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Thread: ZD30 - Pin fell out of the Grenade

  1. #31
    anyone? MRMOPARMAN's Avatar
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    Yep, as vet180 said. It wouldnt cost a whole heap more going 6l and 6l80e. But the end result will be a billion times better.

    You could even use an L76 and keep it stock with the DOD for better economies.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
    70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper
    Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

  2. #32
    aka SpaZdA (tm) mondo2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAZ914 View Post
    The aim of this is to be able to tow the campervan and car trailer reliably - hopefully slightly faster than the ZD30 without using too much extra fuel.

    I like the simplicity of NA in this application and the auto should make up for any 'off idle' torque issues.
    Barra, TB45/48, or LS (turbo or no) will not be faster in a patrol than the ZD30, due to the amount of time they will be stopped refuelling

    Turbo anything or stock TB45/8 will literally use double (or possibly more) the fuel of the ZD30 when loaded up. Non turbo Barra or LS will use 50% more. I pity the fool who owns a fourby that requires PULP.

    Apart from the cost, limited fuel range is a massive pain in the arse when touring.

  3. #33
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  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondo2000 View Post
    Barra, TB45/48, or LS (turbo or no) will not be faster in a patrol than the ZD30, due to the amount of time they will be stopped refuelling

    Turbo anything or stock TB45/8 will literally use double (or possibly more) the fuel of the ZD30 when loaded up. Non turbo Barra or LS will use 50% more. I pity the fool who owns a fourby that requires PULP.

    Apart from the cost, limited fuel range is a massive pain in the arse when touring.
    I think youíre forgetting about the time off the road for the zd30 being blown up


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    Quote Originally Posted by mondo2000 View Post
    Barra, TB45/48, or LS (turbo or no) will not be faster in a patrol than the ZD30, due to the amount of time they will be stopped refuelling

    Turbo anything or stock TB45/8 will literally use double (or possibly more) the fuel of the ZD30 when loaded up. Non turbo Barra or LS will use 50% more. I pity the fool who owns a fourby that requires PULP.

    Apart from the cost, limited fuel range is a massive pain in the arse when touring.
    Lol, imagine a brand new 4x4 that needed PULP back in 1997. The Pajero DOHC 3.5 needed PULP, major issue outside of major centers back then. Especially given their epic fuel consumption, iirc they were as thirsty as the, less powerful, 4.5 Land Cruiser.

  6. #36
    aka SpaZdA (tm) mondo2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    I think youíre forgetting about the time off the road for the zd30 being blown up


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    Owning a ZD30 is like an IQ test. Normally I say if you blow one up, you fail. I'll give GAZ914 the benefit of doubt since it may have been half fucked when he got it.

    If you've blown up 3 you must be a new level of retard.

  7. #37
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    I think youíve got that wrong. Owning a zd30 is retarded

  8. #38
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    Something I never unstood about EGR blocks / removal. Removing EGR increases combustion temps, why is this a good thing in an engine that is known for melting pistons?

    Having looked at a few conversions for Patrols myself, my final outcome will likely be to just buy a tb48 (currently in a tb45) and just drive the cunt. There's a few worries I still have about using parts not really designed for offroad and/or the teething issues that conversions can have compared to a stock Nissan or Toyota design. If all you were doing were trips close to the highway, then I wouldn't be as worried. I don't think Diesels are anywhere as good as people make them out to be and diesel tends to be around 20% more expensive* in Sydney over 91 octane, diesel lovers often seem to forget that fact. A mate of mine in a td42 uses about 20% less fuel than me in my tb45, perfectly offset by the price of fuel *yes I know this varies in different areas.

    That said, I did prefer the overall conversion of the Barra turbo over the LS in terms of ease of job and bang for buck with increased boost. You can get alternator relocation kits for the Barra conversions and decent engine mounts (both of which you couldnt get about 12 months ago). The Barras also dont seem to have the overheating issues the LS' have in patrols, although most of this seems to have been solved with the Marks engine fan, over the (probably chinese) thermos that many used to run.

    Bit hard to beat the sound of a v8 I must admit. Some guys were having issues with the 6l80 offroad on steep inclines, the box would slip and carry on like a porkchop. Not sure if this is something that;s been solved yet.

