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Thread: long term econ tests: aftermarket coils and other stuff

  1. #31
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TurbostyleR View Post
    What kind of air flow meter does the ford have. If it's a hotwire afm then this could be your problem.
    Don't know, will add that to list of things to research, as i will be replacing everything related to engine management, subject to price and others expert\experiential knowledge on what dies and what lasts.
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  2. #32
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper View Post
    Uses a map sensor, cleaning the throttle body is also worth doing. Best doing it with 2 people, 1 to use the pedal to open it and 1 to clean it
    Yep, throttle body, inlet manifold and associated parts all getting expert clean at mechs early Jan.
    Same time as O2 sensor replacement.

    Son is visiting in Jan, wants to do shitloads of sightseeing, so getting all that done before we do a ton of driving.
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  3. #33
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraud View Post
    I'm 90% confident that is incorrect when talking about non turbo 4 BA 4 speed boxes.

    Even the speedo will still read correctly because it runs off the ABS wheel sensors (unless you have a non-ABS model)

    I do remember reading something about issues with cruise control or something though, but regardless you can get the diff ratio changed in the ECU when you get it tuned.
    I imagine any compatibility issues has to do with all the electronics regarding gearbox, though can't see how diff ratio changes would be a prob.
    Last edited by Jay17; 21-12-15 at 02:50 PM.
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  4. #34
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Okay... so did a full tank run since Gossy install, did ECU reset, checked all plugs set to 1.1mm, also installed top of the range Bosch battery.
    12.2L\100K...8.3kpl...23.44mpg
    start of the year was running 25.4mpg
    average thru year before coils got real bad was 23.67

    As mentioned earlier, replaced damaged air intake pipe, and did service on K& N filter.
    100Ks on new tank of fuel, currently doing 12.0L per.
    Wedsneday doing a 550K return run to Smithton for a bonnet swap, so that will be a good drive to see how the engine's doin'.

    No more work till 4th Jan.
    O2 sensor, power steering needs some work.
    Then do a couple tanks of testing, then do throttle body n inlet manifold clean.
    Last edited by Jay17; 21-12-15 at 02:51 PM.
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  5. #35
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Did a 600K run to woop woop far northwest for me new bonnet.
    Good mixture of terrain though 70% hiway speeds.
    Did 9.1kpl...25.7mpg...close to and ever so slightly better than econ at the beginnng of year 9kpl...25.4mpg.

    But i do recall at start of year( before i started logging data)...2 days worth of hi-way drivin' to Hobart and north Tassie getting mags n shit,
    and it dropped to 11.1L\100K..approx 700Ks a tank instead of the usual 640-600 of late...which equates to 9.86kpl...27.8mpg
    So i'm still workin' towards that

    The avg is still high at 11.8L\100K, but i suspect a lot of tanks are required to get it down,
    so i won't be using that as a correct measurement on a tank by tank basis.
    Ute was 11.3 when i got it, so maybe it takes months of driving to get an accurate avg.

    So now i am a smidge up on econ levels from start of year, it's now time to get it even lower.
    1st week in Jan, O2 sensor replacement and rebuild of whatever's fucked with power steering, as it's leaking a tad and groans a bit while reversing full lock.
    Apparantly the BA's, MKI at least, have powersteering issues.
    Last edited by Jay17; 25-12-15 at 11:30 AM.
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  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    The other day while masturbating over my copy of the BA workshop manual i came across the same info. <--see what i did there. 'masturbate' - 'came'

    Anyways, i read there are 3 versions of the 6speed boxs. having to do with i6, 6T and V8.
    Would appreciate some technical info Vagina, because back in the day when one of the most awesomest things you could do was whack a celica 5speed box into your holden or ford, no one had any issues with compatibility between different box gearing and diff ratios. You just drooled over a 5speed and lower diff ratio and went and did it, no probs.

    What issues will result if i stick in a 6speed and low ratio diff?

    Yes i really am interested in better econ, but i am also really interested in doing this with me ute.
    Multiple interests combined, not just econ. If my only interest was econ i woulda bought a 4cyl buzzbox onLP
    Would not own an auto either. Jezus, hooning\sports driving in an auto...where's the fukn enjoyment in that!

    The autos are electronic and get the speed signal from the tail shaft the speedo might run off the wheel speed but the gear changes run off the output of the box. They select the right ratio of final for the ratios of the gearbox for maximum efficiency changing the final ratio will most likely reduce fuel econ.

