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Thread: Porsche 996 cup car

  1. #31
    Chairbourn ranger! Mike Lowrrryyy's Avatar
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    Nice one. Iíve been offered a very desirable 1 owner 996 Cup Car in a deal for my 934. As tempted as I am I just wouldnít get the use out of it.

    Iíll just live vicariously through you lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by S View Post
    I just want to apologise for some of my shit talking back around page 5.

  2. #32
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Thanks everyone.

    I left the ďstoryĒ at around May 2018 when the car popped itís 4th successive coolant hose on its first outing at the recently opened Bend Motosport Park. At the time I had paid entry into round 2 of the SA State Champs where I would be racing in Sports Cars against a few friends with cup cars. Had even booked the track side hotel for two nights. At the end of that track day, I decided to withdraw from the race meet. About half of the coolant hoses were on back order and there was no way the car would be ready in time for the race meet which was happening 2 weeks later. Plus I strongly felt I was not ready to make a racing debut and I was not at all confident that the car was done being shaken down - I had barely turned a lap on full tilt!

    A month later, the radiator hoses had been swapped with new ones. About 20 hours of labour were required as there are loads of them, and thankfully Buiks were able to do them all with the engine in the car which I was very thankful for. Just as they were about to put the front bar on to complete the job, there was one last check for any leaks and the center radiator (these cars have three) burst and started pissing coolant out of the middle of the core. Fuckní. At this point I was starting to wonder if the car had a lifted head gasket or something and although the compression test during the PPI had been very strong, I wanted a leak down test carried out just for my own piece of mind. Buiks explained that if there was a BHG it would be pushing water out of the overflow (which it wasnít), but I got them to go ahead with the leak down anyway...the results of which were fine. Cup cars are usually just run on water and a 1% additive, a recipe that tends to eat radiators and hoses over long periods of time. Our conclusion was that all of these cooling system failures were most likely down to the car not having been run properly for such a length of time, and that the car just needed to continue to be run in order to see the issues through. A new centre radiator was fitted, coolant flushed again (third time) and the car was brought home.

    5 months passed before I had the opportunity to take the car out again. Normal life events and having a young family meant that this shakedown process had been drawn way out. I needed to at least run the car once more to be confident that it would be to be ok for the Adelaide Motorsport Festival due to be held on the first weekend of December. It was back to The Bend for one of their public track days.

    A quick pre-track day check over...


    All loaded up ready to leave for the bend. I had this trailer custom built with the axles set back to be able to tow the rear engined Porsche comfortably. Itís got a manual tilt and long ramps for easy loading and Iím pretty happy with it, except the paint looks like shit after 8 months and the guy who built it wonít fix it unless I bring it back to Melbourne. Not pleased.


    In the paddock at The Bend, car unloaded and ready to go. One thing I never new with slicks...itís not a good idea to trailer the car with tyres you intend on running out on track, as they flat spot very quickly. I was also told slicks donít need balancing. Wrong. I spent my first two track days just about rattling the teeth out of my head due to tyre vibration because the wheels werenít balanced. I wonít make that mistake again.


    Once out on track, I was disappointed to see the coolant light again start flashing after one hot lap. The light flashes once the coolant level drops to a certain level. So, whilst we werenít suffering catastrophic coolant hose failure like before, there still seemed to be a small leak from somewhere. I pulled in after three laps to avoid overheating and found the passenger side front wheel to be dirtier dirtier than the rest with a spray pattern down the side skirt.



    Quite frustrated, but not entirely shocked, I pulled the front wheel liner out to reveal a small collection of fluid at the bottom of the LHS radiator. The source of the leak could not be visibly seen but the core stank and was pretty dirty looking. Car on the trailer, day done. I was glad I had at least run the car and found what I had hoped to be the final cooling system issue then and there, rather than it potentially ruin my Adelaide Motorsport Festival, a great event that I didnít want to miss.

