Header / Extractor design

[sssgtr]

simon, here's the rest:

no. of intake valves 2
valve head diam 35mm
valve stem diam 7mm
cam valve lift 7mm
duration at seat timing 262
degreed centreline / lobe centreline 113

exhaust:
no. valves 1
valve head diam 41mm
valve stem diam 8mm (? from memory)
cam valve lift 7mm
duration at seat 264
centreline length don't know how to work out

header type 4-1, with straight or tapered collector.

thanks

[sssgtr]

btw, is pipemax worth buying? fairly accurate?

I know Larry Meaux certainly knows his stuff, just wanted feedback from people who actually use it.

Ordered Scientific Design of Intake and Exhausts through Amazon last night, out of stock but they are ordering it in. $33 AUD delivered (standard 11-16 day shipping), pitstop.net.au want $68 + shipping for the same book!

[XEFalconUte]

--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 145.683 CID from 4250 to 6750 RPM
Diameter= 1.510 Length= 36.8 to 39.6 also 25.8 to 28.6 inches long
Note> Maximum Primary's Tuned Length= 61.0 to 63.8 inches long

--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter= 2.801 Tuned Lengths= 19.6 best and 9.8 or 39.2

H-Pipe= 19.6 X-Pipe= 78.3 distance behind end of Primary Tube ends

-- Total Exhaust System Tuned Lengths (Primary ends to TailPipe end) --
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 19.6 , 39.2 , 78.3 , 156.6 inches long

Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 29.4 , 58.7 , 117.5 , 234.9 inches long

Note=> measured from where the Primary Pipes end inside the Collector to
the point the tailpipe exits into the atmosphere.
H-Pipe is located at end of Collector, and X-Pipe is located
usually half-way between end of Primary Pipes -to- tailpipe end

Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off .0625 inch Pipe thickness

---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 159.7 inches long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 61.0 inches long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 36.8 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 25.8 inches long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 19.6 inches long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 15.5 inches long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 12.7 inches long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 10.6 inches long ... typically never used

---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 156.6 inches long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
2nd Harmonic = 78.3 inches long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
3rd Harmonic = 39.2 inches long ... more bottom-end Torque
4th Harmonic = 19.6 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 9.8 inches long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 4.9 inches long ... reduced Torque , not recommended


************** Metric Units ******************


--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 2.387 Liters from 4250 to 6750 RPM
Diameter MM= 38.366 Length= 933.5 to 1004.7 also 655.5 to 726.7 MM long
Note> Maximum Primary's Tuned Length= 1548.6 to 1619.8 MM long

--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter MM= 71.148 Tuned Lengths= 497.3 best and 248.6 or 994.5

H-Pipe= 497.3 X-Pipe= 1989.1 distance behind end of Primary Tube ends

-- Total Exhaust System Tuned Lengths (Primary ends to TailPipe end) --
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 497.3 , 994.5 , 1989.1 , 3978.2 MM long

Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 745.9 , 1491.8 , 2983.6 , 5967.3 MM long

Note=> measured from where the Primary Pipes end inside the Collector to
the point the tailpipe exits into the atmosphere.
H-Pipe is located at end of Collector, and X-Pipe is located
usually half-way between end of Primary Pipes -to- tailpipe end

Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off 1.588 MM Pipe thickness


---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 4057.1 MM long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 1548.6 MM long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 933.5 MM long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 655.5 MM long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 497.0 MM long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 394.7 MM long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 323.1 MM long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 270.2 MM long ... typically never used

---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 3978.2 MM long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
2nd Harmonic = 1989.1 MM long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
3rd Harmonic = 994.5 MM long ... more bottom-end Torque
4th Harmonic = 497.3 MM long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 248.6 MM long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 124.3 MM long ... reduced Torque , not recommended


have fun

Simon

[takai]

Any chance for one as well.

VE approx 95%
Bore 3.18 (81mm)
Stroke 3.03 (77mm)
Rod length 4.8 (122mm)
Cyls 4
Peak hp rpm 8500
comp ratio 12:1

no. of intake valves 2
valve head diam 32mm
valve stem diam 6mm
cam valve lift 9.65mm
duration at seat timing 308
degreed centreline / lobe centreline 152

exhaust:
no. valves 2
valve head diam 27mm
valve stem diam 6mm (? from memory)
cam valve lift 9.65mm
duration at seat 308

header type 4-1, with straight or tapered collector.

Cheers

[XEFalconUte]

degreed centreline / lobe centreline 152

Is that right?

Thats pretty wide.

