Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 121 to 144 of 144

Thread: long term econ tests: aftermarket coils and other stuff

  1. #121
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by 246GT4 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    Engines are dynamic, extractors are fixed. They are designed to increase airflow for peak torque of an engine. They could actually decrease fuel econ at low RPM.
    How can something that is "fixed" offer an increase on something that is "dynamic"? If, they are designed to increase air flow??? I think you mean exhaust flow? then how would that effect anything? If the exhaust is able to effect the induction (overlap) by way of scavenging, you will (hopefully) see an increase in air consumption through the engine.

    You will need to mix more fuel with this to get any benefits, if you don't a lean mixture will lose you power and drivability. Also, too much exhaust flow loses torque, i.e more foot on throttle. (more fuel)

    A closed loop system is going to constantly compensate for this (more fuel)

    Without modifying cam opening/closing/duration times, your going to get naff all from changing an exhaust. The valves are the final say in engine operation.
    Jason
    Regarding your underlined, you meant 'increase econ' not 'decrease'...right?
    In my mindtank, 'Increase' means better econ...'Decrease' means worse.

    246GT4
    Regarding your underlined. I think everyone is capable and entitled of forming, having and expressing their own opinion,
    and i have no need or desire to influence anyone to change their views.
    And in the grand scope of life, the universe...and everything, i think it reasonable, that being of equal standing, i get to express mine too.

    If you think installing only HP exhaust parts produces "naff all", then that literally has no influence on the extra 50Ks a tank i get after installing them.
    They were the first and only thing i done to me ute when i first bought it...headers, hi-flow cat, on 2 1\2in pipes, which resulted in a permanent increase in econ.

    Perhaps the glitch in calculations is that usually when HP exhausts are installed, people do so 'cus they wanna hoon more, thus econ logically will decrease.
    But if HP exhausts are installed and you maintain your sedate driving style, econ increases.
    That's not theory, that's experiencial fact after i installed my HP system and compared several tank's worth of running on pre and after installation.
    Last edited by Jay17; 26-02-17 at 01:35 PM.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  2. #122
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    126
    Most certainly, everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But, no one is entitled to their own facts.

    I actually took the time to read your figures on more than one occasion, to clarify my own understanding of your claims.

    To quote MexicanBatman;
    Your method leaves a margin for error great enough to invalidate any data even for comparison sake
    I feel the same way.

    But your response was;
    I'd say this thread is not for you then.
    You have been quite condescending to members posting in your thread i.e;


    Yet you ask for help in regards to the torque app even though another member told you the FORscan app would be better suited to your requirements?!

    So, to make it easy, can you tell all interested, what changes you have made to said vehicle that has actually reduced injector open times and increased injector closed times?

    Injector open times (the time at which they allow fuel to pass) is measured in milliseconds. If you can show your recorded data as to reducing the injector open time across the entire rev range (or even part of it) I will be happy to stand corrected.

    There are a lot of smarter people out there than myself who have formulated numerous ways to record and log this information.

    The biggest stumbling block you have is your cars ecu, its not swayed by opinion, heavy forum discussion, prayers, bolt ons, or bullying. It will continue to find ways around your "modifications" in order to follow its orders. "MINIMISE POLLUTANTS". Thats its job.

    You will never gain more economy than its program says you will.

    I'am not trying to give you a hard time, you can do with your car as you like, but I don't deal in opinion, and your not the first to chase the economic utopian dream.

  3. #123
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    look behind you
    Posts
    3,166
    To be fair the manufacturer economy tests for the windscreen sticker are far from anything real world driving could replicate, so in reality you can keep plugging away at it if you wish.

    If I were you I would be investing in a SCT or HPT tuning gear, a good wideband o2 reader and learning the ins and outs of tuning. This will net you far more results, I fear you will be hitting a brick wall, actually reading that you believe you economy has gone to shit is a good indication.

    I logged my triton for over 12mth and got good data, took notes for when was towing, going long distance, bad traffic etc. I could not it down to seeing the weeks where was hot and I had the aircon running reflecting on the fuel usage. But to see that I needed a wide spread of data plus notes on what conditions were.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  4. #124
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Reducing irrelivant posts.
    Last edited by Jay17; 08-12-18 at 06:42 AM.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  5. #125
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    126
    Wow.
    Meanwhile down here in tassie, i literally am entitled to my own facts
    Just because one of your vacuous heads agrees with the other, does not make it a fact. It is only your opinion.

