GM faces rapid collapse without aid

[2rismo]

Yeah unfortunately in the real world it doesnt work like that, but you just keep believing that crackpot right-wing ideology :knock:

x2

[Beavis]

If it were up to me all unions would be immediately abolished, if you are a shit worker or have no skills then you should be paid fuck all for your labour. Its all about productivity. Contrary to socialist belief, productive workers are valued by companies and competition for labour will set appropriate wage levels without the inefficiencies introduced by unionism. UAW have bled GM dry for decades.

While I agree with you that the UAW has bled the big three dry, your generalization about labor and its value to employers is incredibly simplistic (and bordering on naive).

[MartyHusseinXF]

Companies if given half a chance will and do rape the shit out of their employees, especially in semi-skilled roles or roles where there is lots of supply of appropriate workers.

Unions have their place but they need to be balanced (hey, like most things).

[Rezz]

Ban all imports!!!!

[kabab]

90+% of car buyers would never ever have even contemplated looking at a car forum...so its hardly a reflection on society as a whole. There are plenty of people in the states who will only buy american, a much bigger percentage of the population than those here who would only buy Australian.

I dunno Edo,

They may not be active forum users in general population but i recon 99% of people use google. When you google for products more often then not you get many hits on forums with people expressing their experience with a product and if its on a forum its normally negative.

[2rismo]

[poid]

Yeah unfortunately in the real world it doesnt work like that, but you just keep believing that crackpot right-wing ideology :knock:

Is that right? Explain then how the non-union workers working for the likes of Toyota, Honda, BMW in the US are being exploited?

Oh, they arent. They are being paid a fair wage with fair benefits.

How about other industries where non-union labour is prevalent? Feel free to come up with examples to back yourself here cos I dont think there are many relevant examples.

Unions used to serve a purpose when labour was not as mobile and there was very little differentiation between employees. Thats no longer the case. All it does now is increase the costs of employees that are not very productive and divert labour from more productive uses by discouraging up-skilling and encouraging less-skilled labour.

[out_in_front]

Look at how many people have HR people to try and keep employees happy - usually it is worth paying a bit more to stop staff turnover, as that costs more in the long term. Most employers know that if they pay peanuts they get monkeys - only thing is - sometimes you do only need monkeys, and they should be getting paid peanuts, if they are smart enough to get out and get a better job - they will.

[rj_astra]

More info : http://blogs.motortrend.com/6386706/...ske/index.html
http://blogs.motortrend.com/6382903/...rst/index.html


Seems like the republicans are using this issue to give the UAW Cerberus a kicking. Meanwhile GM has ended up the piggy in the middle.

If it does go ahead poor GM could be lumbered with some extremely high fleet economy figures to meet. I suppose if they do pull it off you could see GM so far ahead of the crowd with regards fuel efficient cars its not funny.

[Captain_Slow]

Is that right? Explain then how the non-union workers working for the likes of Toyota, Honda, BMW in the US are being exploited?

Oh, they arent. They are being paid a fair wage with fair benefits.

Of course they are, they're working in an industry where the union has negotiated pretty good terms and conditions for years - if the non union firms don't keep up the employees will either (a) go and get jobs with the union firms or (b) unionise!

[2rismo]

Is that right? Explain then how the non-union workers working for the likes of Toyota, Honda, BMW in the US are being exploited?

Oh, they arent. They are being paid a fair wage with fair benefits.

The temporary labour at US domestic Toyota facilities have been taken for a ride and paid UNfairly on a number of occasions. To the best of my knowledge, none of the Honda plants are unionised but this may soon change for the same reasons as Toyota. I honestly don't know about BMW's manufacturing plants in Nth America but a heap of their dealerships (Mercedes too if it matters) are unionised and 'Locals' are becoming more and more common in relation to BMW.

The biggest complaint amongst the workers of these firms is that more and more temporary labour is being employed at significantly lower rates of pay than the permanent employee's and with things like leave and retirement benefits not guaranteed.

How that equates to "...being paid a fair wage with fair benefits..." is truly beyond me.

[hamish]

If it were up to me all unions would be immediately abolished, if you are a shit worker or have no skills then you should be paid fuck all for your labour. Its all about productivity. Contrary to socialist belief, productive workers are valued by companies and competition for labour will set appropriate wage levels without the inefficiencies introduced by unionism. UAW have bled GM dry for decades.

We had that sort of situation back in the 1800s, which is what led to the rise of unionism, because contrary to your economic rationalist ideology, heaps of employers will exploit their position of power and fuck over even the best of their workers, given unfettered control. Things like the 40hr week, safe working conditions & the end of child labour were the result of union action, would you like to scrap all of those things as well, because they would all go with the complete demise of unions.

[out_in_front]

We had that sort of situation back in the 1800s, which is what led to the rise of unionism, because contrary to your economic rationalist ideology, heaps of employers will exploit their position of power and fuck over even the best of their workers, given unfettered control. Things like the 40hr week, safe working conditions & the end of child labour were the result of union action, would you like to scrap all of those things as well, because they would all go with the complete demise of unions.

Also back then democracy was a interesting idea...

These days we have laws that legislate most of these things now, the unions have already served their purpose. Now the government has to legislate appropriately for any changes that are waranted by the public - else they get voted out, that is the new way to do it.

Also instead of having 3 employers to choose from in the country there are several thousand in each city / town, the economic climate is completely different. It is time to admit that unions do not have much positive left to give - it is probably time to let them go and start up a movement later if it is ever required.

[2rismo]

Fuck, mate. I don't even know where to start picking apart that delusional crud.

[saa]

*** Senate Republicans and Democrats were unable to reach an agreement on a bailout plan for US automakers. majority leader Harry Reid said.


thats the news going around the market just now.
oz index dropped about 30 points on it