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Porsche 996 cup car

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  • 200MPH
    replied
    Ha, wish it had that power. I'm a motor + trans build and TVS away from this figures! Pretty stock, just tweaked up about as far is semi sensible, close to 300 engine HP I'd estimate. Intake, mufffler, pulley swap Goes very well up to 4th gear, gets a bit dull in 5th. Here is standing 1km sprint, 222kmh trap speed.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EpOfhl8Ya_M

    Hopefully see you there in June then. First I gotta get car trucked to Bathurst next month, do 3 track days and 2 interstate drives. If it all goes to plan, I'll get bent in June!

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  • spiller
    replied
    Originally posted by 200MPH View Post

    Me neither! Will be last stop on a tour of bucket list eastern state tracks for me. Bathurst, SMSP, PI then Bend. Then truck car back to Perth. Should be a lot of Victorian cars there I understand. I'll be tagging along with Lotus mob on the Sunday and next day on Monday. S2 Exige S. I understand you've been there already...
    Sounds like a great trip. I had a cup 240 with a TVS blower about 5 years ago, awesome cars and loads of fun, but you don’t need me to tell you that . Now that you mention it, I remember us discussing your car briefly in a thread somewhere, 350-400hp from memory? It should eat up the bend, the stock ones struggle on the 1km straight a bit. There was a cup 240 out there on Saturday along with a couple of modded Exige V6s. I’ll keep this event in mind as June approaches.
    Last edited by spiller; 19-12-19, 07:51 AM.

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  • spiller
    replied
    Originally posted by Morgs View Post

    Mate that is awesome. You seem to drive yours about as frequently as ours.. lol

    We are still on the same rubber as that 1.59 as well. Need to get that sorted!

    I reckon you've got good pace there. Manual gear shift seems massively slow in comparison to the sequential so you've done well!!

    We're equally oversteer killdeathy... and I'm also allergic to lap traffic is that helps.... It is especially awkward when those 991 GT3 RS are equally quick in a straight line... when you need to get into the next corner and the only thing separating the two cars is braking and ego
    Yes haha 570km added time mine in 20 months. Evidently the h-pattern is a lot slower in the hands of an amateur . Back in the Carrera cup days they used to flat shift them which was 95% as quick as the sequential but not very good for longevity! I still haven’t got a good grip on the race clutch as far as timing goes, think I need to be a bit more brutal with it as it doesn’t like slow shifts.

    I have a supposedly good wheel alignment set up that a guy in the states gave me and insisted makes the car a lot less nervous and twitchy with improved tyre life that you can have if you want. I’d be interested to know what alignment specs yours has been set up to (assume PR tech did one when you prepped the car?). Those Pirelli DH are amazing for wear, I had a used set on the rear that were unknown mileage when I got them and added another 420km and probably 20 heat cycles and they were still working and had tread depth when I took them off!

    Traffic gets old very quick in one of these for sure, there’s a fun element to never being passed at track days though .

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  • 200MPH
    replied
    Originally posted by spiller View Post
    I’ve never actually done an MSCA event but they intrigue me, always get great numbers and good variety of cars which is what it’s all about. What will you be entering in? Is it a bit of a national meet?
    Me neither! Will be last stop on a tour of bucket list eastern state tracks for me. Bathurst, SMSP, PI then Bend. Then truck car back to Perth. Should be a lot of Victorian cars there I understand. I'll be tagging along with Lotus mob on the Sunday and next day on Monday. S2 Exige S. I understand you've been there already...

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  • Morgs
    replied
    Originally posted by spiller View Post
    It’s been a while since I updated this thread. The car sat idle between the Porsche Club supersprint at Mallala in Feb until October of this year so I thought it was time to drive the thing again. Going back a while, there was a suspected power delivery issue that had been plaguing the car so some testing was needed. The car was sent to a dyno for a power run which when adjusted to crank figures pulled 380 hp. New these cars were 390 so within 10 hp of factory new is acceptable to me. The curve was as you’d expect for a cup car too, no evidence of power coming in and out as was felt on the track. I decided to go back to Mallala to see if I could recreate the issue since it had been a while. Sure enough, when accelerating in gears third and fourth the car hesitated very slightly, then on certain areas of the track it wouldn’t behave the same way and I’d suddenly have full power again. Quite frustrating but it allowed me to nail down the symptoms exactly and I still had some fun throwing the car around on old rubber.

    Back to the workshop the car went to have the fuel pump pulled and inspected. Nothing obvious was found to be wrong with the pump but to eliminate it as the cause of the issue a new pump was fitted along with a wheel alignment in prep for a track day at The Bend.

    Prior to the track day I played around with the sway bar settings and checked the shock compression and rebound settings. I hadn’t run the car on new tyres before and they say not to adjust set up based on the feel of the car with old rubber but I couldn’t help myself as the car always understeered too much for my taste, most likely due to old rubber haha. I adjusted the front bar to the middle setting and left the rear on stiffest to give it a try.

    Out to The Bend for a public day on the 4.95km international layout, which is awesome. There were some cool cars there including Garry Rogers Motorsport testing the Renault TCR cars and some S5000s. James Moffat must have got the shits up with all of the traffic of a public day.