  7. #37
    Registered User ls400x's Avatar
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    Good read, makes me feel better about my 11-13L/100km 1uz/LS400.

  8. #38
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K-MAC View Post
    The autos are electronic and get the speed signal from the tail shaft the speedo might run off the wheel speed but the gear changes run off the output of the box. They select the right ratio of final for the ratios of the gearbox for maximum efficiency changing the final ratio will most likely reduce fuel econ.
    Already stated i'm not running an Auto, K-MAC.
    And it seems logical that a lower diff ratio will increase econ....wait, is it higher or lower, i still get those two confused?
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  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    Already stated i'm not running an Auto, K-MAC.
    And it seems logical that a lower diff ratio will increase econ....wait, is it higher or lower, i still get those two confused?
    Oh sorry I miss read I thought you had an auto. By all means change the diff then.

  10. #40
    Runs on Astron power! karl_2ltGC's Avatar
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    Can i suggest binning the K&N filter. You should not be using a oiled filter on a modern car (or anything that's not racing in the dirt for that matter). One thing I have learnt in my old(er) age is that OEM stuff is better, especially as you are running it in stock trim.
    Replace the oxygen sensor, disconnect the battery to clear the ecu and go drive the thing. If you want to spend some money, I suggest a set of extractors generally improve economy in my experience also (even with the rest of the system stock).


    Not sure if you already onto this, but if you have a smart phone then fuelly is a good way to log your fuel economy. For the record my aristo averages 11.2l/100ks. http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/ari...rlcho88/280668
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post


    O2 sensor is booked for 1st week in Jan as although since Goss coils install engine is running better, there's still a slight lurching at low speeds.
    In the search for better economy and running, I would get the injectors checked and cleaned, as their spray pattern by now could be ordinary. If the spray pattern is poor this can cause a lean condition which can cause surging. My BA Wagon auto gets between 10.2 and 11.2 L/100 on a 40klm commute to Brisbane through the city, depending on what shift I am on. Standard type air cleaner and plugs etc using 95 octane 10% ethanol type fuel.

  12. #42
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Haven't posted for a while due to no new work being done, but econ tests are still active.

    Quote Originally Posted by karl_2ltGC View Post
    Can i suggest binning the K&N filter. You should not be using a oiled filter on a modern car (or anything that's not racing in the dirt for that matter). One thing I have learnt in my old(er) age is that OEM stuff is better, especially as you are running it in stock trim.
    Replace the oxygen sensor, disconnect the battery to clear the ecu and go drive the thing. If you want to spend some money, I suggest a set of extractors generally improve economy in my experience also (even with the rest of the system stock).
    - By all means, feel free to suggest i bin the K&N. I welcome suggestions and experiential knowledge. That's one of the main reasons for sharing this in a forum.
    I 'd like to hear your reason(s) why i should do this.
    - O2 sensor was booked for replacement at start of year, and was done so.
    - 2 1\2in system with extractors and hi-flo cat was the first thing i did way back when i bought it.
    - Flushed and replaced gearbox and diff oil with Hi-Tec oil and additives. Gear changing is smoother and car rolls easier.

    - Full inlet manifold and injector clean is booked in for later this year as i am now up to 12.4L\100KLMS.
    - Mechanic also mentioned i may have slight inlet leakage or crack in whatever hoses or gaskets relate to fuel management, as ute still has rough idle.
    He can do a crack\leak test while doing the inlet clean.
    - TurboStyleR mentions an 'air flow meter', so that will be looked at as well.

    Apart from those couple of things, i have replaced everything else related to econ issues of engine management.
    I suspect dirty inlet manifold-injectors is the main issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by karl_2ltGC View Post
    Not sure if you already onto this, but if you have a smart phone then fuelly is a good way to log your fuel economy. For the record my aristo averages 11.2l/100ks. http://www.fuelly.com/car/toyota/ari...rlcho88/280668
    Thanks, but i prefer to do all the calculations myself and log it all on a basic text editor.
    I use my converter app for other things so i prefer to use that. Exercising the mind is always enjoyable.
    Last edited by Jay17; 14-06-16 at 05:32 AM.
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  13. #43
    Wanker MexicanBatman's Avatar
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    If you are that anal about your economy don't drive when it's cold

    Or wet and even worse when it's wet and cold and windy

    Your method leaves a margin for error great enough to invalidate any data even for comparison sake

    Thousands of km logged when I had a hybrid and comparing trip computer to calculated economy saw variations each week
    You may drive the same roads every day the same way at the same time, but it's still different

    I'd stop worrying and just use some 4c/L discount dockets if it really matters to you


    Fuck I drive an electric car and don't give a shit, I charge it when it's flat and put fuel in it once when I got it...
    ..........

