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Thread: Canadian Grand Prix

  1. #61
    The royal penis is clean tremolo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 36 View Post
    He certainly didn't appear to attempt to not impede Hamilton
    I'm no big city race car driver but I believe that in the Formula 1 driver's book of "things I currently give a fuck about", Not Crashing Into The Wall is listed before Impeding Lewis Hamilton.

    He was busy keeping the thing out of the wall. He did not have the capacity to avoid impeding Hamilton. He didn't rejoin the track so much as skate across the grass (because they were racing, which is what we want them to do). So, what is the point of giving someone a penalty for something they didn't have the ability to influence?

    We want them to race, then they get penalised when they push. It's nonsense.

  2. #62
    The royal penis is clean tremolo's Avatar
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    Also, here's Lewis Hamilton dangerously rejoining the circuit and impeding Ricciardo. No penalty.

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  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    Also, here's Lewis Hamilton dangerously rejoining the circuit and impeding Ricciardo. No penalty.

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    Drive through for attempting to pass Lewis.
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  4. #64
    The royal penis is clean tremolo's Avatar
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    tbh Hamilton should get a 2 race ban for driving at Vettel and trying to ram him off the road. If he had have taken evasive action it would have been a lot safer and he would have made up a place.

  5. #65
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    I just find it a bit weird that you see the bloke in first place have an off on a tight section of the track and you don't take either an evasive measure a little earlier rather than sticking to the racing line, or realise there's a decent chance you could capitalise, back off a bit earlier and get yourself a better corner exit. If Vet had've had any more speed going through there, he'd have tagged the wall and fucked both of their races.
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  6. #66
    Registered User MWP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tremolo View Post
    He was busy keeping the thing out of the wall. He did not have the capacity to avoid impeding Hamilton. He didn't rejoin the track so much as skate across the grass (because they were racing, which is what we want them to do). So, what is the point of giving someone a penalty for something they didn't have the ability to influence?
    You're missing the point... as are many others. What he had to do to recover really doesn't matter.
    Seb made the mistake in the first place. He fucked up and went onto the grass & cut the corner. With Hamilton so close behind, he should have dropped a position because of it.

    The actual rule they chose to penalise him for IMHO is wrong. It's the wrong use for that rule, and sets a bad precedent.
    But Seb absolutely should have lost 1st place for that mistake.
    Last edited by MWP; 10-06-19 at 05:03 PM.

  7. #67
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    Bullshit penalty overshadowing some good racing IMHO.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWP View Post
    You're missing the point... as are many others. What he had to do to recover really doesn't matter.
    Seb made the mistake in the first place. He fucked up and went onto the grass & cut the corner. With Hamilton so close behind, he should have dropped a position because of it.

    The actual rule they chose to penalise him for IMHO is wrong. It's the wrong use for that rule, and sets a bad precedent.
    But Seb absolutely should have lost 1st place for that mistake.
    Should hamilton have lost a place for this effort, got no penalty. Definitely gained a significant advantage from cutting the track.

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  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWP View Post
    You're missing the point... as are many others. What he had to do to recover really doesn't matter.
    Seb made the mistake in the first place. He fucked up and went onto the grass & cut the corner. With Hamilton so close behind, he should have dropped a position because of it.

    The actual rule they chose to penalise him for IMHO is wrong. It's the wrong use for that rule, and sets a bad precedent.
    But Seb absolutely should have lost 1st place for that mistake.
    Thing is if there was no wall there and Hamilton went around him off track Hamilton would get the penalty for gaining an advantage off the track. Remember Seb was well ahead of Lewis when he rejoined, the problem was he rejoined slowly do to loosing a bit of speed on the grass and trying to keep it off the wall and Hamilton thought he could have a crack, you clearly see Hamilton pick up the throttle after the corner exit where he is behind Vettel after vettel rejoined. He couldnít get the move done so his teamed bitches to the stewards. Hamilton sees it as points against his main competitor Bottas so will gladly take it while consoling Seb.

    He didnít rejoin the track in an unsafe manner imo, but it looked worse as Hamilton picked up the throttle to go for an overtake after he joined. Seb didnít gain an advantage as he was was clearly in the lead when he went off and rejoined the track.


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  10. #70
    What's that whooshing? Aaron's Avatar
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    Rules are rules, so as much as I donít think itís right itís the stewards call.