    A little highlight of the day was dragging this new Mustang down the straight. Old mate was blocking people all day so I chose to stay well away from him in the braking zone in case he tried something stupid. As a result I almost dropped it into T1 due to the narrow entry.



    Pic from afar, but it illustrates how wide the bitumen is at The Bend. Pretty luxurious compared to Mallala.


    Once back from the track day, I set about swapping the broken radiator with a new item. A pretty easy job, about 2.5 hours all up including removing the front bumper. By now the only parts of the cooling system that werenít brand new were the right radiator and gearbox cooler. Surely that would be enough!




    The car then went back to the shop where I had them flush the cooling system one more time and also bleed it (a real bitch to do unless you know what youíre doing), along with an oil and filter change in prep for AMF.



    Also before AMF, there were a couple of little jobs I wanted to take care of. Job no. 1 was to clean the BMC oil filter. The filter had lost its trademark pink hue and I figured it was probably clogged with coolant residue from all of the hose failures, so I purchased a refresh kit. Upon pulling the filter off, I discovered that 16 years and many heat cycles had caused the silicone joiner to crack and crumble. Someone had tried taping the coupler back together with race tape. I didnít want any of it in my engine and the filter was pretty ratty looking anyway so I ordered a new one from Europe. Luckily the part was still available new.



    Job 2 was to have the carbon heat shield repaired. It had been cracked on both sides, probably from rear end contact in a race (the shroud seals firmly against the engine lid). More race tape was used here and well, Iím a bit fussy so I wanted it put right. I left the part with CL Composites here in Adelaide. Carlo is from Italy and worked at the Ferrari F1 team back in the day. He also happened to work for Greg Murphy Racing in 2003, Ď04 & Ď05 when they ran the 996ís so he worked on my car in its hey day. We had a good chat about the cars and he was able to tell me more about its history which was awesome for a nerd like me.





    All looking much tidier with the new filter and repaired shroud in place, complete with Clark rubber edging seal. More than just foam and rubber.


    Job 3/3 was to have a go at improving the gear shifter. When I got the car the gearknob (which is the same as the street car, only without the boot) was broken, causing it to flex in your hand when you change gear. Not ideal, especially when youíre already not used to shifting with your right hand. Further more, the factory cup shifter bushes are known for wearing out in short order resulting in play fore and aft and side to side. Given the race clutch doesnít allow for gingerly (slow) gear shifts, itís useful to have some precision in the shifter. The worn bushes make effective gear changes difficult to achieve. The cup version is identical to the street version, except it has uprated steel bushes instead of plastic. The cup shifter is classified as NLA (no longer available) and the shifter fetches big $ used. I happened to have an aftermarket shifter bushing kit lying around that I never got around to fitting to my road GT3 before I sold it, but did not want to tear apart the unicorn cup shifter. Instead, I bought a used, bog standard Carrera shifter from the states for $100 delivered and fit the upgraded bushings to it. I now had an upgraded shifter with much more robust bushings that had no play and stuck the unicorn on the shelf.

    I didnít take any pics of the process but note the huge bushes at either end of the shifter mechanism and the steel shifter yoke. A nice bloke from Ohio also sent me his used street car gear knob for free, which I trimmed to fit, as the cup one is also NLA.



    My two year old is obsessed with the ďblue porf yace carĒ and wants to get involved whenever Iím working on it.
    Last edited by spiller; 15-01-19 at 11:22 PM.

  3. #33
    Registered User FLI355's Avatar
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    I probably shouldn't be surprised but I am at how clean the donk is.
    CAD Automotive Paint Correction

  4. #34
    Gimme six Schlitzes Beavis's Avatar
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    997 shifter should fit a 996 and the shift is way better...

  5. #35
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    This is awesome and good write up, I wondered what one of these is like to actually own.
    Gives me bad thoughts.

