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Help with recovery point bolt spacing - D40 and 200 series

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    #31
    Originally posted by takai View Post
    What seems to be hard to comprehend for some people is the need to sometimes meet pointless regulations.

    Recovery points need to be at both ends of the car. You really think we didnt check that? :w:


    While pointing out that you need to meet the 'pointless requirements' of the club, your original post fails to clearly stipulate your lack of concern for recovery point strength and performance.

    I suggest you also put a sticker next to them warning others not to use them just in case

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by lukevl View Post


      While pointing out that you need to meet the 'pointless requirements' of the club, your original post fails to clearly stipulate your lack of concern for recovery point strength and performance.

      I suggest you also put a sticker next to them warning others not to use them just in case
      As opposed to what? Getting some mythical load rated point for the 60 series? ARB made a winch bar for the 60 series, this is what happens to its supposedly 'load rated' recovery point:


      Even if the point held, that entire bar is only attached to the chassis with a pathetically weak secondary bracket:


      So there are no factory/aftermarket fully load rated and tested mounts available for the 60 series, so far as I can find.

      But hey, given you seem to think im a bloody idiot who has no idea...
      This is all about threading a line between regulations and realistic expectations. Club requirement for club rego is a load rated point at each end, there is no stipulation for actually being able to recover off it. However, the stock 60 series recovery point mounts are a pair of 12mm crush tubes through the chassis end/stub spaced 60mm apart and joined between the chassis rails next to the shackle mounts in the factory configuration. See two lower zinc coated bolts in the photo above.

      We need to mount a load rated recovery point to that, with the added requirement that it doesnt clearly breach road safety regulations (i.e. a protrusion from the bumper bar).

      Several manufacturers, such as Trail Tailor make points that fit perfectly but are not explicitly load rated: http://www.trail-tailor.com/store/p9...00_Series.html
      These are well regarded, and plenty of examples of people recovering 60 series off them. But we cannot use them as no stamp.

      Given that 80 series have the same recovery point mount as the 60 series (with the exception of the leaf mounts fouling, and the front bumper outline), one would reasonably expect that the 60 series would be able to be recovered off the same point to the same rating, barring any deterioration of the metal.

      Which leaves us with a fairly simple option. We need a load rated recovery point with 60mm bolt spacing that looks like the Trail Tailor one.

      In other news, it appears that D22 Navara recovery points are both 60mm and 75mm spaced (depending on the chassis apparently) and are sufficiently rated


      TBH if it was my car, and I wasn't part of a club that required it, i would build a triangulated brace between the ends of the chassis and integrate recovery points off that while pushing the front bumper outline out to enable a winch to be mounted.
      But it isn't my car, and my mate wants to keep the period correct bumper.
      Chris
      ------
      The new nugget
      I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

      Comment


        #33
        Can and bend one out of 8mm steel.... stamp some numbers on it and paint it yellow.

        Don't mention the adBlocker !!

        Comment


          #34
          The fact they are mandating RRPs on a car that has no product available and no realistic way Joe Public can rate some is basically saying he can't attend drive days. I can see why it's so frustrating. Having personally seen a friend's brain through the hole in their head from a bad off-road recovery it just shits me that they can mandate such a thing when no recovery point would be better. A winch bar and self-recovery would probably be the best option.

          And in ARB's defence they wouldn't call that a rated recovery point- maybe just a tie down point or something as you implied. The rated recovery point scene didn't really become a thing in the Australian aftermarket until about 2012 or so

          Comment


            #35
            Found a bit more once i realised that they used to be called Tow Hooks, not Recovery Points.

            This is the stock mounting location from Toyota:


            This is the factory load rated recovery point (that we don't have):


            Seems Toyota rate a recovery point mounted to those holes to 4.5T

            That second picture shows the weirdness of the bumper location. The factory bumper mounts pretty much directly in line with the end of the chassis rail, rather than the extended winch bar area. Old mate seems to have cut out the crush tubes too. The front cutouts in the stock bumper are where the recovery point sits in the stock configuration.

            But you can see that without the winch bar extension any non-D shaped recovery point will protrude from the stock bumper and therefore be a 'road hazard'. Im working on convincing my mate that we can build a small extension to the chassis rails to mount the bumper off and then just use 80 series recovery points that will then be behind the bumper line.
            Chris
            ------
            The new nugget
            I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by takai View Post
              80 series hooks are the same as 100 series that he already has and we are fitting to the rear.
              Weld/Cut/drill these leaving the load rating indicators intact?