    I also bolted on some new Hankook slicks in medium. The Hankook are about the same grip as old Pirelli but at $1200 less for a set I figured why not as I’m still learning the car and dialing in a set up and saw no sense in wasting a new set of Pirelli. After my first lap it was obvious the power issue was solved. The car was easily getting into 6th on the main straight (which it had never done previously) and a check of the data afterwards showed I gained 17km/h in top speed. I reckon it was down 40-50hp before.

    My best lap was a 2:04 which I was satisfied with given all of the traffic and first time really having a good shake at the layout without worrying about coolant explosions or stuttering power delivery! To put this into perspective, the previous owner of Morgs car did a 1:59 on Pirelli. I reckon the 996 has a 2:01 in it with some good rubber, seat time and clean laps, so that’s the eventual goal. 2 min would be a dream. I was able to hang with a well driven 991.2 GT3RS so at 1/10th of the cost, I’m pretty happy.

    The first video below is one of my cleaner laps, until a couple of whoopsies at the end that ruined it all. Amateur hack being distracted by traffic is my excuse. As you can see the set up is very pointy now and doesn’t tolerate tighter lines that well, but I’d rather manage that than understeer. The front end felt perfect, but the rear a bit sketchy so I’ll have to dial the sway bar back a notch and maybe pull some camber out before I go out again. The four consecutive right handers in the middle of the lap are bliss to go through! Have also included a couple of fly bys that some friends took from pit lane.



    Mate that is awesome. You seem to drive yours about as frequently as ours.. lol

    We are still on the same rubber as that 1.59 as well. Need to get that sorted!

    I reckon you've got good pace there. Manual gear shift seems massively slow in comparison to the sequential so you've done well!!

    We're equally oversteer killdeathy... and I'm also allergic to lap traffic is that helps.... It is especially awkward when those 991 GT3 RS are equally quick in a straight line... when you need to get into the next corner and the only thing separating the two cars is braking and ego

    Leave a comment:


  • spiller
    replied
    Originally posted by 200MPH View Post
    Nice in car and sweet noises from outside. The rear is indeed a bit twitchy, but if you have rear bar set full hard youve got an obvious path to follow as you mentioned.
    I Plan ​​on getting to MSCA sprint at The Bend early June 2020. Be good to see your car in action if you enter.
    I’ve never actually done an MSCA event but they intrigue me, always get great numbers and good variety of cars which is what it’s all about. What will you be entering in? Is it a bit of a national meet?

    Leave a comment:


  • rowdytoot
    replied
    looks and sounds great. do want...

    Leave a comment:


  • 200MPH
    replied
    Nice in car and sweet noises from outside. The rear is indeed a bit twitchy, but if you have rear bar set full hard youve got an obvious path to follow as you mentioned.
    I Plan ​​on getting to MSCA sprint at The Bend early June 2020. Be good to see your car in action if you enter.
    Last edited by 200MPH; 17-12-19, 11:41 PM.

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  • Greg Rust
    replied
    Looks bliss. Nice pizzas.

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  • spiller
    replied
    It’s been a while since I updated this thread. The car sat idle between the Porsche Club supersprint at Mallala in Feb until October of this year so I thought it was time to drive the thing again. Going back a while, there was a suspected power delivery issue that had been plaguing the car so some testing was needed. The car was sent to a dyno for a power run which when adjusted to crank figures pulled 380 hp. New these cars were 390 so within 10 hp of factory new is acceptable to me. The curve was as you’d expect for a cup car too, no evidence of power coming in and out as was felt on the track. I decided to go back to Mallala to see if I could recreate the issue since it had been a while. Sure enough, when accelerating in gears third and fourth the car hesitated very slightly, then on certain areas of the track it wouldn’t behave the same way and I’d suddenly have full power again. Quite frustrating but it allowed me to nail down the symptoms exactly and I still had some fun throwing the car around on old rubber.

    Back to the workshop the car went to have the fuel pump pulled and inspected. Nothing obvious was found to be wrong with the pump but to eliminate it as the cause of the issue a new pump was fitted along with a wheel alignment in prep for a track day at The Bend.

    Prior to the track day I played around with the sway bar settings and checked the shock compression and rebound settings. I hadn’t run the car on new tyres before and they say not to adjust set up based on the feel of the car with old rubber but I couldn’t help myself as the car always understeered too much for my taste, most likely due to old rubber haha. I adjusted the front bar to the middle setting and left the rear on stiffest to give it a try.

    Out to The Bend for a public day on the 4.95km international layout, which is awesome. There were some cool cars there including Garry Rogers Motorsport testing the Renault TCR cars and some S5000s. James Moffat must have got the shits up with all of the traffic of a public day.






    I also bolted on some new Hankook slicks in medium. The Hankook are about the same grip as old Pirelli but at $1200 less for a set I figured why not as I’m still learning the car and dialing in a set up and saw no sense in wasting a new set of Pirelli. After my first lap it was obvious the power issue was solved. The car was easily getting into 6th on the main straight (which it had never done previously) and a check of the data afterwards showed I gained 17km/h in top speed. I reckon it was down 40-50hp before.