  6. #36
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FLI355 View Post
    I probably shouldn't be surprised but I am at how clean the donk is.
    The car has 11,000 kms but I too expected the bay to be a bit grimier when I got the it. It was pretty clean but I have since given it a pressure wash - easy engine to clean as there isnít much in the way of intake and emissions crap.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beavis View Post
    997 shifter should fit a 996 and the shift is way better...
    997.1 is plastic junk like most 996. 997.2 has the steel bushes and slightly shorter throw but I prefer the longer throw of the cup shifter. Feels a bit more natural. Plus this shift kit was cheaper than a new 997 shifter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nugs View Post
    This is awesome and good write up, I wondered what one of these is like to actually own.
    Gives me bad thoughts.
    Thanks. At some stage Iíll do a video showing some of the intricacies of the car and also the equipment needed to run it.
    Last edited by spiller; 16-01-19 at 09:40 AM.

  7. #37
    bitch lasagne Bob Vegana.'s Avatar
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    Might be worth investing in a set of travel wheels and tyres, so as to avoid flat-spotting the slicks.
    Quote Originally Posted by brewdles View Post
    In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

  8. #38
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    ^^^ it came with 2.5 sets of wheels but I bought another set so it has the full three sets with a couple of spares

  9. #39
    SKYHI Motorsport TCR's Avatar
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    Awesome! A Cup Car is definitely at the top of the list for a dedicated track car if I had the money.

    Keep the write ups and photos coming.
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  10. #40
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    Seems like a wise purchase, nice to see the level of interchange ability between road and race car, makes maintaining it at this level more reasonable. I heartily approve of a dedicated racecar rather than a street/track day car. I simply put 4 flat patches on my trailer for the trip to and from the track and the car is stored on stands between meetings with tyres wrapped in black cling wrap from CMTP, if left for the off season I'll treat the tyres before wrapping.
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  11. #41
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiller View Post

    Gday mate, it's been a while. What is your user over there on the kraut forum ya bloody lurker! Not that I post much over there so pot calling the kettle black.

    .
    Man I can't even remember. B&E355 or B&E997? I just lurk too, and spotted the blue beast come up

    Good to have you back mate - very interested in your log and experiences with this bad boy - especially now that *knocks wood* the cooling system is sorted.

  12. #42
    Non Compos Mentos Gammaboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiller View Post
    Once back from the track day, I set about swapping the broken radiator with a new item. A pretty easy job, about 2.5 hours all up including removing the front bumper. By now the only parts of the cooling system that werenít brand new were the right radiator and gearbox cooler. Surely that would be enough!
    I would have just done the right rad while it was all apart - given that you've had 2 of the three fail....
    Gearbox cooler is a heat exchanger type is it?
    "Where can we get hold of a Vincent Black Shadow?" "Whats that?" "A fantastic bike," I said. "The new model is something like two thousand cubic inches, developing two hundred brake-horsepower at four thousand revolutions per minute on a magnesium frame with two styrofoam seats and a total curb weight of exactly two hundred pounds."

  13. #43
    Chairbourn ranger! Mike Lowrrryyy's Avatar
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    Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by S View Post
    I just want to apologise for some of my shit talking back around page 5.

  14. #44
    CNGAF rowdytoot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lowrrryyy View Post
    Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    Jim and I have had a discussion and we're pleased to advise that we are happy to use it on your behalf.

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  15. #45
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gammaboy View Post
    I would have just done the right rad while it was all apart - given that you've had 2 of the three fail....
    Gearbox cooler is a heat exchanger type is it?
    I thought about it but the right side was visibly newer looking so chanced it. The front bar is only about 45 minutes to get off so if it happens again no big deal. Yep the gearbox cooler is just a smaller version of the engine cooler. Have never heard of one failing though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lowrrryyy View Post
    Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    I know the owner of that car, he offered it to me a couple of years ago but I didn't have the cash at the time. It's mint from my understanding. What's the ask price? PM if you like.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lowrrryyy View Post
    Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    That sounds like the responsible thing to say - don't be responsible.
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  17. #47
    Registered User gmx's Avatar
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    Did lol @ "More than just foam and rubber."