  14. #44
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan M View Post
    In the search for better economy and running, I would get the injectors checked and cleaned, as their spray pattern by now could be ordinary. If the spray pattern is poor this can cause a lean condition which can cause surging. My BA Wagon auto gets between 10.2 and 11.2 L/100 on a 40klm commute to Brisbane through the city, depending on what shift I am on. Standard type air cleaner and plugs etc using 95 octane 10% ethanol type fuel.
    Yep, inlet and injector clean was booked for start of year but finances on hold for a while, will be doing that before the year is out.

    When i got the ute about 14-16 months ago, i was running 11.3L\100, sports exhaust system was installed by then.
    Then it started chewing more juice about 6 months in, so i started replacing parts bit by bit, but econ still slowly got worse.
    As i just mentioned to karl_2ltGC, dirty manifold and injectors seems to be main culprit.

    But that's on hold for a bit 'cus of crappy quality of fords this last decade( i often cooked my Ef sedan's brakes with no warping), i had all discs machined and installed new pads start of year.
    Had two runs on The Sidling, which is a 10-20 minute run up and down a tight windy mountain, 2nd gear stuff.
    Slightly cooked the brakes on two separate occasions, cheap ass metal, the front discs warped badly, so have to re-machine the fronts and save up for some slotted and drilled DBAs.
    Last edited by Jay17; 20-06-16 at 09:20 PM.
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  15. #45
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MexicanBatman View Post
    If you are that anal about your economy don't drive when it's cold

    Or wet and even worse when it's wet and cold and windy

    Your method leaves a margin for error great enough to invalidate any data even for comparison sake

    Thousands of km logged when I had a hybrid and comparing trip computer to calculated economy saw variations each week
    You may drive the same roads every day the same way at the same time, but it's still different

    I'd stop worrying and just use some 4c/L discount dockets if it really matters to you


    Fuck I drive an electric car and don't give a shit, I charge it when it's flat and put fuel in it once when I got it...
    I'd say this thread is not for you then.
    Last edited by Jay17; 14-06-16 at 05:34 AM.
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  16. #46
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    i think you need to start taping up all your panel gaps and get rid of your rear view mirrors. they're killing your Cd.

    Oo___oO


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    Im guessing your not going off the average L/100km on the dash read out? My ba mk2 has been sitting on 14.9 for over 6 months and ive calculated its economy at 13.7/ 100km, its had a few ecu resets and thats the best it gets for the 5.4
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  18. #48
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MexicanBatman View Post
    If you are that anal about your economy don't drive a BA XR6
    Fixed. Buying a BA XR6 and being anal about fuel economy is like putting a bloke in a dress and saying you have a girlfriend.
    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  19. #49
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    Pulse and glide gets all the bitchez.

  20. #50
    Registered User ls400x's Avatar
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    I can see the appeal in optimising what you have.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls400x View Post
    I can see the appeal in optimising what you have.
    +1.. its not necessarily productive, but it is always interesting.
    Quote Originally Posted by myshortyboomba View Post
    I've had many gauges in cars. I always found the conrods react faster than a gauge.

    you can always hear them when they break and they stop the engine immediately so you can't do any more damage.

  22. #52
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by val245 View Post
    Im guessing your not going off the average L/100km on the dash read out? My ba mk2 has been sitting on 14.9 for over 6 months and ive calculated its economy at 13.7/ 100km, its had a few ecu resets and thats the best it gets for the 5.4
    I do both. From 1st day i decided to conduct econ experiments, i keep an eye on the trip puta avg readout and do my own calculations each tank refill.

    During the process, due to running out of fuel twice, as i wanted to test the accuracy of the trip puta, it presents inaccurate readings when it warns you how many more Ks you got left when tank is low. But apart from that, the L\100km readout still matches my manual calculations.

