2JZ head porting.

[Kaiser]

WRX's are a huge case in point, 1 ex port is damn near straight, the other is 2.5 times as long & has a dogleg shape (I assume to work around crossmembers etc), from the factory the dogleg port flows horribly, but some carefull opening up in a few spots can get it to match the straight port (within 2%).

TK

Off on a tangent here ... how much does it cost to do that to a set of EJ2xx heads?

[ALLMTR]

Damn, couple of months early for me

[TK]

Kaiser - Depends on the extent of the work, full reco + custom seat job (I've made up custom throat & relief cutters for WRX's to get the seats flowing as much as possible - nothing off the shelf was quite right), full port & flow test, valve clearances & spring heights set up etc ready to bolt back on is around $1700 for the pair.
Oversize 1 piece stainless valves (biggest that will fit on the stock seat inserts) add about $600, cams add either $800 or $1050 depending on wheter it's VCT or not (Kelford cams) & springs add about $200 (can't remember exactly tho).
So for the whole box & dice capable of 300+ kw atw (depending on bolt ons & bottom end strength) around $3300-$3600.

In most cases the bigger valves aren't neccesary - they don't allow all that much more flow, the biggest benefit is at low lift (subaru bowls can suffer from the effects of core shift, making it difficult to get the intake bowls right on stock valve size sometimes - bigger valves gives more room to machine out the core shift & improve the low lift flow through the seat).

TK

[takai]

Hm, this just reminds me that i have to get you a 4A head with the FA valves. I have a 2JZ, but its only a humble 2JZGE NA bubby.

[Kaiser]

Kaiser - Depends on the extent of the work, full reco + custom seat job (I've made up custom throat & relief cutters for WRX's to get the seats flowing as much as possible - nothing off the shelf was quite right), full port & flow test, valve clearances & spring heights set up etc ready to bolt back on is around $1700 for the pair.
Oversize 1 piece stainless valves (biggest that will fit on the stock seat inserts) add about $600, cams add either $800 or $1050 depending on wheter it's VCT or not (Kelford cams) & springs add about $200 (can't remember exactly tho).
So for the whole box & dice capable of 300+ kw atw (depending on bolt ons & bottom end strength) around $3300-$3600.

In most cases the bigger valves aren't neccesary - they don't allow all that much more flow, the biggest benefit is at low lift (subaru bowls can suffer from the effects of core shift, making it difficult to get the intake bowls right on stock valve size sometimes - bigger valves gives more room to machine out the core shift & improve the low lift flow through the seat).

TK

Coolness ... was looking at a set of late model Liberty/Legacy heads for my toy.

They have variable valve timing on both inlet and exhaust side and use the STi valvetrain, though they apparrently use a lower lift but longer duration version of the STi cams.

I am looking at mostly street usage, with the possibility of a few track days, so I was wondering whether going cams and oversized valves was worth looking at or should I just stay with the stock valvetrain?

[TK]

VCT is great on these things, really helps with tuning out lag.
I may (or may not) be able to source you a set of VCT STI cams second hand, if you want I can make a couple of calls, of course they're not as good as the bigger kelfords, but they'll be a lot cheaper.
One thing about turbo engines - bigger cams don't kill off torque to the same extent as they do on an NA engine, so you can go 272's on a street engine no worries.
For your needs stock valves will be fine, but springs will be needed for bigger cams or boost over 18psi (or both ).
Are the later liberty heads the same casting as WRX? - I thought they were hyd bucket rather than solid bucket & shim, but I'm not sure, almost all the heads I do are WRX or STI.
Actually, I think the set I just did were legacy, maybe I should pay more attention to what they come off :knock: .

TK

[Kaiser]

VCT is great on these things, really helps with tuning out lag.
I may (or may not) be able to source you a set of VCT STI cams second hand, if you want I can make a couple of calls, of course they're not as good as the bigger kelfords, but they'll be a lot cheaper.
One thing about turbo engines - bigger cams don't kill off torque to the same extent as they do on an NA engine, so you can go 272's on a street engine no worries.
For your needs stock valves will be fine, but springs will be needed for bigger cams or boost over 18psi (or both ).
Are the later liberty heads the same casting as WRX? - I thought they were hyd bucket rather than solid bucket & shim, but I'm not sure, almost all the heads I do are WRX or STI.
Actually, I think the set I just did were legacy, maybe I should pay more attention to what they come off :knock: .

TK

I had thought that the STi heads had AVCS only on the inlet side?

That was why I was looking at going with the Liberty heads, to get the exhaust side AVCS setup as well.

Pretty sure that all MY03-onwards Oz delivered WRX/STi/Liberty heads are all the same small port castings and that they are all mechanical cam lifters. (pretty sure the hydraulic lifters were last used around 1996).

Probably don't want to go over 18 psi anyway ... i just picked up an IHI VF37 twin scroll unit ... and some of the earlier IHI turbos have a poor reputation for taking high boost and grenade at anything above 1.3 bar.

Of course, my current EJ-205 bottom end is going to be a limitation, and I wouldn't want to run anything higher than 18psi on that anyway ... ideally I'd look at sourcing a v7 EJ-207 short block to go with the modified Liberty heads anyway.

[TK]

Another option is the liberty(?) EJ22 short semi-closed deck, or an STI closed deck (can get one, but will be pricey).
Another option is the STI 2.5 short - not closed deck but I've seen them go 260-270kw atw before they split a bore.
I don't think they are available through subaru any more, but I can source them - haven't priced one recently but they were around $3.5K, lots of guys buy them & fit scat rods & JE or Arias pistons for a relatively cheap & tough short motor with an extra 500cc, the serious guys get them close-decked & sleeved to run big boost, not so serious leave them stock or just fit forged slugs (stock pistons have a habit of smashing the top ring land when they're squeezed hard).

TK

[Mighty Mouse]

MRT rally are still selling them for $3.5k.
Click here

Seems like an ok thing to do.
And if anything ever goes wrong with my motor TK i'll be sending my heads straight down to you. Those flow figures seem quite impressive.
I've got a relativly small turbo on mine (VF35, stock 2.5l turbo?) but more low end/mid range torque would be nice

[TK]

^no worries!

Back on topic:
I'm giving it till monday, if no-one wants their 2J head fiddled cheap then I'll take up the offer from one of the guys with spare heads & will have to content myself with flow figures untill it finds a home.

[2JZR31]

Will this require new shims? These things are like $12.50 or something each and there are 24 so that's $300.

[TK]

Nope!, cutting the seats & facing the valves raises the tip height - I just set the head up with the cams & buckets in but no valves etc, then just push the valves up & measure the clearance then grind the tip of the valve down to get it right.
Haven't bought a shim for years...

You in?

[2JZR31]

Still considering it. I will PM you.

[pH@tTm@N]

would you be able to tell if the valve springs are up to the 264 cams and 8000rpm if they were in your hands? Im wondering if I wouldnt need some better valve springs before too much further either, last tuner made a comment that he slightly lowered the rev cut because he thought he heard some valve float.

[21OWA]

if no1 takes up the offer with b4 and after figures then ill definitly consider it!
just need to find out what it will cost me for my head guy to do it all up here
im looking at going 1mm oversize valves tho which i would supply
also my cams wont arrive for a couple weeks and you would definitly need them to do it as they have huge 11mm+ lift

my motor would definitly take advantage of major headwork 2!!

pm sent TK