    If you don't mind sharing, what was costs to replace/refresh the coolant systems hoses and rads?

  18. #48
    Registered User darkside's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mike Lowrrryyy;843081154]Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    This one at $125k does seem to make yours a relative bargain I imagine Spiller?

    http://www.my105.com/ListingDetails/...rsche/id/19575

  19. #49
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gmx View Post
    Did lol @ "More than just foam and rubber."

    If you don't mind sharing, what was costs to replace/refresh the coolant systems hoses and rads?
    From memeory it was roughly $1800-2K. I think I quoted 20 hours of labour but it was less as I had other stuff like set up and alignment on the same invoice. I reckon hoses were $700ish, the radiators are only $300ish which surprised me!

    [QUOTE=darkside;843081436]
    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Lowrrryyy View Post
    Here is a photo of your car next to the car that Iíve been offered at Bathurst. Iím tempted but just donít think Iíd get the use out of it.

    This one at $125k does seem to make yours a relative bargain I imagine Spiller?

    http://www.my105.com/ListingDetails/...rsche/id/19575
    That is a very well sorted car but yep, I like to think/hope I have a bit of value left over in mine if I need to do some bigger maintenance later on. At least thatís what Iíll tell my nopics if I still have the car when it comes time to justify an engine rebuild down the track haha.

  20. #50
    Gimme six Schlitzes Beavis's Avatar
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    I was always pleasantly surprised when I replaced bits on my 996. Parts prices weren't bad, as there was a fair amount of aftermarket competition for OEM stuff.

  21. #51
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Some stuff isnít too bad. Anything engine and driveline is usually drug money. The biggest issue with the 996 is a lot of parts are no longer available. For example cylinder heads (can use 997), uprights, tub (!), front bumper etc etc. Makes racing one door to door a bit risky.

  22. #52
    Registered User Mini_Me's Avatar
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    Really enjoyed reading this write up spiller!
    The car looks great too
    Hope you have a better run with it and the niggling issues are sorted


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  23. #53
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    ^^^ thanks mate

    Someone on another forum just tagged me in this clip of David Reynolds binning his car through the sweeper at Clipsal whilst chasing my car. First time Iíve seen TV footage of the car as there is very little old Carrera Cup stuff on YouTube. Uncle the car youíre looking at is in the same shot.



    Hmm might have to put the original colours back.

  24. #54
    Gas Turbine enthusiast da9jeff's Avatar
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    Would look awesome in the original sticker job.

    I probably stuck my head under this car in 05/06 if it ran at Bathurst. Dad and I signed up to be officials, randomly picked scrutineering not knowing what it was, ended up on Carrera cup. Learnt heaps from the tech director, short German bloke.

    I remember him checking clutch diameter/part number on one of the Bob Jane cars in park ferme, took the techs no time to pull the box back (?) for a looksie.

    /storytime

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  25. #55
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    ^^ you probably would have as it was there in 2005. One of the other cars in the team (the green/blue one) was destroyed at that event, slid on some coolant going through the chase and rolled about 11ty times through the gravel trap. Footage also on YouTube.

  26. #56
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    Talking coolant.. What is the thinking behind running 1% concentration of coolant?? I thought with an engine like that you would want all the protection you can get.
    .

  27. #57
    Registered User irsa76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spammy View Post
    Talking coolant.. What is the thinking behind running 1% concentration of coolant?? I thought with an engine like that you would want all the protection you can get.
    Coolant is more for corrosion and anti freeze rather than preventing overheating. It's also either not permitted, or strongly advised against on circuits.

  28. #58
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    Picking up where I left of with the updates on the car...