    What you claim is fantasy... do you really think that if...your illustrious backyard slap ons could gain what you claim, those dipshits at the factory, that actually created the engine, would not have worked out that they could gain what you have?

    That sort of claim sells cars. You could put your name on them... what about, "The Barra 4.0 HyPeR MiLeR" by JayfrumTaz. Got quite the ring to it.

    Jay cracked the code.

    You have not done any ECU tweaking?? , you have not recorded any data by way of fuel delivery??, therefore, you have nothing but an opinion and what the factory muppets gave you.

    The fact you cant see your spending good money chasing utopia is bizarre. But I guess you have developed an obsession.

    The burden of proof is on the claimant. Please table your proof.

    Just because one does not blow fragrant smoke up your arse, does not make them a narcissist. They may just be a realist.

    If you have data, I'm happy to look at it, if were going with opinion, lets just go with mine, we will both be all the better for it.

    And further to your data acquisition goes ( i use the term loosely)
    read this:
    http://blog.caranddriver.com/why-you...how-to-fix-it/

  6. #126
    Opens
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Brisbane, QLD
    Posts
    9,392
    i like this guy.

  7. #127
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,147
    Most of that article's error noted will be due to the artificial errors introduced to make the speedo/trip computer and thus distance traveled read high giving optimistic figures.

    And yes he can remove/hide the correction on his 2007 BMW albeit only on the digital speedo which also has to be enabled. The analogue guage always reads high.

    Whilst I agree OP is chasing things, trip computers are ok for relative changes in consumption but I wouldn't trust them for absolute readings. Biggest problem he has is his environment is not very well controlled and there are too many other variables.
    Last edited by Shonky; 01-03-17 at 07:26 AM.

  8. #128
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    look behind you
    Posts
    3,166
    I think OP has a bit of scope in chasing some better numbers, only as I've already alluded to the manufacturers testing is worlds away from real world so it's certainly attainable.

    I'll post up my 12mth of data just from logging fuel use from odometer and pump. It's interesting compared to others on triton forum that very few are actually able to come to similar numbers. Again I've done nothing but regular servicing and a 3" exhaust from turbo, which proven gave me 40-60klms more a tank.
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  9. #129
    Look behind you... Milkman Don's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    look behind you
    Posts
    3,166

    long term econ tests: aftermarket coils and other stuff

    Quote Originally Posted by Shonky View Post

    Whilst I agree OP is chasing things, trip computers are ok for relative changes in consumption but I would trust them for absolute readings. Biggest problem he has is his environment is not very well controlled and there are too many other variables.
    Very true, my 12mth of logging was predominantly the same drive daily for work and low use on weekends. When doing so with a good range of numbers I can pinpoint the weeks where I deviated from that, more driving on weekends, camping trips etc. so the variables are there infront of me.

    Old mate can do the same no doubt just needs be more particular with how he gets his figures and understands that his rolling average is what he needs to base his findings off not week by week as that tells you sfa
    Quote Originally Posted by Faux Forg View Post
    I agree with Rdyno

  10. #130
    loves the Cressy
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Gympie Australia
    Posts
    2,451
    Just to throw it out there, the guys who have put a performance exhaust on - how much of the economy gain was actually just due to the fact that it was a new exhaust, and not a blocked up old exhaust?

    ie. would the same gains have been made just by putting a brand new oem style exhaust on?

    No skin in the game, but if we are being scientific about it there would be an argument for testing both for comparison.
    Cheers, Richard

    MX83 Cressida Grande - 1JZ-GTE Twin Turbo JZX81 Motor, Fr Suspension in, tailshaft made & installed, bigger fuel pump in, zorst, wiring, fmic done (thanks jzk25) BA rotors R33 Calipers Now REGISTERED going well
    '92 & '94 TF Holden Rodeo 2.8 TurboDiesel 4WDs - Daily Driver regular breaker/backup ute
    MS85 Crown Super Sedan - Farm Car - Running 3rd 4M - Future project
    '66 Jaguar E-Type 4.2 Manual Coupe
    '66 Jaguar S-Type 3.8 Auto Sedan
    - Long Term Jobs

  11. #131
    agricultural aerobrick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2016
    Location
    Tas
    Posts
    657
    down here in tassie, i literally am entitled to my own facts

  12. #132
    . crack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    BNE
    Posts
    2,454
    Shirley an OEM exhaust compromises fuel efficiency to meet other demands (e.g. cost, NVH). Old mate should be able to spec an exhaust that is more fuel efficient at cruise, not because OEM engineers are dumb but because old mate doesn't need to compromise for cost, NVH, etc. Isn't that obvious?

