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Thread: K series Honda triggering angles

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post
    if your piggy baking you do not need pullups.. as the pullups in the stock ecu supply the power..
    Yeah but my issue is as soon as I connected the adaptronic it pulls the voltages of the signals down to around 3.3v and wonít read rpm in the adaptronic at all, which I put down to it being floating .

    I need to pull the voltages back up, so I though a pull-up from 12v to the signal wires might help it back up again???


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  2. #32
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    just so happened that andy called me about some other stuff so ran this past him, the adaptronic pulls up to 3.3 volts, that's why you have 3.3 volts, does the trigger light stay lit or is it out when the sensor is connected?
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  3. #33
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    Reg green orange are all on.

    Hereís what Iím combatting . Adaptronic Ecu reads zero rpm once connected .

    Stock ecu reads 7.3v crank and 4.1v cam by itself .


    As soon as I connect the adaptronic even just the triggers it goes to this


    Then when I plug in the power to the adaptronic it goes to this


    I believe this to be my 0rpm issue, or atleast a start but fucked if I know how to get around it.



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  4. #34
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    I have a case with adaptronic but they stopped answering a week or so ago, most likely cos my ecu is probably older than the tech guy himself


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  5. #35
    sack riding 10sec rx7's Avatar
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    if you remove the stock ecu does it work?
    what does the voltage drop to when using the stock ecu? those scope traces are a pain with out knowing what the voltage divisions etc are
    im a cunt
    and apparently i dont know shit...

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post
    if you remove the stock ecu does it work?
    what does the voltage drop to when using the stock ecu? those scope traces are a pain with out knowing what the voltage divisions etc are
    Thatís all above .
    Stock ecu is 7.1-7.3V crank signal
    As soon as itís piggybacked it goes to 2.7v and also runs weak and has check engine light also backing up the fact the stock ecu is going below its voltage limits .

    The scope divisions are in the pics , 5v,20ms or 10ms divisions .


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  7. #37
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    I get it that it is 7.1-7.3 at the top.. what is it at the bottom? zero? if so then just need to work out how to disable the pull ups in the adaptonic and it will work.. with out disabling them you have no chance with out fitting a second trigger and at that point its easier just to put something that you can disable the pullups and away you go
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  8. #38
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    Ok so I just added a 2.4k pull-up to the crank for shits and giggles and it now reads as higher and more stable voltage . As you can see it does not zero out though even with the ecu grounds paired .






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  9. #39
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    Added 2.4k pull-up to the cam sensors aswell. Car donít run no more so I assume itís just blown up the stock ecu.

    Iím committed now........


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  10. #40
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    Donít you use different input pins on those old things if you donít need pull-ups? Like the reluctor input instead of hall?


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    David Fraser - Automotive Historian!

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    You can't polish a turd but you can put 600hp in it and laugh your fucking arse off coming past someone sideways at Powercruise.

  11. #41
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    why are you adding resisters?? both ecu's already have them and that's your problem... adding more is just fucking it more...

    you need to REMOVE one set of resisters,
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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by JZK25 View Post
    Donít you use different input pins on those old things if you donít need pull-ups? Like the reluctor input instead of hall?


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    That does ring a bell but itís been over 10 years since I touched one
    im a cunt
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  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post
    why are you adding resisters?? both ecu's already have them and that's your problem... adding more is just fucking it more...

    you need to REMOVE one set of resisters,
    I added independent power and pull-up resistor . It worked, it cleaned the Hall effects up and increased the voltages .

    Downside is itís seemed to have fucked the stock ecu cam signal circuit on the exhaust cam. No voltage and no signal no more . Swapped sensors from the vtec sensor which seems to be the exact same sensor and same results.


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  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by JZK25 View Post
    Donít you use different input pins on those old things if you donít need pull-ups? Like the reluctor input instead of hall?


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    This potentially valid information maybe 2hrs too late it seems .


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  15. #45
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    I would just like to add I have had run the piggy back situation etc all past adaptronic who said I had to use the hall signal pins back before I even started wiring this in.


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  16. #46
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    Ecu is alive. Found a broken wire for the tdc sensor. It runs again.




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  17. #47
    Registered User glenn's Avatar
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    I haven't read all of this but I reckon you need to either remove the pullups in the Adaptronic (if you can locate them on the board) or fuck it of and get a M1200 where you can deselect the pullups in the software.

