GM faces rapid collapse without aid

[MartyHusseinXF]

They aren't broke until they decomission the massive nuclear powered aircraft carrier groups they have.

[Captain_Slow]

Keynesian economics??

Largely yes, although monetarism has a part to play as well - you need to have your hands on both the fiscal and monetary levers IMHO

[Ustasa]

The yanks were broke 30 years ago. Like MartyXF said as long as their carrier groups keep steaming along, no one will have the balls to say no to them (just yet). The only economy in the world backed not by dollars, but by aircraft carriers and M1 Abrams tanks.

Yet like all great empires, their time will come to an end. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end for the US as a hegemony. Whether you count that as a blessing or a curse is another story...

[Dave]

The yanks were broke 30 years ago. Like MartyXF said as long as their carrier groups keep steaming along, no one will have the balls to say no to them (just yet). The only economy in the world backed not by dollars, but by aircraft carriers and M1 Abrams tanks.

Yet like all great empires, their time will come to an end. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end for the US as a hegemony. Whether you count that as a blessing or a curse is another story...

pinko much?

[Captain_Slow]

Yet like all great empires, their time will come to an end. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end for the US as a hegemony. Whether you count that as a blessing or a curse is another story...

To be replaced by what - China? Yep, that will be a great improvement.

[EfiOz]

Yet like all great empires, their time will come to an end. I believe we are seeing the beginning of the end for the US as a hegemony. Whether you count that as a blessing or a curse is another story...

It's a commonly misguided notion to name the US as the hegemony of the moment. The reality lies on the other side of the Atlantic.

Has for centuries.

[2rismo]

It's a commonly misguided notion to name the US as the hegemony of the moment. The reality lies on the other side of the Atlantic.

Has for centuries.

Fucking Wales! I knew it!!!11

[jampac]

I reckon if you take away homes and pickups from your general Americans, America wouldn't exist as we know it. Homes are already been taken away, their pickups are next.

[Ustasa]

pinko much?

Nope. Realist.

[Ustasa]

It's a commonly misguided notion to name the US as the hegemony of the moment. The reality lies on the other side of the Atlantic.

Has for centuries.

Thier bombs, bullets and bodies. They were doing the dying and crying after WW2, so yeah, I'd give them the credit for running the show.

As for the European cabal and their sneaky doings, it's like being a actor that nobody knows. What's the point? But, I do take your point. Interestingly, note how the Euro$ has picked up recently as well.

When US rappers demand to be paid in Euro's then something must be going on.

[da9jeff]

whats all this about?^^

[Zac]

I only know yanky rappers for their vanity and narcissism not their financial wisdom. They'd likely choose to be paid in euros because it's 'cooler' to be associated with.

Don't discount the Saudis that own so much of the NYSE, although they could be overrun by the Chinese before they get their time.

[Ze]

They're worth it right now because of how fucked up the economy is. In 5 years time, when things are a bit more stable, when other work opportunities exist, when other manufacturers are in a position to make capital investment, maybe less so.

The problem is that time never comes with the US. In 5 years time they'll still be fucked.

You've got to look at how US society is structured to properly understand the impacts. When things turn the wrong way they go backwards real fast and so at least some bailouts become the lesser of two equals.

And yes, I agree, providing a base level of social services through such an inefficient and indirect tool as these bailouts is a monumentally stupid idea. Good luck convincing them of that though, when we talked about medicare even though I paid a fraction of what they paid for health care and got a much better service they still thought I was an idiot for suggesting that maybe our system works better.

I know how US society works and if they keep trying to patch and bluff their way through it , the problem won't be fixed. Nobody wants to admit they fucked up though or admit it's a long term problem.

Look at how well it has worked with the financial sector bailout already. No ones lending anything and their has been massive layoffs. Citigroup dumped 50,000 in one hit.

Of course it hasn't worked because the problem wasn't a lack of money in the system but rather a lack of confidence and trust between people in the system , so all the bailouts did was allow people to dump some of their risky crap on the govt , then they hunkered down so they wouldn't get anybody elses crap.

Until the Chinese decide to cash them in to "prime" their own economy. An economy who's growth rate is already starting to tank since Walmart aren't buying millions of lawn chairs this year.

Once they start churning money out again to prop up these bonds the combined effect with the trillions in bailouts (Forbes puts it at over USD4t) AND the cost of keeping a hundred thousand or so troops in the ME will be catastrophic for the USD. The smart money says they will devlaue by as much as 75% over the next 3-4 years.

I can't imagine the chinks being happy when that debt goes to shit , although the chinks are playing a long game with that debt and will use it to greatly influence USA foreign and trade policy.

I'm not anti-US, either. I just think what America is meant to be and what it is are two disappointingly opposite situations

Yep there are a quite a lot of good things/principles in the US but there is also a whole lot of hype and smoke and mirrors.

There is no happy ending with a tool like "Helicoptor Ben" in charge of the printing press.

I especially love this pearler

"But the U.S. government has a technology, called a printing press (or, today, its electronic equivalent), that allows it to produce as many U.S. dollars as it wishes at essentially no cost. By increasing the number of U.S. dollars in circulation, or even by credibly threatening to do so, the U.S. government can also reduce the value of a dollar in terms of goods and services, which is equivalent to raising the prices in dollars of those goods and services. We conclude that, under a paper-money system, a determined government can always generate higher spending and hence positive inflation. "

Holy shit.

I suppose this fuckwit hasn't heard about exchange rates....

That is a pearler though.

A bit of reality though, while the US economy is struggling atm it's still ~ 3 times the size of the next largest national economy. To say they have nothing to back their bonds is a bit silly and yes, smacks of an anti american bias coming through.

Yes and how much debt does the US have? sure they have a huge cash flow but I truly wonder how much debt they have , not just the debt we know about it but the debt we don't that is locked up in private deals and covenants on assets.

I'm talking public and private debt here.

That they should have been doing the opposite for the last 4 years doesn't change what they should be doing now.

Actually it does , the problem is although the US has for the past 8 years or so been putting the icing on the cake , the cake has taken decades to make.

You don't just chuck a gasket in a motor when the rest of it is fucked. You fix the problems properly.

[TonyJZX]

didn't they say the same thing about George Bush Snr.

and then Clinton got in and guess what - suddenly they had a surplus

[MartyHusseinXF]

As long as the OIL is still sold in USD, having a large debt figure is no where near as big a problem as some of you make out.

Thats what the carrier groups are for by the way - to ensure that its USD.