              Comment


                #37
                If you had access to those Toyota ones I'd run them and let them poke out beyond the stock 60 series bar for 2 reasons: They are as per OE design (as far as any cop knows), and they don't contradict with the 5mm edge radius rule in state and NCOP regs.

                Your idea of spacing the bar is more realistic especially since your chosen solution will likely be 'defect yellow' mild steel plate with 0.5mm edge radius poking up in front of the grill.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by lukevl View Post
                  If you had access to those Toyota ones I'd run them and let them poke out beyond the stock 60 series bar for 2 reasons: They are as per OE design (as far as any cop knows), and they don't contradict with the 5mm edge radius rule in state and NCOP regs.

                  Your idea of spacing the bar is more realistic especially since your chosen solution will likely be 'defect yellow' mild steel plate with 0.5mm edge radius poking up in front of the grill.
                  Yeah, we have the stock Toyota ones, but it appears they arent load rated in Australia but were in the US for whatever reason. The ones i have from the Hilux bull bar i had are the same, no stamp.

                  I think that i have managed to convince him about the winch bar though, by showing him that picture above with the bumper extensions. He wants to retain the stock bumper for nostalgia reasons, so im working on convincing him to attach it to a subframe with Dzus fasteners or something so it can be removed quickly if he needs to use the winch or recovery points.
                  Chris
                  ------
                  The new nugget
                  I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A small bird will drop frozen dead from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself. - D.H.Lawrence

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by takai View Post
                    As opposed to what? Getting some mythical load rated point for the 60 series? ARB made a winch bar for the 60 series, this is what happens to its supposedly 'load rated' recovery point:
                    That isnt a recovery point, its a high lift jack attachment point, so many tards think hole = shackle = snatch

                    Personally I hate those 2 bolt pos things that get caught on everything. They may be rated but the chassis and captive nuts are not.





                    What does the 4wd club say about barwork with integrated recovery points? Id trust a bit of 16mm plate bolted in multiple places / welded to the chassis over one of those things above

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by takai View Post
                      As opposed to what? Getting some mythical load rated point for the 60 series? ARB made a winch bar for the 60 series, this is what happens to its supposedly 'load rated' recovery point:
                      As Neil says, those 3mm sheetmetal eyes with the little circular 3mm thick doubler around them are high-lift jacking points to suit the ARB high-lift adapter, they're not designed as, intended as, marked as or marketed as recovery points.

                      Here's the adaptor. I own one (making me one of about three people in the country I think), there are also matching attachment points on a lot of kaymar rear bars. I'm not a big fan of the design, the TJM T-slot is far simpler IMO. Later ARB bars just have a rectangular hole for the nose of the hi-lift to slot into.

                      Click image for larger version

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                      My vote is make something yourself (stamp it with "WLL 8T" then powdercoat red or yellow) and try to pick up on a few more mounting holes.
                      Don't worry, thats just the self-preservation instinct, in my experience you can safely ignore it.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        The stamp alone probably won't do a whole lot if they want the paperwork.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Bogans running 4wd clubs. So because you can get something entirely suitable from the states, but you can't use it because it doesn't have a stamp, ffs. I'd be going back to the clubs committee and putting it back to them. I have x vehicle these are the issues, what should I do.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            At the neat AGM he should query people selecting and using recovery gear without rigging tickets seeing as ratings and safety are so important

                            Iíve got an original bumper/hooks/bolts etc in the shed Iíll see if thereís any stamps on the hooks

                            Iíll also check if I have anything else useful I parted out a 60 and have vague memories of it having recovery points

                            Is there anything for a 75 on the market? Toyota kept using leaf fronts in utes for a lot longer than they did in wagons

                            Comment


                              #44
                              So hereís a brand new front bumper and tow hook. The dealer organised the ARB bar to be fitted in Ď83 and itís been hanging around ever since

                              Click image for larger version

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                              No sign of any stamped ratings anywhere

                              The recovery point things I found are very home made fuck knows why I kept them

                              Iíd grab these:
                              https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/p/...=en_AU&start=1 provided theyíre 60mm centres theyíre rated, period correct, and commercially produced.

                              Comment


                                #45
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                                Can't use them as they're not rated
                                No. Driving an esky along the footpath will be the end humanity. This must be stopped.
                                "Lol!! The son of satan will rideth thine esky, wearing nought but the beater of wives and the double secured half sandle, and he will wave his hands in great mirth ushering in the end of all mankind"

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