GM faces rapid collapse without aid

[lotec]

boom baby

[TonyJZX]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2008...-negotiations/

there it is

how much worse can it get

[Ustasa]

Did you guys hear about Vauxhall? 9 months leave for workers and 30% pay.

Christmas will be bleak for many around the world.

[Zac]

Christmas might be OK, however I am told it will hit harder here in the UK come March/April when people's savings start to run out and they still have no new employment.

[padey]

Privatise the profits and socialise the losses.

I need to run a business like that...

[Captain_Slow]

Looks like GM's donations to the Republican Party over the years have paid off nicely then...

(Of course, these guys had no trouble bailing out their finance sector spiv mates....but to hell with an industry that makes something!)

[electronik]

The Prius aint rockin nothing at the moment, hybrid sales have been down about 50% month on month for the past 3 months since the national average gas price fell to $1.75/gal. What America should have done was enact a gas tax when they had the chance (like every other country) to recoup all this tax payer money they are about to spend. Bail out the big three with pump money from people who have gas guzzlers already. Nobody would have complained if gas only dropped a buck from $4 to $3. But now that it's so cheap, hybrids are sitting everywhere unsold, everybody's pissed at the government for pinching their pennies in one bulk sum, and nobody's mindset is changing at all about gas guzzling Tonka trucks when it only costs $25 to fill your tank.

I believe the slump in sales more has to do with the credit crunch than with the decline in fuel prices, though I would not discount the effect of the latter's factor either.

[out_in_front]

yep - looks like Toyota will be posting a loss this quarter too....

[EfiOz]

I believe the slump in sales more has to do with the credit crunch than with the decline in fuel prices, though I would not discount the effect of the latter's factor either.

Correct. Lo doc/no doc car loans have disappeared so your average semi employed redneck suddenly can't pay for that new pick up he's convinced himself he needs.

Instant sales implosion.

[fury]

Not surprisingly this is the angle of this article, consumer credit very hard to come by, hence very few can buy anyhow:

http://money.cnn.com/2008/12/17/auto...ion=2008121722

Chrysler to shut down production for a whole month, sounds like the 46,000 employees only get unemployment benefits plus whatever Chrysler can afford to pay them.. so no full pay.

Not looking too good for employees right now.

[1uz-zte]

Chrysler have been releasing shit for years. The Crossfire? And that god damn 4wd heap that getting around in Au now. It's obvious Chrysler and most of the other US car makers were going to be in the shit and the employees have only themselves to blame for staying employed by those companies.

[TonyJZX]

http://www.blueovalforums.com/forums...pic=28401&st=0

lol x 15 billion

[EfiOz]

They should let these monoliths go under. The world will be a better place for it.

I fail to see how 26 billion odd dollars is going to fix this.

[Captain_Slow]

They should let these monoliths go under. The world will be a better place for it.

US car industry goes out of business = millions of jobs lost in the US = mega-recession. Explain how the world will be a better place for it?

[EfiOz]

Propping them up with bailouts will be a very short term solution. At the rate they are burning through cash, this amount of money will only keep them afloat for a year or two, tops.

And where is the money coming from? The US Treasury hasn't got a dime, it's just running the printing press day and night. Sounds like easy money until that money isn't worth anything due to inflation.

The Yanks have now spent 2,500 trillion on bailouts. That's over 21/2 Iraq invasions. In the space of three months. And they were broke before anyone mentioned the word bailout.

So what good is a job if what you're being paid won't cover the food and power bill?

And do you really believe these companies will turn themselves around in 12 months?

Cars will still be built and bought. Many of those losing jobs will find employment at Honda, Toyota, etc. And it's really only GM that's at critical risk here. The long term employee entitlements are dragging them under in the US no matter what they do. They also suffer from a fragmented product line (too many models) although they could be made to work with some massive restructuring due to the strength of their world product. But none of that will happen unless they are shocked into it.

Chrysler is under a lot of pressure and should probably have gone to the scrapyard years ago anyway (fantasy land product line, yesterdays technology, etc). I'll probably be linched in this forum for saying it but the world needs a pushrod 8L V10 like it needs another hole in the ozone. And the white good models they sell are not much better. Pushrod 4L straight six Jeeps have only just been phased out. Jeebus, even the friggin' Indian Mahindra's are better off than that.

But Ford could easily ride this out. They have decent world product to fall back on. They're lining up at the moment as they can see an easy way out through bailout money that won't mean disrupting th estatus quo too much.

The lobbyists mission is get a hold of the money to see us through 2009/10. By that stage, oil will have been below USD50 a barrel for over a year and they would have all forgotten who Al Gore is.

So for all you good little capitalists out there. Let the market do it's job for once and stop whining to the Gumbyment to fix all the troubles in the world when it goes wrong. We've been through decades of capitalist/corporate/fascist fantasy land and now we're asking for some wierd capitalist/socialst fantasy where every one has a job and real estate never looses value?

Here endeth the rant.

n.b. red wine hangovers make me grumpy.