longest continuous segment. other than that you can't really fuck it up.

    this is what a long bus without adequate termination looks like. the faster the bus (or the longer the bus run) the larger the % of signalling time this noise takes up.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    often a long bus makes a good antenna and can pick up high frequency noise (such as AM radio) in certain environments, you can use filtering split terminators (two 60ohm resistors with a cap between them to ground) to reject signal noise above 110% of the bus frequency (ie >550khz). not a problem in a small bus run, inside a metal box (ie a car)
    Last edited by burn is weird; 15-05-19 at 10:48 AM.

    Oo___oO


  19. #409
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    Interesting that the quoted TI paper mentions critical length and stub length. That may be interpreted as suitable to have all sub car length stubs and main trunks unterminated.

    The theory is pretty basic physics, so it's interesting to see the physical layer spec being partially implemented, that's all my thoughts were. It may well work just fine in practice.
    Jason Broadhurst

    Someone once asked me if they could use my mower. I said "sure, so long as it doesn't leave my yard"

  20. #410
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Talking to the Haltech guys at Motorex, they havent had any issues. Although im guessing the main trunks are much shorter than on an OEM.
    Chris
    ------
    The new nugget
    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

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