    In terms of fuel range, what numbers are you after? I can do 900 km in my TB45, which comes in at 3,300kg without anyone in it, on Toyo MT 33s and 3 inch lift. Long range main I picked up for $300 in almost new condition, and a factory sub tank mod gives me a total of 187l. Single jerry on the roof takes me to 1,000km. Not many places you can't make in Australia with that sort of range. A few TB48 owners are reporting consumption in the mid to low 20s with 2t + of van on the back. It's always hard to believe some internet fuel numbers, but food for thought I guess.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar3nbe View Post
    Something I never unstood about EGR blocks / removal. Removing EGR increases combustion temps, why is this a good thing in an engine that is known for melting pistons?

    Having looked at a few conversions for Patrols myself, my final outcome will likely be to just buy a tb48 (currently in a tb45) and just drive the cunt. There's a few worries I still have about using parts not really designed for offroad and/or the teething issues that conversions can have compared to a stock Nissan or Toyota design. If all you were doing were trips close to the highway, then I wouldn't be as worried. I don't think Diesels are anywhere as good as people make them out to be and diesel tends to be around 20% more expensive* in Sydney over 91 octane, diesel lovers often seem to forget that fact. A mate of mine in a td42 uses about 20% less fuel than me in my tb45, perfectly offset by the price of fuel *yes I know this varies in different areas.
    Yes and no. Obviously egr is reintroducing a useless gas, so the engine has to work a little harder even at cruise. You will find after egr removal that you will use slightly less throttle at speed because the engines working more efficiently, so exhaust temps shouldn't be higher. Also reduces intake clogging and your reducing engine bay over complication so there is less shit to go wrong offroad.

    You do make good points re petrol vs diesel. Modern petrol engines and transmissions are closing the range/economy gap with diesels. And the age of simplistic diesels that can be repaired on the side of the road are long gone. Petrol motors are simple compared to modern diesels these days.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
    70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper
    Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

  10. #40
    Registered User ar3nbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOPARMAN View Post
    Yes and no. Obviously egr is reintroducing a useless gas, so the engine has to work a little harder even at cruise. You will find after egr removal that you will use slightly less throttle at speed because the engines working more efficiently, so exhaust temps shouldn't be higher. Also reduces intake clogging and your reducing engine bay over complication so there is less shit to go wrong offroad.

    There was an interesting, albeit anecdotal discussion on the ZD30 facey page with those who had pulled pins and those who didn't, it seems that out of the handful that had done big km, they were stock and the ones with NADS were the ones that seemed to blow. Made be think back to my university days and dig into the diesel engine courses we did in regards to EGR, combustion temps etc etc.

    Interesting discussion point that I think would be better explored if the ZD30, in running form was a decent engine. I personally think the ZD30 screams euro with the multiple sensor issues they have and just random crap that goes wrong, not including the grenade issues.

    There are some fantastic diesels out there, I watch in anticipation for the 6bt progress that is made with Patrols but the reality is for the drivetrain to be reliable, it needs a stronger gearbox and a Dana out back. The stock patrol gearbox and diffs just arnt lasting with anything more than stock 6bt torque. But as a general rule of thumb I think I am not strongly leaning back towards petrols. The total cost of ownership is just that much better, I feel as a whole they are more reliable for the same power output and you have more options to choose from.

  11. #41
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar3nbe View Post
    There was an interesting, albeit anecdotal discussion on the ZD30 facey page with those who had pulled pins and those who didn't, it seems that out of the handful that had done big km, they were stock and the ones with NADS were the ones that seemed to blow. Made be think back to my university days and dig into the diesel engine courses we did in regards to EGR, combustion temps etc etc.

    Interesting discussion point that I think would be better explored if the ZD30, in running form was a decent engine. I personally think the ZD30 screams euro with the multiple sensor issues they have and just random crap that goes wrong, not including the grenade issues.

    There are some fantastic diesels out there, I watch in anticipation for the 6bt progress that is made with Patrols but the reality is for the drivetrain to be reliable, it needs a stronger gearbox and a Dana out back. The stock patrol gearbox and diffs just arnt lasting with anything more than stock 6bt torque. But as a general rule of thumb I think I am not strongly leaning back towards petrols. The total cost of ownership is just that much better, I feel as a whole they are more reliable for the same power output and you have more options to choose from.
    Have a look at the new 4.5 Cummins. It's like a common rail 4bt.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by mondo2000 View Post
    Owning a ZD30 is like an IQ test. Normally I say if you blow one up, you fail. I'll give GAZ914 the benefit of doubt since it may have been half fucked when he got it.