    Iím now at the end of November and ready for another Adelaide Motorsport Festival. This was the fourth consecutive year of participating in the event. Canít say enough about how good this event is. Who wouldnít have fun hooning around part of the old F1 circuit. The event is usually 4x10 minute sessions over two days and is run in a supersprint format. Not a heap of track time but they have about 50K spectators and for a pleb competitor like me itís the closest youíd get to being involved in a national type of event like Clipsal or something. Maybe not that large, but certainly a big step up
    from your typical club day. This year they added a practice day on the Friday which was for participants and crew only. This allowed an additional two sessions to get everything right before timed competition sessions would commence for the Saturday and Sunday. Just to mention a few, Dutton rocked up with two Le Mans winning Porsche 962s and the late Mark Donohueís Porsche IROC car from 1973. Probably 10 million bucks between the three cars. As usual there were a number of 80s and 90s F1 cars. On the Friday we got to see Lowndsey hanging about the tents and he seemed to love the relaxed environment with ďthe boysĒ, helping start some of the F1 cars etc. Overall, the event has a great vibe for any motorsport enthusiast and Iíd encourage anyone thinking about taking part to sign up for 2019.





    As discussed previously, up to this point I had replaced pretty much the entire cooling system and was crossing my fingers that the car would complete the event. I hadnít yet run it without niggling issues, despite three previous attempts. I was also pretty keen to see how the car would compare to my 996 GT3 road car which I ran on the same track in 2016. 2018 was Porscheís 70th Birthday and so the theme of the event was 70 Years of Porsche. They had a huge corporate section there and some collectable Porkas on display. BMW and Ferrari also had fairly large displays. There were two Porsche categories on track, one for the street cars and one for the race cars. I was in the latter.

    All stickered up for the event. I also decided to add some extra period decals (added at least 20hp) so that it didnít look so bare.




    As mentioned, I was in the Porsche race car category. My competition included a couple of 991 cups (one being a brand new 2018 spec), a bunch of 997.2 cups, a cayman GT4 Clubsport and a couple of 993 GT2 replicas which had about 450hp. I figured going into the event that I wouldnít be competitive and given itís more of an exhibition than anything, I didnít bother with fresh tyres. Up until this point I hadnít even driven the car in anger, and on a short exhibition type circuit, I concluded that fresh slicks would be a total waste. That didnít stop some of the 997 guys from purchasing new soft compound pirellis for the event! I had old Pirellis on the rear and some hankooks on the front lol.

    On the practice day, the car was idling quite roughly from the cold start prior to the first session. Occasionally on cold start the idle is a bit lumpy until it warms up but the lumpiness didnít go away this time and it sounded like it was running on 4 or 5 cylinders. Here we go. The only thing I had changed since running the car last time was a new air filter. Out I went for the first prac session...the track was horrible, there dust and shit all over it from closing the public road only an hour or so earlier. The car was shit too. There was an engine hesitation right through the middle of the rev range in every gear, throughout the entire session. At least the engine temps were fine and no coolant lights came on. At the completion of the session I was pretty gutted, thinking I was probably going to miss out on the entire event ahead. I also noticed there was still a little evidence of some type of fluid collecting on the front left wheel. More fucking coolant? Oddly, when checking inside the wheel well, there were no traces to be seen. Buiks were there supporting the new Brabham car (fucking awesome thing btw) and reluctantly (as I didnít want to bother them), I ducked over there to ask if they could at least quickly lay eyes on the car to see if I could do anything. After a quick check, the consensus was that if it was a coolant leak there would be likely be large quantities of coolant to be seen, and the gauge would be flashing, so to continue running the car and keep an eye on things. As for the misfire, the plugs and coils had been examined mere kms earlier when they did the leak down test and all was OK on that front. It couldíve obviously be a multitude of other things, dirty fuel filter, wiring issue etc etc. At this point I was 7 months into owning a car that had not yet run right and I had a bit of a sick, sinking feeling in my guts. I didnít have any choice but to run the car and see what would eventuate, which is what I did.

    Then, in the second session, hoo-fucking-ray!! The misfire magically disappeared and the car ran flawlessly! I was able to slide the car around close to the limit and get through the entire session. As I came back into the pits I was so elated that I yelled out a big woohoo whilst slapped the dash board repeatedly, as if me and the car were best buddies! Classic love-hate relationship. Anyone who saw me probably thought I was a bit weird. For the first time since owning the car, I finally felt like I could go into the timed sessions with a bit of confidence and actually focus on driving the car rather than looking at gauges.

