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Thread: Electric hydraulic power steering pump and speed control?

  1. #1
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Electric hydraulic power steering pump and speed control?

    On the MX5 a common mod is to depower the rack by just looping the ends. Mine has this done to it.

    Now on khanas it can be a bit of a pain with a depowered rack, so i have been considering whether it is worth getting an Astra electric PS pump or similar and re-powering the rack like that. Now, what would be very useful is to be able to link that with a speed input, so that it depowers over a certain speed. This seems to be what the MR2 pump is capable of, but with far more electronics.

    Anyone mucked around with this sort of thing?
    Chris
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  2. #2
    This space left blank Ben Wilson's Avatar
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    Have you ever driven a NA6 with factory power steering? It's a night and day difference compared to the factory non powered cars.

    I'd suggest an electric pump and trying it without the speed input stuff before worrying about it.
    Imagination is more important than knowledge.

  3. #3
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    the astra ones are heavy, i'd try fit a factory pump as plan A and an electric assist column as plan B before going down that route.
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  4. #4
    This space left blank Ben Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRD-MX62 View Post
    the astra ones are heavy, i'd try fit a factory pump as plan A and an electric assist column as plan B before going down that route.
    Is it possible to get decent steering feel with an electric assist column without needing a supercomputer to run it?
    Imagination is more important than knowledge.

  5. #5
    Registered User TRD-MX62's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Wilson View Post
    Is it possible to get decent steering feel with an electric assist column without needing a supercomputer to run it?
    AFAIK someone was selling a controller box for the toyota columns
    Quote Originally Posted by ALLMTR View Post
    the theory is the fuel pump is one of the only things that can fuck out on a diesel

  6. #6
    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRD-MX62 View Post
    AFAIK someone was selling a controller box for the toyota columns
    yup.

    Takai- ask smee what he ended up with in the rally rolla. He has an electric column setup with a controller I think.

    1998 MX5 - Ohlins DFV coilovers, Roll bar,15 x7.5 Konig Litespeeds, Mania Intake
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    The Gayzelle has an astra pump in it, nothing fancy controlling it just a dash mounted toggle switch.

    Works well, has good steering feel and you soon realise if you have forgotten to turn it on
    Ban low performance drivers not high performance cars

  8. #8
    This space left blank Ben Wilson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rowdytoot View Post
    yup.

    Takai- ask smee what he ended up with in the rally rolla. He has an electric column setup with a controller I think.
    Gravel tyres, dirt road and FWD. Very different.
    Imagination is more important than knowledge.

  9. #9
    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Wilson View Post
    Gravel tyres, dirt road and FWD. Very different.
    Same same bit different, it's an option..

    Personally id just repower the rack and fit a cooler...

    1998 MX5 - Ohlins DFV coilovers, Roll bar,15 x7.5 Konig Litespeeds, Mania Intake
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  10. #10
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Nah, will live with manual depowered rack over retrofitting an electric. Could go back to the stock unit, and might do when i go BP, but for now refitting the NA6 PS doesnt appeal. Last NA6 i drove with PS felt quite twitchy above 80, whereas this feels quite stable up and above highway speeds.
    Chris
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  11. #11
    Registered User Fraud's Avatar
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    it always seemed to me like a simple pressure switch would solve all of this.. start turning wheel, fluid flows, pressure drops below X so pump turns on. stop turning wheel, pressure builds up again, pump turns off...

    But there is probably something obvious I'm missing about hydraulics or something that would stop this from working
    Quote Originally Posted by myshortyboomba View Post
    I've had many gauges in cars. I always found the conrods react faster than a gauge.

    you can always hear them when they break and they stop the engine immediately so you can't do any more damage.

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    Fraud, the way at least the commodore power steering racks I've pulled apart work is that when there's no torque through the input shaft, the fluid flows freely through a bypass hole. So very little pressure.
    As you apply torque through the input shaft it starts closing the bypass hole (increasing pressure against the pump) and opening a hole connected to the hyrdaulic "ram" on the rack, which of course provides the assistance.

  13. #13
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Could you put an i30 rack in there which is full electric assist, no hydro?
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    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg Rust View Post
    Could you put an i30 rack in there which is full electric assist, no hydro?
    I thought they did it in the column?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  15. #15
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Actually that maybe true. Might be easy to adapt.
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  17. #17
    Registered User Fraud's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose View Post
    Fraud, the way at least the commodore power steering racks I've pulled apart work is that when there's no torque through the input shaft, the fluid flows freely through a bypass hole. So very little pressure.
    As you apply torque through the input shaft it starts closing the bypass hole (increasing pressure against the pump) and opening a hole connected to the hyrdaulic "ram" on the rack, which of course provides the assistance.
    That makes sense thanks!
    Quote Originally Posted by myshortyboomba View Post
    I've had many gauges in cars. I always found the conrods react faster than a gauge.

    you can always hear them when they break and they stop the engine immediately so you can't do any more damage.

  18. #18
    Bannered takai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fraud View Post
    That makes sense thanks!
    Hence why i want to turn it off entirely when at speed.

    Interestingly i found that the power steering rack is a tighter ratio rack (lower turns lock to lock) than the manual one, which is probably why it feels pretty ok at highway speeds when depowered.
    Chris
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    I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

  19. #19
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    Can you do something like a pressure bleed off? Maybe the pressure on the pump relief valve can be made adjustable somehow?

    The commodore variable assistance racks use a PWM solenoid to bleed off pressure increasingly with speed.
    Last edited by goose; 13-05-18 at 12:17 AM.

  20. #20
    Down with ma homies Greg Rust's Avatar
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    Just grind the pressure relief spring in the pump down at bit at a time.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monza View Post
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  21. #21
    Registered User irsa76's Avatar
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    Have seen guys using these before:http://www.heidts.com/part/adjustabl...-valve-ps-101/

  22. #22
    Registered User MWP's Avatar
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    I still do plan to make & sell my Toyota CANBUS based EPS controller sometime.
    It'll work with most, if not all, 2005+ Toyota EPS systems (including the 86).

  23. #23
    Crash Test Dummy smee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWP View Post
    I still do plan to make & sell my Toyota CANBUS based EPS controller sometime.
    It'll work with most, if not all, 2005+ Toyota EPS systems (including the 86).
    When will that be???

    Still running in limp mode on my setup and it seems to be running fine. Have not been able to beat it, even on tarmac and with tight hairpin corners.

    Problem identified though.
    If you lock a front wheel, and it is enough to stall the car, it interrupts the power supply to the power assist. This makes the steering very heavy (not a good thing when you are trying to conquer a slalom between big hay bales on a wet dirt road at speed and even on loose gravel). It also takes a while to identify it has power to it on start up.
    Sturgeon's Revelation (sometimes referred to as his second law): Ninety percent of everything is CRAP

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