    If you've blown up 3 you must be a new level of retard.
    Lol, these things are cancer. We had three blow up in work utes over about 3 months. Absolute garbage. If you're saying that egt gauges and engine mods are needed to make a stock engine survive you're out of your mind.

    I like the idea of an ls1, seriously would be on par with fuel and triple the power. I think it would be a great tow car with one.
    Retard Honour Wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    Rob Sloth Young did i ask for your opinion? no. i only want it for a paddock bomb. go play with traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    you stupid fucken imbicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles
    your are a fucken idiot of the highest level.

  13. #43
    aka SpaZdA (tm) mondo2000's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMuz View Post

    I like the idea of an ls1, seriously would be on par with fuel and triple the power. I think it would be a great tow car with one.
    Commodores get good fuel economy because they are a modern, low drag vehicle with moonshot gearing, and when they're idling along at 1800rpm with bugger all load the ecu can advance the fuck out of the ignition timing on an already high compression engine.

    Put the same engine in a Patrol (presumably mated to a much older nissan transmission, auto or manual, transfer case and diff gears) and it will be using heaps more fuel before taking the barn door aerodynamics into account, or the tall, high rolling resistance tyres, or the added drag of various shit added to the Patrol, or the added drivetrain loss of the 10 inch crown wheel truck diff in the rear, or the front diff when in 4WD, or the tyre slip on loose surfaces.

    Also, how big are the intake ports in an LS1 again? A Holden 304 would be a better engine in a Patrol.

  14. #44
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    ZD30 - Pin fell out of the Grenade

    Quote Originally Posted by mondo2000 View Post
    Commodores get good fuel economy because they are a modern, low drag vehicle with moonshot gearing, and when they're idling along at 1800rpm with bugger all load the ecu can advance the fuck out of the ignition timing on an already high compression engine.

    Put the same engine in a Patrol (presumably mated to a much older nissan transmission, auto or manual, transfer case and diff gears) and it will be using heaps more fuel before taking the barn door aerodynamics into account, or the tall, high rolling resistance tyres, or the added drag of various shit added to the Patrol, or the added drivetrain loss of the 10 inch crown wheel truck diff in the rear, or the front diff when in 4WD, or the tyre slip on loose surfaces.

    Also, how big are the intake ports in an LS1 again? A Holden 304 would be a better engine in a Patrol.
    This X10.

    Not to mention the weight of the tyres and the effect that has on fuel economy. Your average commodore tire weighs around 20lb your average 35 inch mud weighs closer to 65lb. I stepped up 2 inches in tire size and 10lb in weight and lost 100kms over a tank.....

    I have yet to see an economical LS patrol swap. People compare modern sedan figures to modified 4x4 figures and put the difference down to the engine, but reality is quite different.

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    Last edited by vet 180; 31-12-18 at 09:53 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  15. #45
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    If a zd30 pushes it along with 100 hp an ls would be fine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    Rob Sloth Young did i ask for your opinion? no. i only want it for a paddock bomb. go play with traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    you stupid fucken imbicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles
    your are a fucken idiot of the highest level.

  16. #46
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    https://youtu.be/A4lY2j1zD5Q

    Thrashing around the street like a fuckwit and some highway running gets me 25 per 100 on 35s and lift. ZD was around 15 for the same.


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  17. #47
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigMuz View Post
    If a zd30 pushes it along with 100 hp an ls would be fine.
    It will do just fine, but wonít be similar in terms of fuel economy


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    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  18. #48
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    https://youtu.be/A4lY2j1zD5Q

    Thrashing around the street like a fuckwit and some highway running gets me 25 per 100 on 35s and lift. ZD was around 15 for the same.


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    Lol, love it.

    Most claim around 17-20l per hunj for daily duties.

    They make sense on a $4k blown zd30 GU, but I'm not sure I'd be pulling a running tb48 for a LS.


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  19. #49
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    A smarter human would sell their running zd and get a tb48.

    I was going to but couldnít find a series 3 manual that hadnít been sunk in the beach. After series 3 they didnít have a sub tank I think in the tb48.


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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by da9jeff View Post
    Lol, love it.

    Most claim around 17-20l per hunj for daily duties.

    They make sense on a $4k blown zd30 GU, but I'm not sure I'd be pulling a running tb48 for a LS.


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    Have you sampled how much fuel tb48s use? LSs are pretty similar and make half the power again over a tb48. And holden has a pretty good parts network. Would be heaps easier getting LS bits than tb48 bits.

    The economy reports on the barra patrols Facebook pages is averaging 15/18l per 100 from turbo barras and 6 speeds. Thought thst was fairly reasonable
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
    70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper
    Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

  21. #51
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Depends what you want it for. 10-15k for a LS buys a lot of fuel. TBs dont seem to break. The carby versions are pretty puss but the efi 45 and 48 seem to be about as robust as any 4wd petrol motor.

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    Last edited by da9jeff; 01-01-19 at 07:26 AM.
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  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOPARMAN View Post
    Have you sampled how much fuel tb48s use? LSs are pretty similar and make half the power again over a tb48. And holden has a pretty good parts network. Would be heaps easier getting LS bits than tb48 bits.

    The economy reports on the barra patrols Facebook pages is averaging 15/18l per 100 from turbo barras and 6 speeds. Thought thst was fairly reasonable
    Does the ZF bolt up to the transfer easy? Is quick google doesnít show any ZF to transfer adapters. If it does it is the way to go imo.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  23. #53
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    I've driven an ls powered patrol and its shit. There is a reason ppl sell them once is done. It sounds like a good idea but it isnt. I'd be sticking to nissan 4wd engines instead.

    Try drive one. Be a tyre kicker go find someone selling one and see for yourself.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by vet 180 View Post
    Does the ZF bolt up to the transfer easy? Is quick google doesnít show any ZF to transfer adapters. If it does it is the way to go imo.


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    Killa kustom kables and conversions on facebook does ZF-patrol tfc adapters iirc
    Quote Originally Posted by Rdyno
    70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripper
    Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

  25. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAZ914 View Post
    Leaning towards sticking in an LS1 with the existing auto as the best bang for buck 'fix'
    LS engines in big 4WD's are not bang for buck, people shit on the Nissan and Toyota petrol engines for being heavy on fuel but unless you specifically need a lot of power fitting a LS1 into a Patrol is a really excellent way to piss money up the wall if you actually drive the thing regularly. Think of the TB48 as a LS1 that makes a bit less power, uses less fuel and is arguably more reliable in its OEM fitted form.

    A ZD30 with new Nissan pistons that runs correctly (clean AFM, manifold not clogged with EGR soot, manual boost limiter, glow plugs fitted to a switch) will easily go 300,000km, fuck, probably quite a few people made that on stock engines back in the day. They are a shit engine but its not like you get 15,000kms out of them and they blow up, if you built another ZD30 and got 200,000km out of the thing then who cares, they are good on fuel compared to any other engine in a Patrol.
    Last edited by dnegative; 01-01-19 at 11:26 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by cracka View Post
    Fuck I'm retarded

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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    https://youtu.be/A4lY2j1zD5Q

    Thrashing around the street like a fuckwit and some highway running gets me 25 per 100 on 35s and lift. ZD was around 15 for the same.


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    Outstanding
    Retard Honour Wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sloth View Post
    Rob Sloth Young did i ask for your opinion? no. i only want it for a paddock bomb. go play with traffic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles View Post
    you stupid fucken imbicle.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fondles
    your are a fucken idiot of the highest level.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MRMOPARMAN View Post
    Killa kustom kables and conversions on facebook does ZF-patrol tfc adapters iirc
    For me this is the way forward. I know you need to match the auto computer to the auto and all that, but 4.17 first gear through an auto, big displacement low end turbo torque, a very easy 300rwkws, strong transmission for sub 300rwkws, and overall a package that will work very well with weight.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuperHoon View Post
    A smarter human would sell their running zd and get a tb48.

    I was going to but couldnít find a series 3 manual that hadnít been sunk in the beach. After series 3 they didnít have a sub tank I think in the tb48.