    Also, old mate doesn't need to 'out engineer' the OEM, nor know about the intricacies of the combustion process. If his combo gets better fuel economy in a controlled real-world test, then that is all there is to it.

  13. #133
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by jzx83 View Post
    Just to throw it out there, the guys who have put a performance exhaust on - how much of the economy gain was actually just due to the fact that it was a new exhaust, and not a blocked up old exhaust?

    ie. would the same gains have been made just by putting a brand new oem style exhaust on?

    No skin in the game, but if we are being scientific about it there would be an argument for testing both for comparison.
    i put a new exhaust on and gained a heap of extra kms per tank (particularly around the street) after a good retune to suit (engine was tuned prior already)., my cats were not in tip top condition but the dyno only showed a kw or two difference in peak power at 6500rpm so there can be no doubt they weren’t offering any sort of restriction at light throttle low rpm.

    So why is it better?

    doubling the collector length helps massively with reversion at low rpm 1500-2500rpm so now im able to sneak into 4th or 5th gear at 50-70km/h speed areas vs 3rd or 4th Because the engine is happy to operate down there now with the cam I have (previously the cam would work well with old exhaust)….. This puts me at lower engine speed, higher % throttle position to achieve the 15 odd kw I need to putt putt around the streets which is a more efficient operating position from a BSFC perspective.

    On the highway the car is geared short so not anywhere near as much improvement as the rpm (3000rpm) is a lot higher and there was less reversion at 3000rpm before than there was at sub 2000rpm.
    Last edited by E30is; 02-03-17 at 08:01 AM.
    E30 325is M20 3.1L

  14. #134
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by jzx83 View Post
    Just to throw it out there, the guys who have put a performance exhaust on - how much of the economy gain was actually just due to the fact that it was a new exhaust, and not a blocked up old exhaust?

    ie. would the same gains have been made just by putting a brand new oem style exhaust on?

    No skin in the game, but if we are being scientific about it there would be an argument for testing both for comparison.
    That's something i can do with the BF wagon i just bought for my GG.
    It's stockers, 240K on the clock, but car is in near pristine condition.

    As for poor ol' 246GT4 (insert meme face here), i perceive he has zero understanding of the intent of this thread...or he's trolling,
    plus he seems to do a lot of projecting, always a sign of impending doom for a convo,
    therefore his posts, while humerous to read, remain not worth my time, and replying to them would simply perpetuate more pointless posts.
    And yes, while sometimes it is most enjoyable to respond to witty, trollish, ignorant or arrogant-prejudiced laced posts,
    i simply don't wanna encourage that behavior and clutter up the thread.


    Now that i have a BF to compare against, this will aid in my research and experiments.

    My ute ran 11.3 L\100K when 1st acquired in Dec2014, currently 220K on clock, very good motor.
    It got worse last year, turned out to be full inlet manifold clean brought it back to 11.3.
    Wow, look, i did something and i improved my econ, regardless of anyone's beliefs or what they hold as fact. ~memeface~

    Mum's BF wagon, after new air filter and resetting ecu after installing HP battery from her Magna,
    for sale by the way, cheap as free as we just want it gone. Only serious prob is top end oil seals finally flew.
    Other than that, though not pretty cosmetically, it's mechanically sound for a 300K wagon.
    Will Gumtree it this week.

    The BF quickly dropped down from 14.2(previous owner doing lots of idling due to business) to a stable 10.7, balanced mixture of city and hiway driving.
    Diff ratio differences will be checked next week, but i think it extremely doable to get me ute to that level.
    Anyone that wants to bitch, denigrate, mock, facepalm or hate me for working toward this goal, please, go right ahead,
    it's a relatively free society, and imma strong advocate of freedom of thought and speech...just don't expect any decent convo with me about your issues.