    Since having me ute for over a year now, my 1st BA, my opinion is Ford's quality has gone down the toilet big time, my previous EF sedan was built way better than this one, and even my previous '99 XH XR6 ute had a better interior, so it would not surprise me that other fords have constant inaccurate readouts.
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  23. #53
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls400x View Post
    I can see the appeal in optimising what you have.
    Yep. Not only do i work towards saving cash each tank, but i am learning some intricate things about the new ECU controlled cars, and potentially learning about what is a waste of money to put on a car, plus learning how to still have some hard core but sensible fun on the roads while staying within chosen parameters...i hoon about once a week but always stay within the speed limits. I imagine some people get a buzz from going as fast as possible and doing donuts-burnouts, while i prefer to push myself as far as possible while keeping within the designated limits and driving safely for other motorists. I prefer spending money on suspension and brakes than horsepower. Econ is simply a new factor to have fun with.

    And in the case of the forum, while doing all thus geek stuff, there's free entertainment from the comedians and trolls who come in and share their witty and not so witty remarks.
    Last edited by Jay17; 20-06-16 at 09:17 PM.
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  24. #54
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vet 180 View Post
    Fixed. Buying a BA XR6 and being anal about fuel economy is like putting a bloke in a dress and saying you have a girlfriend.
    Now that's an analogy ! <--look out, dad joke.
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  25. #55
    Registered User Fraud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay17 View Post
    I do both. From 1st day i decided to conduct econ experiments, i keep an eye on the trip puta avg readout and do my own calculations each tank refill.

    During the process, due to running out of fuel twice, as i wanted to test the accuracy of the trip puta, it presents inaccurate readings when it warns you how many more Ks you got left when tank is low. But apart from that, the L\100km readout still matches my manual calculations.
    I can back that up - I did the same with by BFII ute over a couple of years, my manual calculations were consistently identical to the trip computer readout (or within a rounding error margin at most), which always amazed me.

    The accuracy of the distance to empty readout goes both ways... it tries to be smart, but in doing so ends up being no more useful than a light that comes on saying "oi cunt, buy fuel". It is working with a rough idea of the fuel left in the tank, and your consumption average over the last x km (or similar). I've seen it hit zero km and then go back up to 10. However if I was bored on the highway I used to fill up, read the DTE based on the full tank, add that to the odometer and keep a mental note of that number, then continuously monitor that to see how I was driving. It was a mildly amusing way to stay alert.

    At some point you just give in and drive the fucking thing with no regard, but in my situation I initially went from driving an 8L/100 gemini to a 13.5L/100 ute, while not earning a whole lot, just as fuel got to the $120/tank price point, and since I'd never really budgeted for it, I spent a lot of time trying to work out ways to optimise... buy fuel when its cheap (even if you've still got 3/4 of a tank), and stay out of traffic were the only two constants.
    Quote Originally Posted by myshortyboomba View Post
    I've had many gauges in cars. I always found the conrods react faster than a gauge.

    you can always hear them when they break and they stop the engine immediately so you can't do any more damage.

  26. #56
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraud View Post
    I can back that up - I did the same with by BFII ute over a couple of years, my manual calculations were consistently identical to the trip computer readout (or within a rounding error margin at most), which always amazed me.

    The accuracy of the distance to empty readout goes both ways... it tries to be smart, but in doing so ends up being no more useful than a light that comes on saying "oi cunt, buy fuel". It is working with a rough idea of the fuel left in the tank, and your consumption average over the last x km (or similar). I've seen it hit zero km and then go back up to 10. However if I was bored on the highway I used to fill up, read the DTE based on the full tank, add that to the odometer and keep a mental note of that number, then continuously monitor that to see how I was driving. It was a mildly amusing way to stay alert.

    At some point you just give in and drive the fucking thing with no regard, but in my situation I initially went from driving an 8L/100 gemini to a 13.5L/100 ute, while not earning a whole lot, just as fuel got to the $120/tank price point, and since I'd never really budgeted for it, I spent a lot of time trying to work out ways to optimise... buy fuel when its cheap (even if you've still got 3/4 of a tank), and stay out of traffic were the only two constants.
    Haha, i hear ya, i now just use it to tell me when i hit the "40Ks left" warning, then go fill up. Due to manual calculations i prefer to empty the tank as far as possible before filling up.

    I'm forced early retirement on a carer's pension so cash is limited, but still in a reasonable supply as i have no interest draining debts apart from the ute loan, and i needed a ute for firewood and shit, and a buzzbox is too costly to run in the long run, so doing lots of econ experiments allows me to still have an average hoon car, that i can give it a good squirt once week or fortnight.

    Plus the more cash i spend on tightening the suspension will lower fuel costs and tyre wear.