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    This is where my mind lies too. The series 4 had a subtank on the tb48. It was at some point after that they were removed, about the same time as they went to double the o2 sensors. I just am yet to believe that any engine conversion is as reliable as anything stock that Nissan can do, over a decade of proven Tb48 reliability seems a positive in my opinion over adapters and pieces from any manufacturer. I have seen people fuck up TB45 to TD42 swaps with dodgy shit, and this is about as easy as a swap gets.

    'Mate' of mine had a LS in a patrol, goes up a decent hill and it starts to knock its tits off. Actual cause im unaware off, but I can guarantee you that a TB will never do that. (Likely a shit sump or oil setup in this case, but these are the issues that just shouldn't exist).

    All that said, I hate to be that guy who talks down custom shit, hell this is PF, not caravanwankers.com. I just guess my opinion of 4wding now days is going away and not having vehicle issues (ironically im normally sorting out other vehicles on the trips with real annoying reliability shit (often Toyotas)). Im kind of over the engine tinkering for offroad, I leave that to more street going vehicles.

  29. #59
    Desert Nigga vet 180's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ar3nbe View Post
    This is where my mind lies too. The series 4 had a subtank on the tb48. It was at some point after that they were removed, about the same time as they went to double the o2 sensors. I just am yet to believe that any engine conversion is as reliable as anything stock that Nissan can do, over a decade of proven Tb48 reliability seems a positive in my opinion over adapters and pieces from any manufacturer. I have seen people fuck up TB45 to TD42 swaps with dodgy shit, and this is about as easy as a swap gets.

    'Mate' of mine had a LS in a patrol, goes up a decent hill and it starts to knock its tits off. Actual cause im unaware off, but I can guarantee you that a TB will never do that. (Likely a shit sump or oil setup in this case, but these are the issues that just shouldn't exist).

    All that said, I hate to be that guy who talks down custom shit, hell this is PF, not caravanwankers.com. I just guess my opinion of 4wding now days is going away and not having vehicle issues (ironically im normally sorting out other vehicles on the trips with real annoying reliability shit (often Toyotas)). Im kind of over the engine tinkering for offroad, I leave that to more street going vehicles.
    Well there is a lot more load on it. There is a reason that GM used detuned iron block LSís in their trucks...

    I guess itís the old 300zx argument, apparently bulletproof engines with bad packaging that leads to unreliability issues. If an oem can get it wrong fred in the shed sure as hell can. By running the TB48 you can use all stock parts in stock application.

    In saying that I still vote barra and ZF 6 speed. Torquey engine that can move other big heavy SUVís, great gear ratios for on an off-road, and cheap buy on price, parts abundant everywhere and generally bulletproof engines.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Babalouie View Post
    Geez we're a bunch of softcocks...we have a 911 and we're obsessing over non-functional ducts and indicator colours

  30. #60
    Registered User JZK25's Avatar
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    Which engine is the best conversion for a patrol is a question that will be answered differently every week depending on the fashion.

    Barra is the current fashion but if it's not an FG engine with a ZF then fuck that. That's a 15k diy conversion easy.

    LS1 is $1000 from Caboolture gumtree, that's why dudes with old shit GU's and GQ's use them, that and they sound obnoxious and that is a serious consideration for a deadshit in an old patrol.

    Bigger LS engines are for the same dudes but they have a mines job.

    You'd have to be pretty special to find value in fitting a TB48 to a patrol that wasn't built with it already fitted. Just buy a factory fitted car.

    TD42 is a no brainer, just don't expect it to be fast, reliable, economical and not to overheat.

    Duramax and Allison is amazing but the conversion market is filled with thieves that vapourise with peoples money and there are many significant issues with the fitment that noone has been able to iron out. Also costs $50k. I hope to revisit it one day with hindsight and experience on my side.

    Cummins 6BT/ISB is a newish option, $25k conversion using a 500k mile old Ram engine though which takes the shine off a bit. Factory manual, RE4 auto or 47RH/E are current trans options. The std manual is the only option that represents value but will be marginal behind a healthy 6BT/ISB5.9.

    Cummins ISDE4.4 is also new. 4.5l bus/tractor/industrial commonrail engine. 200hp, fair amount of torque, insane money for a bus engine. Something like $36k DIDO using your original manual trans. FUCK. THAT.
    David Fraser - Automotive Historian!

    Quote Originally Posted by bigmuz View Post
    You can't polish a turd but you can put 600hp in it and laugh your fucking arse off coming past someone sideways at Powercruise.

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