    Plans for the BF over next two weeks
    - local mechanics flush and install new brake fluid and check pads and things under body that turn, replace where necessary.
    - new irridiums when the new Gossies arrive...thanks to KodyParts for those.
    - replace diff oil and auto box service, adjusting any fiddly bits inside, @ Tas Drivelines, Lonnie.
    - tyres are standard and were already running 38psi, so all i've done is go to 40.
    - resetting rear suspension and adding extra leaf @ Leighton Springworks, Youngtown. (constantly will be carrying a load so this keeps body level)

    That's all i need to do to mum's car to get it up to spec for her wagon needs.

    Can't do precise long term econ tests on GG's BF as she drives differently to me, and cargo weight will never be consistent.
    I just want to see how much better i can get the econ, then will use that as a rough guide for me ute to try to achieve.
    Though a few months down the road, after she's developed a consistent driving style, as hilighted by you, jzx83,
    i will get the exhaust checked and at least wack in a new cat, and see if anything changes.


    Ute is finally booked in for full chassis inspection early May, so no more econ experiments on ute till after the assessment.
    Ute's currently running 11.5 due to air con uses these last few days, and a decent amount of spirited driving the week we drove all over
    nth tassie looking for GG's replacement.
    Last edited by Jay17; 04-03-17 at 01:29 AM.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  15. #135
    Now with more ebay parts. 2JZR31's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    11,230
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    Thoughts
    I totally agree with your review of 246GT4 opinions. Just because a certain mod allows the engine to produce more power does not mean it will use more fuel unless you using that power. Would increasing boost from 10psi to 15psi use more fuel when cruising under vacuum? Like you said, air filter mods which may increase power just mean the restriction is transferred to the throttle plate to maintain the same acceleration. Exhaust mods may reduce pumping losses slightly and may save fuel yet produce more power when your floor it...

    Also suspension mods can save fuel as you don't need to slow down as much in corners which means less acceleration once you come out of the corner. The faster you go around corners the less fuel you use. You will spend more on tyres but suspension mods will help here.

    I think cold air induction will be better for fuel economy. Hot air induction may mean ignition retard which reduces thermal efficiency. I'm not so sure on this point but the other points are solid. 246GT4 is entitled to his own opinions but not his own facts.

    For the OP. I used to be anal like you with a log book to monitor economy. I saw consistent gains while using that upper cylinder lube stuff in my RB30 R31. Morays or Lucas sells it. I think it seals the valves and rings a little better and also cleans the injectors. Also running with the airbox lid off for "more flow" made the economy worse. I think due to hot air.
    Last edited by 2JZR31; 06-04-17 at 12:52 AM.
    10.83 @ 125

    Quickest stock exhaust manifold stud 2JZ in Aus.


    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

  16. #136
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Been a while...
    Been busy with things...econ upgrades had been shelved for a while.
    Got an update to share...with some background reminders.

    Since I bought the ute ( and installed 2 1\2 inch sports system with headers) my econ for mixed driving had been 11.3L\100km which equates to 640km\75L tank...with a best hiway score of 10.7L\100km
    It was like this for about 3 years then in the last 12 months or so econ had dropped to 11.9, and near the end reaching 12.2L\100km.

    Quality oil is replaced every 7000K, running Iridium plugs
    and I've run both a K&N and paper filter which are always serviced regularly,
    grippy tyres 16x65x215 @ 38psi.
    Brakes and suspension always maintained and diff and gearbox oil serviced with additives added.
    I actually achieved an extra 10kph when rolling down hills after doing the gearbox and diff oil.

    Anyways, econ slowly became worse, then I bought a set of HP 40kw Drifter coils from Autotrad.
    Been running them for about a year.
    Best hiway score 10.6
    Current mixed driving 11.4.

    Conclusion: ( and I'll leave out the 12.2 and use 11.9 as the last econ numbers) These coils are brilliant.
    On hiway when my avg was 11.3, best I did was 10.7, but when avg was 11.9 I managed 10.6 with the Drifters.
    And mixed condition roads has dropped from 11.9 to 11.4.

    Except weight ballast, nothing else changed on me ute, thus better econ is achieved with these coils.
    Since 2nd last winter, when I had my first experience with black-ice and nearly smashed into an embankment at 80ks, I've been running 40kgs of weight in the rear of the tub, 20kg secured on each side.