Simon

[XEFalconUte]

I entered 110 as lobe sep and got this:


--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 96.260 CID from 6500 to 9000 RPM
Diameter= 1.416 Length= 29.3 to 31.8 also 20.4 to 23.0 inches long
Note> Maximum Primary's Tuned Length= 48.9 to 51.5 inches long

--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter= 2.638 Tuned Lengths= 15.0 best and 7.5 or 30.1

H-Pipe= 15.0 X-Pipe= 60.2 distance behind end of Primary Tube ends

-- Total Exhaust System Tuned Lengths (Primary ends to TailPipe end) --
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 15.0 , 30.1 , 60.2 , 120.3 inches long

Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 22.6 , 45.1 , 90.2 , 180.5 inches long

Note=> measured from where the Primary Pipes end inside the Collector to
the point the tailpipe exits into the atmosphere.
H-Pipe is located at end of Collector, and X-Pipe is located
usually half-way between end of Primary Pipes -to- tailpipe end

Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off .0625 inch Pipe thickness

---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 129.2 inches long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 48.9 inches long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 29.3 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 20.4 inches long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 15.3 inches long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 12.0 inches long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 9.7 inches long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 8.0 inches long ... typically never used

---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 120.3 inches long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
2nd Harmonic = 60.2 inches long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
3rd Harmonic = 30.1 inches long ... more bottom-end Torque
4th Harmonic = 15.0 inches long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 7.5 inches long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 3.8 inches long ... reduced Torque , not recommended


************** Metric Units ******************


--- Single Primary Pipe Specs --- for 1.577 Liters from 6500 to 9000 RPM
Diameter MM= 35.954 Length= 743.2 to 808.9 also 517.3 to 583.0 MM long
Note> Maximum Primary's Tuned Length= 1242.9 to 1308.6 MM long

--- Header Collector Specs (Conventional Straight Tube) ---
Diameter MM= 67.016 Tuned Lengths= 382.0 best and 191.0 or 764.0

H-Pipe= 382.0 X-Pipe= 1528.1 distance behind end of Primary Tube ends

-- Total Exhaust System Tuned Lengths (Primary ends to TailPipe end) --
Best HP/TQ Tuned Collector Lengths= 382.0 , 764.0 , 1528.1 , 3056.1 MM long

Worst HP/TQ Loss Collector Lengths= 573.0 , 1146.0 , 2292.1 , 4584.2 MM long

Note=> measured from where the Primary Pipes end inside the Collector to
the point the tailpipe exits into the atmosphere.
H-Pipe is located at end of Collector, and X-Pipe is located
usually half-way between end of Primary Pipes -to- tailpipe end

Note-> all Pipe Diameters are OD and based-off 1.588 MM Pipe thickness


---- Primary Pipe's Harmonics ----
1st Harmonic = 3280.9 MM long ... typically never used
2nd Harmonic = 1242.9 MM long ... longest recommended
3rd Harmonic = 743.2 MM long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
4th Harmonic = 517.3 MM long ... shortest recommended
5th Harmonic = 388.5 MM long ... typically never used
6th Harmonic = 305.4 MM long ... typically never used
7th Harmonic = 247.2 MM long ... typically never used
8th Harmonic = 204.3 MM long ... typically never used

---- Collector's Harmonics (includes Intermediate, Muffler , TailPipe) ----
1st Harmonic = 3056.1 MM long ... longest with Mufflers and TailPipes
2nd Harmonic = 1528.1 MM long ... longest recommended with Mufflers
3rd Harmonic = 764.0 MM long ... more bottom-end Torque
4th Harmonic = 382.0 MM long ... highly recommended , best Torque Curve
5th Harmonic = 191.0 MM long ... reduced Torque , more top-end HP sometimes
6th Harmonic = 95.5 MM long ... reduced Torque , not recommended

have fun

Simon

[sssgtr]

cheers simon, appreciate it.

[oldcorollas]

Do you have the book? I do and it does give good empirical formula to use in choosing pipe sizes, lengths, collector length and diameter.

Simon, which edition of the book do you have? i think i only have the first edition..

[takai]

degreed centreline / lobe centreline 152

Is that right?

Thats pretty wide.

Simon

ooops, 112 is what i meant, brain fart. 110 will be close enough. Thanks heaps.

[XEFalconUte]

Simon, which edition of the book do you have? i think i only have the first edition..

7th impression

[jmac]

One tid bit I'll add - if you are running a v8 - don't bother with a h pipe, run an x pipe, and be done with it. On the minus side, it tends to quieten the exhaust a bit, on the plus, it gives the best gain (and it's more in the mid range and across a wide rpm range than some focussed gain in peak power).

In terms of header design, I've found (in what experience I have, which isn't massive by racing standards) that all the theory in the world is good, but you'll still have to 'suck it and see' the more oddball the engine is in terms of port and or bore/stroke/rod length design and other factors, the more you have to experiment. Something like a sbchev - the work has been done in spades.

Are any of these books floating around as pdf files/torrents?

[XEFalconUte]

Not the book your after but this might be interesting for anyone building exhaust systems, search for the torrent:

Working with Tubing (imburne).avi.torrent

have fun

Simon

[sssgtr]

FYI for anyone wanting to buy Scientific Design of Intake and Exhaust Systems through Amazon...don't. They can't fucking source the book at all.

Ended up getting it from pitstop.net.au for $63 incl express delivery, it's on sale at the moment.

That avi "working with tubing" is quite good.

[RotorBoy]

Simon,

Do you still have pipemax?
I'm going to be making a set of pipes for my L98 soon, would you be able to run the numbers if I give you all the details?

Cheers
Peter