    My best lap was a 2:04 which I was satisfied with given all of the traffic and first time really having a good shake at the layout without worrying about coolant explosions or stuttering power delivery! To put this into perspective, the previous owner of Morgs car did a 1:59 on Pirelli. I reckon the 996 has a 2:01 in it with some good rubber, seat time and clean laps, so that’s the eventual goal. 2 min would be a dream. I was able to hang with a well driven 991.2 GT3RS so at 1/10th of the cost, I’m pretty happy.

    The first video below is one of my cleaner laps, until a couple of whoopsies at the end that ruined it all. Amateur hack being distracted by traffic is my excuse. As you can see the set up is very pointy now and doesn’t tolerate tighter lines that well, but I’d rather manage that than understeer. The front end felt perfect, but the rear a bit sketchy so I’ll have to dial the sway bar back a notch and maybe pull some camber out before I go out again. The four consecutive right handers in the middle of the lap are bliss to go through! Have also included a couple of fly bys that some friends took from pit lane.



    Last edited by spiller; 17-12-19, 12:10 PM.

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  • spiller
    replied
    No pinging that Iíve noticed. It occasionally misfires for a couple of minutes when cold but then smooths out and thereís only once been misfire/ignition break down when actually out on track (a couple of events ago) and it fixed itself and hasnít happened since. In retrospect, some of those 45/67% throttle measurements could have been me lifting slightly as the back straight has a kink in it, however the 67% lap was my fastest of the day and usually if you lift, itís very slight through the corner then back on the power for another 250m or so before the braking zone. The throttle data does not go back up though and drops to zero once I start down shifting. So, not a true reflection of what I was doing with the pedal. Also if the throttle was closing to save the engine, you would then think it would be opening again after 7400ish rpm when I started to feel full power come back, but the data doesnít show that. I would have thought the ECU would just pull timing if the fuel leans out as thatís a lot more aggressive and immediate protection than closing the throttle? This stuff is not my domain so Iím only guessing but itís interesting to speculate. Iím not overly worried as I reckon the car has been this way since I got it and Iíve only now driven it a couple of times without popping coolant hoses to realise that itís not right. Iíd imagine if it was dangerous to the motor it would be fucked by now as Iíve probably done 400 odd kms. The car otherwise is running well. If you hadnít driven a GT3 in anger before you probably wouldnít even notice as it still feels pretty rapid.

    The shop who works on it are running a car in Carrera Cup at the Adelaide 500 in a couple of weeks so it will go in to them after thatís finished and hopefully then weíll have a verdict.

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  • gmx
    replied
    The TPS might also be an angle measurement. A lot of Bosch/Valeo throttle bodies which I'd assume this has will read very similar (89 IIRC). Especially if it is a cable throttle. You definitely want to compare your data to others and knowledgable people.
    Is your foot flat when it drops to 45 or 67 as in thr graph etc? If these are DBW, could be an issue with the engine and the electric throttle closing the plate to save it. No obvious pinging, misfire etc? I'd get it on a dyno and have it figured out. Perhaps like you said, injectors flowed too.

    Leave a comment:


  • spiller
    replied
    Yep I reckon the 6x3 is a goer and lots of ice for cold water in future. Cool suit would be awesome but not sure I can justify the cost given only in the car for 15 mins at the time mostly. Health and shit though...

    Interesting points re: the throttle position Blake. That makes sense. Then again old data shows 101% so fuck knows! I don't really understand how the whole scaling thing in the motec relates to actual throttle position but it's going into the shop when I get a chance to check fuel pressure and throttle opening then I'll put it on the dyno.

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  • BLO 767
    replied
    She cleans up alright, for sure! Such a smart looking car in blue + white.

    It wouldn't have liked the heat either. Cool suit + dry ice and anti freeze man? I reckon it's mandatory here in Aus, esp in a full steel race car.

    I think dyno time is invaluable in a car like this. Allows you to sort out all those issues without the need to go to a track with your full setup. Then when you know it's tested and proven you can focus on tuning the setup for the day at the track.

    I'll be honest in that I'm not educated enough to comprehend the MoTeC data and like yourself, I want to sit down with my tuner and get the basics down for that same reason. But FWIW I've checked some of my Comm logs and find the same bizarreness going on incl with throttle. Apparently - and don't quote me - but some of my research lead me to an understanding that the reading can also include or exclude the throttle plate. As the throttle is not on 0% once the car is running. It could be cracked 8% on idle (manifold plate), which is set to 0% (throttle at the pedal), and then it is 'opening' 92% further at the plate, which is actually 100% at the pedal and plate. Had all manner of in-between %'s too, so I re-mapped mine dozens of times resetting it to 0% and 100%. Then I ended up reverting back to what it was originally. And it seemed to actually show 0 - 100 properly for a while, and I believe still does.
    Wouldn't it be ironic if we both just had faulty TPS'!

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  • da9jeff
    replied
    Sounds like a successful day out despite the lap time (which is still bloody quick). Definitely head to bcf and invest $200 on a 3x6 pop up shelter.

    Sent from my VS Commodore eurovox headunit using Tapatalk

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