    The owner of the small company is a car enthusiast and a top bloke to chat with.
    The coils have very tight tolerance levels, even so , after our discussion he hand picked a set to be as close to each other as possible. (unlike another aftermarket set I bought that had worse tolerance levels than OEMS)

    Averaged out, the econ works out to an extra 20K a tank, and apart from the numbers, I can actually feel the increase in power, the donk, going through the gears, just feels smoother and is more responsive.

    Highly recommended.
    He also has some HP Brisk plugs that I purchased a while back but have to install them due to ongoing tests with the coils.
    Last edited by Jay17; 03-12-18 at 10:51 AM.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  17. #137
    No I'm Not Shonky Shonky's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    5,147
    Matched coils? Yeah righto.

    You really need to do this double blind.

    Your perceived improvements of things like best run economy improvements of 0.1l/100km would be well within margin of error given you are not controlling weather, destinations, traffic etc.

  18. #138
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    Been a while...
    Been busy with things...econ upgrades had been shelved for a while.
    Got an update to share...with some background reminders.

    Since I bought the ute ( and installed 2 1\2 inch sports system with headers) my econ for mixed driving had been 11.3L\100km which equates to 640km\75L tank...with a best hiway score of 10.7L\100km
    It was like this for about 3 years then in the last 12 months or so econ had dropped to 11.9, and near the end reaching 12.2L\100km.

    Quality oil is replaced every 7000K, running Iridium plugs
    and I've run both a K&N and paper filter which are always serviced regularly,
    grippy tyres 16x65x215 @ 38psi.
    Brakes and suspension always maintained and diff and gearbox oil serviced with additives added.
    I actually achieved an extra 10kph when rolling down hills after doing the gearbox and diff oil.

    Anyways, econ slowly became worse, then I bought a set of HP 40kw Drifter coils from Autotrad.
    Been running them for about a year.
    Best hiway score 10.6
    Current mixed driving 11.4.

    Conclusion: ( and I'll leave out the 12.2 and use 11.9 as the last econ numbers) These coils are brilliant.
    On hiway when my avg was 11.3, best I did was 10.7, but when avg was 11.9 I managed 10.6 with the Drifters.
    And mixed condition roads has dropped from 11.9 to 11.4.

    Except weight ballast, nothing else changed on me ute, thus better econ is achieved with these coils.
    Since 2nd last winter, when I had my first experience with black-ice and nearly smashed into an embankment at 80ks, I've been running 40kgs of weight in the rear of the tub, 20kg secured on each side.

    The owner of the small company is a car enthusiast and a top bloke to chat with.
    The coils have very tight tolerance levels, even so , after our discussion he hand picked a set to be as close to each other as possible. (unlike another aftermarket set I bought that had worse tolerance levels than OEMS)

    Averaged out, the econ works out to an extra 20K a tank, and apart from the numbers, I can actually feel the increase in power, the donk, going through the gears, just feels smoother and is more responsive.

    Highly recommended.
    He also has some HP Brisk plugs that I purchased a while back but have to install them due to ongoing tests with the coils.
    i think you are mistaken. those symptoms are for sure just down to climate change
    E30 325is M20 3.1L

  19. #139
    Registered User ls400x's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Location
    QLD
    Posts
    2,190
    I tend to agree but still enjoy reading this.

  20. #140
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by E30is View Post
    i think you are mistaken. those symptoms are for sure just down to climate change
    Please define what you mean by climate change?
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  21. #141
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ burn is weird's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    gold coast
    Posts
    1,803
    I hope you are also controlling for humidity, barometric pressure, ambient temperature and the same batch of fuel for these comparisons.

    Surely there is a specific interest hypermiking forum somewhere that will circlejerk this to your liking?

  22. #142
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    Please define what you mean by climate change?
    i think it is pretty self explanatory, see also the definition of the weather for more short term changes in humidity, barometric pressure, temperature etc etc

    the icing on the cake would be the energy polariser to get you that last 2L/100 reduction
    E30 325is M20 3.1L

  23. #143
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Location
    Tassie, up Lonnie way
    Posts
    111
    Quote Originally Posted by E30is View Post
    i think it is pretty self explanatory...
    Actually it's not for me because "climate change" usually refers to the global change over many years.
    So are you talking about the differences within each season of a year?
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  24. #144
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    NSW
    Posts
    522
    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    Actually it's not for me because "climate change" usually refers to the global change over many years.
    So are you talking about the differences within each season of a year?
    this thread is many years old.....
    E30 325is M20 3.1L

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •