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2JZ head porting.

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    #16
    Some more info.

    All heads checked with no manifolds either side, and trimmed ram tubes to suit each head. All checked with standard lift as per standard cams. Bare ports, with exhaust flowing out! Rb25 wasnt a neo and the variable valve timing wasnt activated for the test so that is a significant factor for the rb25 head right there. In no way was I trying to swing any arguements they are just the raw figures. In personal choice the rb26 head is the go as the inlet design is so far superior to the 2jz but the exhaust seriously lacks in standard form, as with anything these can all be modded but I am not giving away the figures we were able to pull out of the rb26 head. would shock a few people here with just how huge of a potential these can flow, but then you will get the ney sayers that will argue head porting a turbo is a waste of time or you lose down low torque etc etc.
    very interesting figures there
    also note that the 2J has a lift of 8.61/8.79mm while the 26 im pretty sure is only 8.1/8.2mm??

    also, a guy in the the states flowed the 2J and 1J heads and got significantly higher figures than that!!
    was done at 400lift (10.16mm) but not sure at what inches of water it was done at tho
    his figures read:

    std 2J as follows
    238@400lift intake
    154@400lift exhaust

    std 1J
    215@400 intake
    133@400 exhaust

    your 2J figures give a percentage of 87% while his gives 64.7%
    granted his tests are done at alot more lift which will give a higher reading

    cheers
    Troy
    A few more side notes for those interested.

    The rb26 is one of the highest flowing heads we have tested in terms of cfm for the inlet, now most production cars run at around 70-80% effeciency on the exhaust side but the rb26 is down there, lot of this has to do with the big lump on the inside of the port, so it can be fixed.

    I would expect up to 10cfm increase on the rb25 with vvt activated.

    The 2jz head is a real strong perfromer however the inlet manifold is garbage so in real world terms i dont think it would be as strong as indicated here.

    How is saying the 1jz head outperfroms the 2jz is an idiot the cam timing and lift is lower for starters!

    The best factory head we have run at factory specs is definately the early evo mitsu heads with the inlet and exhaust flowing within 5% of each other, and flowing from memory around 130cfm.

    Like gary has eluded to testing on a bench fro max number is like a dyno comp. it doesnt matter if you make 30 peak hp more if you dont start making power till 6g when the guy who came second starts making good power at 3.5g, his car is always going to feel and be quicker. When looking at these numbers bear the whole system in mind ie. inlet manifold design, and exhaust manifold design, room for improvements, and how they work in conjunction with a sum of other parts!

    Cheers.
    Daniel
    10.83 @ 125

    Quickest stock exhaust manifold stud 2JZ in Aus.


    Originally posted by cracka
    Some conclusions empirically were that a large protruding ridge like a prolapsed arsehole around the runner was largely beneficial.

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      #17
      Teh GTR can neva loose

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        #18
        im happy to donate my 1997 mk4 for the cause. Its a pre vvti model, so runs MAP not afm *shudder* @ afm and vvti)

        just it cant be of the road too long.

        mods include:

        t04z single turbo
        stainless manifold
        strainless turbo back exhaust
        power fc ecu
        4" thick fmic
        triple plate clutch

        blah blah blah

        lets just say around $30k in performance modsm and is due for magazine shoot in next couple months.

        cars curerntly in melb getting respray, but will be bakc in bris in about 2-3 weeks

        how soon u need the vehicle?

        im keen, but i dont need much more power, just one of those things.

        feel free to email me - mark@firesport.com and we can discuss if u are keen.

        can assure u that cars up for magazine shoot as soon as its fixed.

        mark

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          #19
          as for people questioning about ex versus in cfm, wudlnt the x cfm not need to be as high since the explosion FORCES the air out MUCH more than the pressurised turbo forces IN. add the 'scavenging' of the extractors and u dint need ex to flow anywhere near the in.

          or am i tripping on 8 ball?

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            #20
            The less work it takes to evacuate the cylinder the better- remember it is pushing against the turbine so it probably does need as much help as it can get. The other gain is that the cylinder ends up more thoroughly emptied so the charge is less polluted, and I guess pumping losses are minimised.

            I'm of the school of thought that says it doesn't matter as much. But I've generally been involved in engines that are detonation limited so if you got more air/fuel in you would have to run even less timing to compensate.. Put it this way, you bung a blower on a 308 and you can get double the power easily, that's pretty good. I am sure porting wil help and it would be more efficient but in my experience that costs real money so doesn't get done as a priority :D VERY interested to see before and after stuff TK.

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              #21
              i dont think my 2jz is worthy either. 264 cams on standard springs, to4r non ball bearing turbo. do have haltech e11v2 tho.

              i think to get the best from porting you need a new inlet manifold, and a non dodgy china turbo manifold.

              there is a good article on 2jz head porting here.... (for the yanks point of view)
              http://www.to4r.com/techarticle.php?id=5
              "And I know that arseholes grow on trees but I'm here to trim the leaves" Peeping Tom, Mike Patton

              Comment


                #22
                2JZ (std) Inlet: 139cfm Ex:121cfm

                These figures are crap, no way will the ex be 87% of the intake, dude needs his flow bench (or brain) checked.

                std 2J as follows
                238@400lift intake
                154@400lift exhaust

                This sounds about right, more than likely tested at 28" of water, but possibly 25".

                For a bit of a comparison, some WRX figures, tested at 28"
                Stock IN 264cfm @ .400" lift
                Ported 302cfm @ .400"

                Stock EX 164cfm @ .400" lift
                Ported 231cfm @ .400" lift

                14% improvement at .400" lift on intake
                40% improvement at .400" lift on exhaust

                These figures are on stock valves.

                Intake/Exhaust ratio goes from 62% up to 77%.

                Going by the stock 2J figures it's probably not possible to get 300cfm on the stock valve size, but 270-280 should be doable - depends on how bad the seats/bowls are in stock form.
                Toyota exhausts are generally complete crud, I wouldn't be suprised if I can beat the 40% gain of the WRX heads on the stock valve sizes.
                May be able to get 80% in/ex ratio, possibly even better - that will 100% transform the power delivery.

                WTF - sounds like a good setup, but the time factor may be a problem, I'd need the head for a good 2 weeks & couldn't start for at least a week (gotta clear out a bunch of work).
                Also, I don't need the whole car, just the head (with cams etc), intake & ex manifolds & old head gasket - I don't have the room to store a car or the facilites to remove/refit a head easily - I'm purely an engine builder/machinist.

                Muz, how much is it worth to convert to big single, aftermarket ecu, supporting fuel system, exhaust etc etc? - methinks you'd dump the better part of $10k into it pretty quick, another $2.5k for headwork that'll really wake it up & see the potential of the rest of the work is not that much.
                The work I do on the rexies is more for drivability & response than outright power, the idea is to allow the use of a fairly large turbo whilst retaining boost response as close as possible (or better than) stock - best of both worlds, top end that only a big turbo can produce but with the spool time & response of a smaller turbo.

                I'll say again, just in case anyone missed it, PORTING IS EVEN MORE EFFECTIVE ON A BOOSTED ENGINE THAN IT IS ON AN NA ENGINE, this is not a personal opinion, it's a fact.

                TK

                Comment


                  #23
                  Would you consider doing a 1jz head? I have a apexi power fc and getting jun cams, cam gears and crower valve springs and titanium retainers soon.
                  Nissan 200sx 97 S14a - Stolen
                  Toyota Soarer 91 JZZ30 - 11.423@118.94mph 1.587 60ft
                  Subaru Impreza WRX CS10 MY10 - Stock with roof racks

                  Comment


                    #24
                    there is a good article on 2jz head porting here.... (for the yanks point of view)
                    http://www.to4r.com/techarticle.php?id=5
                    Just had a quick skim through that, guy is an idiot, just reguritating stuff he has heard without any real understanding, dosen't really say anything at all usefull about actual porting work - I'd say he's an amature that does a bit of work in his shed, he alludes to a lot of knowledge but dosen't actually seem to have any.

                    Edit - Jampac, 2J only, 1J head is different so gains won't be representative of 2J gains, sorry.

                    TK

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                      #25
                      Yeah, I emailed him years ago when I had my head ported. No idea - was blown away by my shim under bucket conversion.

                      Exhaust ports are truly crap - I think I posted my NA head flows (yes, I know they're quite different to the turbo head) and showed the exhausts only flowed 65% of the intake. The turbo head looks worse IMHO.
                      Proudly presenting the new foot long chocolate Subway.
                      Originally posted by ALLMTR
                      Rats tail haircut used to mean make sure the OC spray is shaken

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                        #26
                        fair enough. prob an excited young kid in an old good time yanky workshop.

                        Would you say the exhaust side is bad enough it warrants filling up and starting again? Just saying this because of how the ports come out at angles, or can a good port and turbo manifold work around this? (Especially considering how small the exhaust ports are, should be plenty of meat to take out)
                        "And I know that arseholes grow on trees but I'm here to trim the leaves" Peeping Tom, Mike Patton

                        Comment


                          #27
                          You can work around awkward port shapes, the chambers, seats, bowls & short turns are where most of the flow is picked up, as long as the rest is big enough to flow a bit more than the valves/seats/bowls it's really only there to point the ex gas in the right direction.
                          WRX's are a huge case in point, 1 ex port is damn near straight, the other is 2.5 times as long & has a dogleg shape (I assume to work around crossmembers etc), from the factory the dogleg port flows horribly, but some carefull opening up in a few spots can get it to match the straight port (within 2%).

                          Your engine is a contender for being suitable, stock intake will hold it back a bit but everything else sounds good.

                          From my point of view RZ's head would be ideal, he's got all the supporting mods, big power & horrible lag + a good development history - a prime candidate for headwork.
                          So I'll give first option to RZ, if he's not up for it for whatever reason then I'll take the next best option.

                          TK

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                            #28
                            TK

                            speak to RX22NV, he has a couple of 2J's lying around... one of them is fucked so he may be intrested
                            im a cunt
                            and apparently i dont know shit...

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                              #29
                              hits subscribe for updates
                              Originally posted by Carroll Smith
                              The price of Man in motion is the occasional collision.
                              Royalpurple Oils

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by nismo 400 R N1
                                Teh GTR can neva loose

                                haha thats extremely funny lol
                                93RZ-78mm GT45/42 turbo, 6boost manifold, twin gates, 5" turbo back exhaust, cpc custom plenum, autronic smc and 500r, ID2000 injectors, weldon 2345a pump and controller, v161 6spd, NPC twin plate clutch running e85 making ???@??

                                94GZ- in progress

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