1990 Mercedes Benz 190E 2.6 Sportline

[denmaster]

Not sure what you wanted out of it. 4cyl is gay. Six is def 2jz. V8 won't fit and u think v12 will??

[JZK25]

Toyota bellhousing, machined adaptor for T56, off the shelf single plate clutch and 1UZ flywheel.

There is a bit of a mentality that an LS1 will cost fuck all to fit(even if it did fit in the space) which is not true. You still have to buy the engine and box which will be $5k, it still needs a new clutch and shit like seals and gaskets done. It will 100% need a set of custom headers to make the power he wants.

The 1/2JZ option is a good one, we know it will fit. But it still needs $2k for engine, $1500 for an R154, $1k for a clutch, $600 for engine servicing, $3k worth of turbo, manifold and wastegate, an intercooler and plumbing.

The V12 is $2500, T56 is ~$2k, adaptor is ~$300, clutch and flywheel is $1200, exhaust would be about $1500.

I don't give a fuck what engine he wants to fit, A JZ would be the simplest but it's not what Clayto wants as he already has a turbo 6.
LS1 would have been great but if it doesn't fit in the hole there's not much you can do.
Be nice to leave him to make his own decision though.

[BMWTurbo]

What 'upgraed' options are there with the gz when the power is no longer enough? Aside from the Turbo route.

[bahaimus]

Not sure what you wanted out of it. 4cyl is gay. Six is def 2jz. V8 won't fit and u think v12 will??

I know. A cam in block narrow V8 won't fit so the solution is a quad cam V12, right? The 60 degree V makes for a narrower block on the V12 which makes the difference according to the tape measure. Length wasn't the issue.

Toyota bellhousing, machined adaptor for T56, off the shelf single plate clutch and 1UZ flywheel.

There is a bit of a mentality that an LS1 will cost fuck all to fit(even if it did fit in the space) which is not true. You still have to buy the engine and box which will be $5k, it still needs a new clutch and shit like seals and gaskets done. It will 100% need a set of custom headers to make the power he wants.

The 1/2JZ option is a good one, we know it will fit. But it still needs $2k for engine, $1500 for an R154, $1k for a clutch, $600 for engine servicing, $3k worth of turbo, manifold and wastegate, an intercooler and plumbing.

The V12 is $2500, T56 is ~$2k, adaptor is ~$300, clutch and flywheel is $1200, exhaust would be about $1500.

I don't give a fuck what engine he wants to fit, A JZ would be the simplest but it's not what Clayto wants as he already has a turbo 6.
LS1 would have been great but if it doesn't fit in the hole there's not much you can do.
Be nice to leave him to make his own decision though.

I wanted a V8, but there isn't one that will fit well (except maybe a Rover V8 and I don't hate myself that much).

To be fair, you did nudge me in the direction of the V12, by blatantly pointing me at one that is for sale cheap , but it is my own decision based upon not much sleep over the weekend reading and researching and measuring and asking questions etc. Ask Al how much I bothered him on the phone, via PMs and on Facebook LOL.

I'll admit, I'm a little surprised. I kind of figured the very idea of a modern quad cam all alloy Toyota V12 with a manual gearbox in a Merc 190e would have been a PF Poster conversion. Regardless of whether I actually went through with it. Clearly after 11 years on here, I still don't get how this place works! But my two biggest devil's advocates - my dad and my best mate at work - both agree this is an even better idea than the LS1 and I talk to them both about all of my fucking crazy ideas.

What 'upgraed' options are there with the gz when the power is no longer enough? Aside from the Turbo route.

Nil really. Just regular things like adapting ITB's, custom extractors etc. I've thought about that. I think I'll get the engine, sit in to confirm fit and then look at how much space is left to work out power adding step.

[Cal]

I wanted a V8, but there isn't one that will fit well

I missed this bit. I thought the LS1 fitted.

[The Pupat]

No spare parts, not knowledge, no gearbox / clutch options. Your back to where you were with that Merc engine.

V12 would be a shit idea Clayton.

well documented that century's (thus Toyota V12's) do head gaskets - fuck that.

VQ30/35?

I'm with these guys. Lack of off the shelf gearbox / manual trans options and therefore clutch options and (the big one) a propensity to pop head gaskets is not a good thing for any car that is going to see track car.

[TT]

Hey Al. How much did Clayton bother you via Phone, PMs and Facebook?

I think I know how this place works Clayton.. I'll describe it here..

Cracka = Single, annoying, witty, funny, annoying, has lots of mining money, is related to Az, crazy, does stupid shit.
Cracka = Hey guyz.. I'm gunna put a V12 motor and an auto in a Liberty and make it rwd and do skids
PF = YEAH!! sick.. do it man.. but you should turbo it or you're a fag
Cracka = hmm good point..
Al = *insert pic of V12 with a turbo on each side*
PF = *start rubbing themselves*


Sensei Cobra = friendly, family man, easily convinced, can't make a decision
Sensei Cobra = *insert 3 years of building a Merc with 9 different engine choices and 4 different plans for car.*
Sensei Cobra = That's it, I'm giving this to Al to put an LS1 in it
PF = YEAH!! sick.. do it man..
AL = Engine won't fit
Sensei Cobra = That's it. I'm buying a V12
PF = Booo... hisss.. don't be a fag etc etc.


basically, crackas car is a throw away car that he couldn't sell, and didn't have an axe handy to attach to it, so is spending great dollars to make a car good for skids.
your project was always about balance and traction and on a budget of a man with a single income and 2 kids and a wife and mortgage would have.
I think people are just trying to prevent you from making an expensive decision and having a car that is not what you thought it was going to be for the last 3 years.

Hell - Even Az is saying not to.
And he's that little devil cunt on your shoulder when trying to make a decision about things you know you shouldn't do, going "buy it you fag!!!"

I'm all for seeing an Al conversion of any sort.

But I think those that know you in some way are trying to look after you or something.

[Gammaboy]

Putting a rack in it so you can put an 8 in it isn't rocket science!

[Cal]

Sensei Cobra

I just lost my shit! :rotflol:

[JZK25]

Putting a rack in it so you can put an 8 in it isn't rocket science!

I have driven one with a rack conversion, it was fucked. But if you can do a rack conversion that you will guarantee will work properly he will trailer it over.

WHere the fuck are you cunts getting this idea that a 1GZ blows headgaskets easily? Sounds like a complete load of shit to me but link me up.

[bahaimus]

It's all a moot point now. My money is off in the ether on it's way to another mans account as payment in full for the V12. :h5:

[richzx]

The important thing is that Al will do an awesome job on the conversion so you can cross off that headache and really only have to worry about popping a motor. Toyota engines are made to last and with some mechanical sympathy it could last ok?

[tim510]

ok so next question.

what management? what throttles etc?

[Turbo 351]

It's all a moot point now. My money is off in the ether on it's way to another mans account as payment in full for the V12. :h5:

Nice, at the end of the day-do what makes you happy. Afterall-thats why we all do this shit in the first place.

[JZK25]

PS2000 or V88 will both run it with no dramas. I don't care either way although PS2000 will do the injectors sequentially so it's better for that reason.