    However I do question Lewis deliberately driving towards under power a relatively out of control car where thereís close walls.

    If it didnít hook up it was going into the wall and Lewis, all because Lewis was behaving counter to intuition which would be lift of and see the inside line open up and take that.
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  11. #71
    Registered User MWP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rona View Post
    Should hamilton have lost a place for this effort, got no penalty. Definitely gained a significant advantage from cutting the track.
    Yeah, he should have.

  12. #72
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    F**k me that was awful. Those officials should be fired immediately (and then hung, drawn and quartered).

  13. #73
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    My thought is pretty much what Brundle said, the rule is there to stop people who have had a spin rejoining the track in an unsafe manner to avoid losing more spots.

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    Meh! It is what it is .....

    Lewis at least was wise enough to brake and get out of Vettel's way, Max would have argued the toss and they both would have ended up in the wall....

    Perhaps Vettel should be glad he got away with it unscathed and picked up points for 2nd, he isn't going to be in contention for 1st or 2nd in the WDC this year anyway, best he make sure he is ahead of Max.
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  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roy928tt View Post
    Meh! It is what it is .....

    Lewis at least was wise enough to brake and get out of Vettel's way, Max would have argued the toss and they both would have ended up in the wall....

    Perhaps Vettel should be glad he got away with it unscathed and picked up points for 2nd, he isn't going to be in contention for 1st or 2nd in the WDC this year anyway, best he make sure he is ahead of Max.
    He will be. So will Leclerc. Gasly will finish behind him with Dan behind Gasly.


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  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWP View Post
    You're missing the point... as are many others. What he had to do to recover really doesn't matter.
    Seb made the mistake in the first place. He fucked up and went onto the grass & cut the corner. With Hamilton so close behind, he should have dropped a position because of it.

    The actual rule they chose to penalise him for IMHO is wrong. It's the wrong use for that rule, and sets a bad precedent.
    But Seb absolutely should have lost 1st place for that mistake.
    Ah, so what you're actually saying is not that he rejoined dangerously but that he gained an advantage from his excursion. I agree with that, but it's not what he was penalised for.

  17. #77
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    nah certainly didn't gain an advantage from "cutting the corner'. He lost all his pace and the gap he had to 2nd place. He lost his advantage by having that out of control moment. The opposite of gaining an advantage. He probably should have dropped a position from it, but Hamilton was too dumb to get past him even when he'd lost all his speed.

    Quote Originally Posted by 36 View Post
    Penalty was there.

    Ran off track.

    Another driver had to brake to avoid contact.

    Clear cut.

    Was there anything Vettel could have done? Maybe, maybe not. Doesn't matter. He certainly didn't appear to attempt to not impede Hamilton

    Whether he was in control or not doesn't matter.
    Yes it does - if you go spinning back onto the track and another car has to brake to avoid you, you don't get penalised for an unsafe re-entry. This is no different - the car was still having it's moment when it came back on the track, still sliding and oppy-locking to gather it up. There wasn't anything else he really could have done. An unsafe re-entry is for when drivers decide to come back on the track with no regard for other cars.

    Hamilton on the other hand, should have slowed earlier when the incident was occurring and then could have blasted past on the inside exiting the chicane or up that straight - Vettel was never going to get a good exit... Should have been easy pickings for the best driver in the world. Instead he chose to pretend nothing was happening ahead and almost tripped over the car that was having a moment as it slid back onto the track in it's natural trajectory.
    Last edited by hrd; 11-06-19 at 08:38 AM.

  18. #78
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    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

    The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.

    Still don't think I'd have penalised him - heat of the moment.
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  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by MWP View Post
    Yeah, he should have.
    Sure - give him 5 seconds like the precedent is - he would have still won the race.
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  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrd View Post
    nah certainly didn't gain an advantage from "cutting the corner'. He lost all his pace and the gap he had to 2nd place. He lost his advantage by having that out of control moment. The opposite of gaining an advantage. He probably should have dropped a position from it, but Hamilton was too dumb to get past him even when he'd lost all his speed.
    Not losing a place is still considered gaining an advantage, as we regularly see from the orders to drop a spot at the Nouvelle Chicane.

