So...the TRD Aurion

[out_in_front]

Australia is too small a market for the production line rejigging required for the RWD stuff. The other aspect is that the enthusiast driver is less than 10% of the market and the enthusiast driver who buys a new car is even a smaller part of the market!
The other often unsaid thing is that point to point across country, lets say the best 300km drive you can think of at 90% of a cars capability (I doubt you can do better on a public road) there is little difference between FWD/RWD.

That is the attitude that is sending Mitsubishi Aus Broke...
And the reason that Toyota will never get to the pointy end of the large car market. The enthusiast market may be 10% of the total market, but of the large car market I would guess there would be a much larger cut, and even then you are not taken the yobbo percent of the market into account.

[audineil]

I have driven well set up FWD 4WD and RWD cars and have had competition success with all configurations, as an engineer of course. At club level as a driver as well.

RWD flatters poor driving ability, so favours lair drivers e.g. Jeremy Clarkson.

4wd has vastly superior drive out of corners but also flatters limited driving ability. The extra weight is a burden. It is not as popular with those who are more interested in the show.

Drivng a well set up competition FWD drive car requires very committed and precise technique, so is not popular with many drivers. FWD cars are not seriously limited as competition cars. FWD cars tend to be lighter. Importantly, the wheels point to where the car is going.

Neil

[kabab]

That is the attitude that is sending Mitsubishi Aus Broke...
And the reason that Toyota will never get to the pointy end of the large car market. The enthusiast market may be 10% of the total market, but of the large car market I would guess there would be a much larger cut, and even then you are not taken the yobbo percent of the market into account.

Maybe Toyota are happy making billions of $$$ profit while the rest of the automotive industry is trying to get its act together...

[Nero]

The only safe thing to do in a FWD that has lost traction is back off.

which is wonderful for a manufacturer interested in safety...which sells more cars safety or speed?

[Nero]

That is the attitude that is sending Mitsubishi Aus Broke...
And the reason that Toyota will never get to the pointy end of the large car market. The enthusiast market may be 10% of the total market, but of the large car market I would guess there would be a much larger cut, and even then you are not taken the yobbo percent of the market into account.

you must be joking? MMAL is backed by a company with large cash reserves that GM would wet its pants for. The local arm is not doing well for a variety of reasons but NOTHING to do with RWD/FWD!
The enthusiast does not just consider the large cars, most would decry them....how many on this forum own a 1-2 YO falcon/dore?

[oldcorollas]

fwiw
mistubishi company directory about 3-400 companies in total, and 30 core companies..
even in japan, mitsubishi motor is a plaything relative to the rest of the company.. but it is more a loose group of companies... which i guess is why they are not really interested in bailing out MMC
http://www.mitsubishi.com/e/group/about.html

people sstill say "but you need RWD for towing etc".. but i can't remember the last falcon or commodore or ute of either that i saw towing a boat or caravan....
for proper heavy towing, seems most ppl have a landcruiser or patrol or similar (which makes more sense anyway due to higher car weight)

[flopper]

so obviously this thread is about the Aurion, but what's the go with the Hilux? is it actually any different from a normal model or has it just been tarted up with a body kit?

[TonyJZX]

it's not like Tonsley Park has access to billions of dollars and unlimited supercomputers and wind tunnels to adapt a US design for the Aussie market...

would i be as bold as to say that the 380 was developed on a much smaller budget than the VE?

i mean going on and on about how well off their parent companies are doesn't exactly translate to a superior end product

one other thing... everyone knows threads like this will always degenerate into an FWD vs. RWD argument... one can argue about the 'artistic' merits of either but at the end of the day I'd think it's a minor point to the people who came up with the Aurion TRD... they were given a direct to build it on an existing FWD chassis... and that was that

one can bang on about how 'demanding' FWD chassis are to drive and how well they perform on a circuit but the bottom line is that the Aurion will never have much in the way of any motorsport heritage (besides the odd targa by Glenn Ridge) and one wonders why Mercedes and BMW and all the rest persist with RWD at all if FWD is the panacea people think it is

[Captiva Fan]

of course you can get all tail happy in a RWD, BUT, do car makers want to be known as building P-plater deathtraps?

The only people outside of the USA that have ever even heard of the concept of FWD cars being "safe" are those who frequent US-based websites where we can hear the product of the US manufacturers' marketing campaigns to sell Americans cheap FWD cars.

one wonders why Mercedes and BMW and all the rest persist with RWD at all if FWD is the panacea people think it is

One need wonder no more!
The reason is that, at the pointy end of the market where the fact that it costs $2k extra per car to build it in RWD, it doesn't matter. These guys can basically just charge the extra $2k & nobody blinks. BMW 1-series is prolly a good example. It might only be a 0.05% advantage in actual handling over the same development money spent on a FWD car, but in marketing terms it's almost a self-fulfilling prophecy (ie. it costs more so must be better, and it's better so it must cost more).
Plus, in a market like Australia, it's probably cheaper per-car to use the RWD marketing effect than to have a campaign for those cars.

[audineil]

My apologies TOnyGTSt for using motorsport as an example of 4WD vs FWD vs RWD handling on the limit. It was only used as an example.

I was simply pointing out to GTSboy why many people favour RWD.

It remains to be seen whether tha Aurion will have "much in the way of motorsport heritage". The big leg-up that Ford and Holden have in the way of motorsport heritage is that they don't like racing anyone else. Australia still has Production Car Racing. Ford and Holden definitely do not have a monopoly on Production Car Championships.

Neil

[Paddington]

I met the designer (or one of) that worked on the TRD Aurion.

in summary, I think even he agreed it was a heap of shit.

[smikGZ-]

so obviously this thread is about the Aurion, but what's the go with the Hilux? is it actually any different from a normal model or has it just been tarted up with a body kit?

Note sure if its been mentioned already, but the Hilux gets a supercharged 4.0 V6. It has different rims and a different front bumper.

[Ustasa]

I met the designer (or one of) that worked on the TRD Aurion.

in summary, I think even he agreed it was a heap of shit.

Well there you have it. No matter how hard you flog a donkey, it will never run like a horse.

[lumpy]

you must be joking? MMAL is backed by a company with large cash reserves that GM would wet its pants for. The local arm is not doing well for a variety of reasons but NOTHING to do with RWD/FWD!
The enthusiast does not just consider the large cars, most would decry them....how many on this forum own a 1-2 YO falcon/dore?

I have a falcon that I drive but don't own (company vehicle). I would be very disappointed if I owned it as IMHO it is a bit crap. Generally reliable but fit/finish poor and it feels like it has done 160,000kms not 52,000.

[wiggah]

Could it perhaps be the way it is treated?

None of the 3 falcons I've owned have felt older than they should (no rattles or bits falling off).