  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10sec rx7 View Post
    That does ring a bell but itís been over 10 years since I touched one
    If you crack them open you can still find long hair strands in there from Andy making them in his lounge room.

    Great achievement for an electronics engineer but giant gap between that and a commercial enterprise like Haltech.


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    Quote Originally Posted by bigmuz View Post
    You can't polish a turd but you can put 600hp in it and laugh your fucking arse off coming past someone sideways at Powercruise.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by glenn View Post
    I haven't read all of this but I reckon you need to either remove the pullups in the Adaptronic (if you can locate them on the board) or fuck it of and get a M1200 where you can deselect the pullups in the software.
    I have no choice but to run the whole engine off this ecu. That will have to wait so I can research how the vtc etc works before I drove into wiring that.

    I was trying to do this whole job for $1500 with what I have , not $5000 so will stick to the budget and fuck the stock ecu off and deal with the consequences


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  20. #50
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    If you look at the physics of adding a pull up resistor to the circuit then it's impossible to think that is what killed it.

    12 V with a 2400 ohm resistance is 5 mA worst case and 60 mW. Even the smallest, least robust electronic component could deal with that, every day of the week.

    Good work on trying to get the best out of what you have, and learning something along the way. It's defs a mindset which provides a competitive advantage if maintained outside hobbies.
    Jason Broadhurst

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  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Broadhurst View Post
    If you look at the physics of adding a pull up resistor to the circuit then it's impossible to think that is what killed it.

    12 V with a 2400 ohm resistance is 5 mA worst case and 60 mW. Even the smallest, least robust electronic component could deal with that, every day of the week.

    Good work on trying to get the best out of what you have, and learning something along the way. It's defs a mindset which provides a competitive advantage if maintained outside hobbies.
    That was my thought, I was like wtf???
    I had already calculated the current draw and figured nothing bad could happen then it did. But in the end it was all the fucking round for 2 weeks with the cam and crank wiring that finally broke the soldered splice joint. Thank fuck.

    So I believe it will pull the voltage up enough so far but then the ground only goes down to 1.2v.

    Is it possible to pull up voltage AND pull down the same circuit to sensor zero ???


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  22. #52
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    Can you switch on/off pull-up resistor on a $200 Haltech E6X or E8? I know you can on a $500 Sprint 500.

  23. #53
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    K series Honda triggering angles

    Quote Originally Posted by crack View Post
    Can you switch on/off pull-up resistor on a $200 Haltech E6X or E8? I know you can on a $500 Sprint 500.
    Donít think so. I was looking at those on eBay last night actually .

    My concern is they only say 2 trigger inputs and I need 3 for vtc control


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    Last edited by thebluerx7; 11-07-19 at 08:32 AM.

  24. #54
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    Just found this in the e8/e11 Manual



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  25. #55
    Purist, whats that? Jason Broadhurst's Avatar
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    You need an optocoupler.

    It takes the input signal and mirrors it on an isolated output. The input is such high impedance as to not upset the signal, and the output can be pulled up to as high or low as needed.

    Let me do a falstad diagram up tonight after work.
    Jason Broadhurst

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  26. #56
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    K series Honda triggering angles

    Soooo finally got rpm to show . But it was a weird drama as below :

    Wired e420 in to run engine/vtec/vtc/idle etc by itself with stock ecu still powered up and powering a few things . Disconnected coils and injectors , removed plugs . Connected picoscope dual channel .
    Cranked and zero rpm???

    Scope at ecu - sometimes 0v , sometimes 1.6V hall signal , sometimes 3.3v e420 pull-up voltage with no signal . WTF.

    Scoped at sensors themselves and full 5v signal. Ok.


    Wire continuity 0.00ohms. Same colour wires and pin locations as diagram. No other splices or know connections in the wiring diagram or pinout diagram. Factory 12v is still in place and factory g101 engine block sensor ground for those sensors still in place .

    Removed connectors and cut signal wires and ran a big loop of plain wire outside the car, through window and into e420 trigger wires . HEY PRESTO full scope pattern!!! Cranked and showed 182rpm on gauges display. (Seems low for no plugs so I hope the triggers are actually right)

    Hoo fucking Ray !!!.


    Sunday I will go through and run all this properly and run the vtc cam sensor externally also then attempt to set base timing and hopefully thatís working correctly.




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    Last edited by thebluerx7; 19-07-19 at 06:34 AM.

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