    It all came together in the second timed session on the Saturday. I had an awesome 10 minute battle with a Cayman GT4 Clubsport. The two cars are similarly matched with near enough HP and torque figures but the cayman has much better brakes (same as 991 cup) and a PDK transmission, plus traction control etc. Itís aimed at gentleman drivers. I would pull away from him on the straight with my slightly better power-to-weight ratio and he would come back at me through the tight sections with his better brakes and fresh slicks. To my delight, I was able to stay ahead of him. After the session I checked the timing to see that I had come in 5th place, just behind a couple of 991 cups, but suprisigly ahead of a number of the 997.2 guys who had shelled out for new soft slicks.



    Hereís in the in car from the session.


    Session 2 was definitely the highlight of the event for me as after that, the rear tyres really started to go away and it was impossible to keep up with the other higher hp cars with their shorter gearing. I eventually finished the event plumb last in category, but I hit a PB for the track and was only half a second or so off the 997.2s in what was a very quick category with little gap between fastest and slowest. I was very pleased. Most pleasing of all, was that I finally got to drive the car close to the limit, and not counting the first practice session, was able to complete the event without any issues. Initiation and shakedown perhaps complete!

    My best time of the event was a 51.3. I think with some fresher tyres to get better drive off the painfully slow corners at the back of the circuit, thereís a low 50 in it. Interestingly, my best time in the road car in 2016 was a 51.6 which was set on brand new soft compound A050s. This had me scratching my head a bit as despite the cup car being quite similar to the road car, even on old slicks I would have expected a slightly bigger gap. Until I went back and watched the YouTube from 2016 (video in next post)

  29. #59
    Registered User spiller's Avatar
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    You may recall earlier where I said the road car had much shorter gearing the cup car. Well, I didnít actually realise this until I had watched the in-car videos of the two cars back to back. In the video from 2016, you can clearly see the road car shifts into 2nd, 3rd and 4th gears significantly earlier than the cup car. On an unusually tight track like the one run at AMF, this would account for a substantial time difference (I reckon a least 1 second saved). Not favorable for the cup car which likes to be in the 6-8k rpm range at all times. By comparison, it seems to take an eternity to wind up off the slow corners. I reckon it could benefit from slightly shorter gearing but itís not something Iíll bother with. Porsche set them up this way to be able to run pretty much anywhere without a gear change, but no question that theyíre best suited to flowing European style tracks. On a track like Mallala where it can stretch its legs a bit more, the cup should be 3-4 seconds a lap better on a good day. My PB in the GT3 at Mallala was 1:15 flat. Pro drivers have done 1:09 there in 996 cups. I have yet to run my cup there but would be happy to get into the 12s.

    Some pics of the Adelaide Motorsport Festival






    As it stands, there is a small list of things Iíd like to do to the car in 2019:

    -replace fuel filter
    -replace faulty engine oil pressure sensor (current one is reading max at all times).
    -run the car on the dyno to check hp figures (just for the sake of curiosity)
    -put the original Glenfords livery back on (yet to determine whether ill paint the colours or use vinyl for all of it)
    -replace the lexan windows

    I probably wonít get many opportunities to drive it in the first half of the year as we are capping off a big house renovation but will see if I can squeeze a sprint or two in.

    Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by spiller; 19-01-19 at 07:28 PM.

  30. #60
    Registered User BLO 767's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by spiller View Post
    As I came back into the pits I was so elated that I yelled out a big woohoo whilst slapped the dash board repeatedly, as if me and the car were best buddies! Classic love-hate relationship. Anyone who saw me probably thought I was a bit weird.
    That is literally, the fucking best I can feel the adulation.

    Being a cold start lumpiness, does it have some sort of oil pressure or coolant temp trickery that won't let you get up it until those values are satisfied?

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