    One thing i noticed with experiments is with older cars is that driving at 90K instead of 100 gave me an extra 50Ks\tank(on me EF). 90K was the optimal speed.
    But with the BA, possibly due to more refinement of the EMS, i get the same econ at 90-110, but i chew the juice at 80 and less.
    I also get an econ increase when i'm on cruise, whereas me mum's jellyfish magna wagon has a horrendous cruise control.
    The BA on cruise, when speeding up from 60 to 100 takes it's sweet time, seemingly configured for econ instead of getting their asap.

    ECU tune is on the cards, way up the road, and a replacement where i can have two settings is even further away.

    After i do the inlet and injector clean, the last of the tiny elements to replace or clean, i am going to experiment with hot air induction.
    My thinking is that if cold air induction kits increase power due to the ECU reading the sensors and throwing more fuel in,
    then hot air going in the air intake might produce the opposite response.

    And of course, i think the biggest element regarding econ is how you drive when in normal mode.
    In the BA, all i gotta do is have a slightly increased leadfoot through the gears to reach any speed limit, and i really chew the juice.
    So when i'm not hooning, i'm in really laid back chauffeur mode, never in a rush, taking my sweet time in all situations.
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  27. #57
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Ute lost 70Ks this last tank, econ dropped severely.
    Manifold clean and leak test booked in for next friday.
    Clean the K&N at same time.
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  28. #58
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Okay, manifold clean was done. Definite improvement...but not for economy. ~Hulk sad~
    Ute now runs smoother, has more grunt.
    Tacho needle always fluttered at idle, even when i first bought ute.
    But there was no irratic behavior from motor at any speed, till econ started dropping 6 months later and i noticed slight surging at 40-60 cruise speeds.

    That's all sorted now, so manifold was definitely dirty. Tacho needle just floats nicely at idle now, and engine is as smooth as fuck.

    But this econ just keeps dropping, i am now at 12.7L\100K
    One odd thing i noticed from the inlet clean; before, my econ was good(and would inprove) at 80-110 speeds and chewed the juice at 80 and lower speeds.
    Since clean, econ is now better at the low speeds and stays the same at high speeds.
    Though only just onto 2nd tank since clean so will see what happens over next couple of weeks.

    So even though manifold clean did make very noticeable improvements, it is not the decreasing econ culprit.

    Summary of work and status of ute so far...ute has just turned over 210,000Ks

    - Goss coils installed Dec '15 with new platinium plugs and HD Bosch battery. Done 17,000K
    - O2 sensor installed Jan '16
    - Tyre pressures; front 42; rear 40
    - K&N filter installed @189,000Ks, cleaned and reoiled every engine service 5-7000K
    - Gearbox and diff flushed and serviced with additives @ 200,000K
    - HD Kings front springs and new OEM specs shocks all round + Ironman Load Plus rear booster springs installed Nov '15
    - Suspension is good, bearings etc, new brake pads and all disks machined Nov '15

    Eco was 11.3L\100Ks through 2015, has slowly dropped to 11.8, but last couple of months it dropped to 12.5.

    Everything i have done has made ute run better so obviously i still haven't found reason.

    Going through the thread, will be checking out things people have said...
    - air flow meter
    - clean throttle body(check if that was done with manifold clean just done)
    - if cheap enough, i will replace injectors.

    From research just now, thinking about all the sensors related to engine-econ
    - O2 sensor
    - Coolant sensors
    - Throttle position sensor
    - MAP sensor(manifold absolute pressure)
    - MAF sensor(mass airflow)
    - CKP sensors (crankshaft & camshaft position)
    - VSS sensor (vehicle speed sensor) Cars with ABS usually have Wheel Speed Sensors (WSS) to monitor each of the wheels.
    - IAT sensor(inlet air temp)

    All of these(not sure about throttle position sensor) can affect econ if faulty.
    ~gleefully rubs hands together~ so many things to examine and test.

    Will do experiment to test for differences between OEM air filter and oiled up K&N, but can't do this till decreasing econ culprit is sorted, as econ is constantly decreasing.
    Last edited by Jay17; 14-08-16 at 08:00 AM.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

  29. #59
    Registered User ls400x's Avatar
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    How was the manifold clean performed?

  30. #60
    bloke with a ute Jay17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ls400x View Post
    How was the manifold clean performed?
    Seems to be a standard process for mechanics.
    My rough iinterpretation is they either take over the fuel line or inject the cleaner through the air inlet on a running motor for 30 mins, an engine oil change is required after this procedure.
    Checked with the boys yesterday, throttle body clean was part of the process.
    "Let's not jump to conclusions" - Mike - MST3K

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