    Overall I think it should have been chalked up as a racing incident, and what is more I reckon that if Hamilton hadnt tried for a lunge down the outside he would have been in a prime position to take him down the straight to the T10 chicane, and sealed it on track.
    Last edited by takai; 11-06-19 at 09:29 AM.
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  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

    The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.

    Still don't think I'd have penalised him - heat of the moment.
    Thats the bit I noticed and assumed thats why he got the penalty.

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  22. #82
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    It has nothing to do with gaining an advantage, it's all about safely re entering the track after going off.

    Seb made the mistake, and the onus is on him to safely re enter the track. Hamilton had every right to stay on the racing line, at race speed, and not be impeded by Seb re entering the track. It was a tough call and could have gone either way in my opinion, but the stewards clearly believe that Seb could have done more to make a safer re-entry, and not impede and/or endanger Hamilton in doing so.

    I definitely believe that Seb knew exactly where Hamilton was at all times.
    Last edited by TCR; 11-06-19 at 10:10 AM.
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  23. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJ View Post
    https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14...nalty-decision

    The call was made based on the fact they could see once he had gathered it up that looked in the mirror and turned right.
    That makes the decision worse IMO. You can't penalise someone for an unsafe re-entry then say it's for what they feel was a defensive move made after rejoining. They're just trying to justify a bad decision.
    Particularly when that RH steering input is a correction to wheel spin getting back on the throttle on dirty tyres. I don't see a look in the mirror till way after that steering input

  24. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by hrd View Post
    That makes the decision worse IMO. You can't penalise someone for an unsafe re-entry then say it's for what they feel was a defensive move made after rejoining. They're just trying to justify a bad decision.
    Particularly when that RH steering input is a correction to wheel spin getting back on the throttle on dirty tyres. I don't see a look in the mirror till way after that steering input
    And the article states the stewards had another camera angle to help them decide.
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  25. #85
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    https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/48583803

    It's funny how people bring up old videos but forget Max's penalty just 11 races ago.
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  26. #86
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    you should explain to Mario Andretti, Nigel Mansel, Alex Wurz, Mark Webber, Allan McNish etc how they're all wrong.

  27. #87
    Registered User hrd's Avatar
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    Max/Kimi incident in Japan was nothing like it. At no time was Max's car the slightest bit out of shape. He was in full control of where the car was going at all times there after the inital outbraking took him wide. He wasn't fighting for control of the car as it came back on the track. And Kimi was full alongside before he re-entered the track - before the 2nd part of the chicane in fact. Nothing like the same.
    Last edited by hrd; 11-06-19 at 11:05 AM.

  28. #88
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    drivers disagreeing with the stewards......

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  29. #89
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    That was a farce. Vettel did all he could just to keep the thing out of the barriers. The rejoining the track rule also includes the phrase "deliberate". You need to be deliberately unsafe in the way you rejoin the track, otherwise someone could spin off across a chicane or something and be penalised for "rejoining in an unsafe manner" even though all he did was have the misfortune to lose control... that's fucking stupid of course, and so that is why the rules say it needs to be a deliberately unsafe rejoining of the track. I didnt see him mashing the throttle across the grass or turning towards the wall to block hamilton. Verstappen deliberately crowded raikkonen out when he lost it in Austin. That's why he was penalised

    So if he didnt deliberately join in an unsafe manner, and he didnt cut and gain an advantage (clearly so). Then what did he do?

    Maybe the stewards applied the rules to the letter in terms of talking about looking at mirrors and shit, but clearly the incident weas made to fit the letter of the rule, instead of looking at the incident and deciding whether it breached the spirit of the rule.

    I think vettel is a flog and I am still backing him here. He was robbed by an overzealous and over bureaucratic stewards panel. They say they want to let drivers race and this and that malarkey but actions speak louder than words. More than once this season they have handed out penalties in 50/50 situations where they could have easily let it go... They haven't changed at all
    Last edited by trdee; 11-06-19 at 11:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by trdee View Post
    I think vettel is a flog and I am still backing him here. He was robbed by an overzealous and over bureaucratic stewards panel. They say they want to let drivers race and this and that malarkey but actions speak louder than words. More than once this season they have handed out penalties in 50/50 situations where they could have easily let it go... They haven't changed at all
    IMO the stewards have gotten worse this year. Last year they let a lot of stuff slide, but this year it seems stuff that you would just call a racing incident is getting penalised.

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