The diesel debate

[smellytofu]

Just having a read of drive.com.au and their talk of the new Falcon and Territory coming with a diesel and how it pumps out 20% less CO2 than petrol engines, it had me wondering what is more nastier, the CO2 or the particulates it produces. I would have though LPG would have been the go on being environmental...

Are we being led down the wrong garden path by Europe on this one?

[Soarin]

Particlates in the air can act as aerosols which reflect heat away from the atmosphere, so not an entirely bad thing, apart from the fact they can sometimes cause acid rain. CO as produced by LPG and petrol is eight times worse for absorbing the suns energy than CO2, so diesels have an advantage there over LPG.

[rj_astra]

Particulates are far worse for us than C02. They are cancer causing compounds. Diesels also pump out far more NOx emissions that are directly responsible for smog

The only real benefit of diesels is their lower C02 emissions. Petrol engines are far far easier to "clean up" for all other harmful emissions.

LPG does not reduce C02 emissions over a similar petrol fueled engine.

[Captiva Fan]

Particulates are far worse for us than C02. They are cancer causing compounds.

Well, yes, but kinda sort-of. Looking out your window past a yellow flower in the window-box causes cancer.

Are particulates still a big issue? Anyone know what the current diesel emissions laws are? You can't see it anymore, not with passenger cars at least.

[EfiOz]

A lot of newer common rail diesels are getting particulates down to a negligible level. Peugeot and Benz are especially good at this.

Their are still too many oxides, especially sulphur which is where the acid rain comes from. But if you started using Biodiesel........

[sean]

Diesel went to low sulfur content tho a few years ago - sorta like the move to unleaded/leaded fuel.

Sean
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TXR312M
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Mary Jane

[smellytofu]

LPG does not reduce C02 emissions over a similar petrol fueled engine.

My comment referred to how cleanly it burns.. not any reduction of CO2 etc.

[jampac]

But to use biodiesel at the same consumption rate as what diesel is consumed at would require masses of deforestation.

[rj_astra]

My comment referred to how cleanly it burns.. not any reduction of CO2 etc.

And I am not sure that current LPG cars (eGas Falcoon) are noticeably cleaner, emission-wise, than a Euro3/4 compliant petrol car.

[Aaron]

But to use biodiesel at the same consumption rate as what diesel is consumed at would require masses of deforestation.

The point (I thought) of BIO Diesel was to partially invovle the recycling of the billions of litres of fryer oil that gets used by the Food industry each year. Sure it's not all going to be recycled by it's a damn good start.

A.

[jampac]

There is other sources like palm oil, plastics industry, etc... Palm oil is one of the cheapest of the renewable types. At the moment europe has targets of 10% I think for 2010 or something like that of biodiesel to be used. It's going to take ages for it to completely replace diesel, and if it did, it'd be hugely expensive to ramp up that much production.

Fryer oil barely makes a dent. The day you see endless lines of tankers at sea waiting to dock full of fryer oil, well then we might be getting somewhere, but at the moment those endless lines of tankers are full of crude oil which was dirt cheap to extract compared to anything biodiesel has to offer.

[GTSBoy]

Except that the European mandated target bio replacement that increased consumption of pal oil in Europe had a disastrous effect in Indonesia where the deforested (ie burnt) a massive amount of rainforest to clear ir for palm oil production to satisfy the sudden increase in market demand.

So the Euro do-gooding did far more damage to the environment than it will be able to make up for in a bloody long time.

Bloody idiots.

[dazza]

Diesels get far far better economy and the economy doesn't drop off nearly as bad towing weight ie. big fat Australian pieces of shite

[S_E]

Except that the European mandated target bio replacement that increased consumption of pal oil in Europe had a disastrous effect in Indonesia where the deforested (ie burnt) a massive amount of rainforest to clear ir for palm oil production to satisfy the sudden increase in market demand.

So the Euro do-gooding did far more damage to the environment than it will be able to make up for in a bloody long time.

Bloody idiots.

But that's ok, because they didn't have to cut anything down in Europe

[RB30-POWER]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_particulate_filter