Andra is fucked

[takai]

Isn't there also design clashes between a CAMS-compliant cage and an ANDRA one? So someone with a car than can run 10s but also runs circuit is fucked because they have to choose one or the other? Or can you make a cage that complies to both?

I am all for safety, but everyone's got their own ideas on safety these days....

Yeah, CAMS and ANDRA compliant cages are different.
Ive been at T&T with a fully CAMS compliant sports sedan, with full cage and half spaceframed chassis, that happily did a 10.4 and was sent home because the cage wasnt exactly to ANDRA spec.

[Supercrown]

The ANDRA tech book is a fucking joke.

Spelling mistakes, grammatical errors, diagram mistakes etc etc.

Looks like it's been put together by pre-schoolers.

As an engineering reference document it's disgraceful.

[Mr Ed]

When was the last time youve ever seen a safety rule relaxed in ANYTHING?

This idea is that safety standards increase over time, not remain constant and certainly not decrease. If cars are safer today than they were 40yrs ago, sweet.

If you take drag racing seriously enough that you either:
a) Spent a fair bit of time and effort building your own car and got it to a level where it can run 10s
b) Went and spent a fuckload on a car thats capable of running 10s straight out of the wrapper
or
c) Spent fuck all time putting a stupidly big engine in a stupidly small car

Those in groups A and B can easier justify fitting a proper cage because if the cost is negligible compared to the benefit they gain by having it and isnt a huge amount extra over what theyve spent.

Group C is mad bastard who needs a cage because he is in serious risk of dying.

Out of these 3 groups the only group that may have a problem is group A, because their car is often their only car however as has been said you can run a bolt in cage for 10s, just not for 9s. A 9s street car is really a bit silly anyway.

Regardless, the big problem with cages being that you cant run a proper cage in a street car, no matter how much padding/removal of rear seats/etc.....in reality the problem here lies with the DOT, not ANDRA.

Yes ANDRA has alot of classes that might be hard to keep track of...but go find someone that holds the record in some obscure class and ask him if he thinks the class should be scrapped. Fact is, the more classes there are, the more records there are up for grabs. The better your chance of running a record breaking run, the more likely you will be to compete which will mean greater numbers in total. I dont see the problem here.

Its an imperfect system designed to keep the masses happy and like any big system theres going to be a few things that piss alot of people off from time to time. Find a specific solution to a problem that doesnt just create another problem somewhere else, submit it to them properly and Im sure theyd be happy to listen to you.

[Mr Ed]

Yeah, CAMS and ANDRA compliant cages are different.
Ive been at T&T with a fully CAMS compliant sports sedan, with full cage and half spaceframed chassis, that happily did a 10.4 and was sent home because the cage wasnt exactly to ANDRA spec.

I agree that problems like this suck, but seriously, what is the point in running a sports sedan at the drags multiple times? The suspension/etc isnt going to be setup for the drags, youre not going to be changing the power levels all that much.....Im guessing that run was done for shits and giggles just to see how it would go?

[sware]

Those in groups A and B can easier justify fitting a proper cage because if the cost is negligible compared to the benefit they gain by having it and isnt a huge amount extra over what theyve spent.

The cost isn't the issue.

From memory (and I don't have my rule book with me right now), the 4 point cage needed for running under 10.99 requires that the main hoop be welded into the car. In my case, that means I lose the use of my backseats which is a huge pain in the arse, not to mention the registration hassles that come with having a cage.

I'd be happy to bolt a cage in to race if I could remove it for when the car is on the street.

[jizmstr0]

<13.00
4.2.4Tailshaft loop

<12.00
4.8.1: batteries, Need battery isolation switch that is operable from outside vehicle and marked by blue triangle.
4.10.11: harnesses: 4 point harness
4.10.3: Super Street Licence.



<11.00
4.1.2.2: steel or aluminium harmonic balancer or scatter shield
4.4.7.1: roll cage (street rego. cars with fixed steel roof and unmodified monocoque
construction and also less than 140mph), single rollover hoop covering the full width of the
driver's compartment with two bolted backstays and a bolted side intrusion bar.
4.4.7.1: roll cage (all other sedans), 6 point cage. Mesh or net required to retain driver's limbs in place.
4.5.3: wheel studs, must use open ended wheel nuts.
4.6.2: where arm restraints not used, a ribbon type window net must be used.
4.9.10: tech inspection, required every 2 years.
4.10.3: licences, Unlimited licence required (includes medical).
4.10.10: protective clothing, driving suit meeting SFI 3.2A/5 or higher, FIA Norme 1986 or FIA Norme 8856-2000. Fire resistant gloves, shoes & socks.



<10.00
4.2.1.1: auto protecion, need approved ballistic blanket or shield (or if transbrake is
used).
4.2.6: manual cars flywheel shields, Steel or titanium bellhousing or shield. Shield must
attach to chassis not engine.
4.4.7.1: roll cage, 6 point cage with removable side intrusion bars.


>130mph
4.10.11: harnesses, 5 point harness

>140mph
4.4.6: single parachute required.

That is form 08 book though so may have changed?

Point is that it isn't just the cage for a 10 second car, it's all the other little things like a medical, fancy underpants and a $500(ish) per year license. All adds up.

[takai]

I agree that problems like this suck, but seriously, what is the point in running a sports sedan at the drags multiple times? The suspension/etc isnt going to be setup for the drags, youre not going to be changing the power levels all that much.....Im guessing that run was done for shits and giggles just to see how it would go?

The point is though that despite the car being perfectly safe on the track it was banned. For stupid things too.
Oh yeah, and we were at the track to test and figure out how to launch the savage pig of a thing. It may not have been designed for drag racing, but the testing time would have been VERY useful. Not to mention that the entrance fee had been paid. $220 for a single run is exorbitant.

[Mr Ed]

The cost isn't the issue.

From memory (and I don't have my rule book with me right now), the 4 point cage needed for running under 10.99 requires that the main hoop be welded into the car. In my case, that means I lose the use of my backseats which is a huge pain in the arse, not to mention the registration hassles that come with having a cage.

I'd be happy to bolt a cage in to race if I could remove it for when the car is on the street.

Yeah I was basing that comment on someone else saying for a 10s pass you only need a bolt in cage.

[Mr Ed]

The point is though that despite the car being perfectly safe on the track it was banned. For stupid things too.
Oh yeah, and we were at the track to test and figure out how to launch the savage pig of a thing. It may not have been designed for drag racing, but the testing time would have been VERY useful. Not to mention that the entrance fee had been paid. $220 for a single run is exorbitant.

I would have thought youd test that sort of thing on a circuit, and test'n'tune at Willowbank used to be $36 last time I went there, and that included entry for 2 people.

While Im not defending differing ANDRA/CAMS laws at all, I think the discrepancies are ridiculous....the problems are often a case of a car designed for a specific use being used for a different use.

Silly point which Im sure youre aware of....if they were only testing launch methods....why not keep in it till past the 60' marker and then ease off to save the car?

[takai]

Because for the first run we wanted to see how fast it coudl actually go.

Oh yeah, and the pointless pedantic thing which we needed was open ended wheelnuts (and probably a licence too, but we were booted for the wheelnuts)... Like FFS are they goign to make ANY difference?

[Mr Ed]

I think that rule is just so they know you havent got long wheel studs and shallow wheel nuts that stop you from doing the wheels up properly. Simple thing to fix if youre aware of the rules but easy to get caught on if youre not.

[TJ]

I think Danny Vahoumis said it best.

[BigMuz]

I think Danny Vahoumis said it best.

??

[_Marc_]

??

I assume he is reffering to this gem of inspiration

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuQ74G-AUbw

[Andrew Bolt]

I suspect TJ is referring to this intellectual giant...