School me on Diesels

[Dr Felix Wankel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVEBX5QxmyQ&NR=1

If you get one make it do this

[Spoonfed]

I just assumed diesel is the smokers choice? lol. Though some do use the late model TD DI stuff for decent towing etc, which is fair enough with limited other options sometimes available, others though I swear is just a euro cafe latte sipping fad car choice.

I didn't realise 5000km service intervals were the norm, I always thought they were longer than petrol due to the fuel being highly lubricating. I guess being so dirty though it destroys the oil quicker?

[2JZR31]

I checked on the diesel has more torque myth and found the V6 petrol hilux has more torque than the 3L turbo diesel. The Nissan Navara V6 also has significantly more torque than the turbo diesel and just about DOUBLE the power.

So besides economy, petrols tow heaps better too. How can an engine with less torque and MUCH less power tow better? Who started this bullshit myth? I hear people say "well I cant even tell the load is there" when towing with a diesel. But thats just because the diesel has no noticeable feeling of acceleration to begin with. If you actually timed the acceleration it would tell a different story.

I don't even dislike diesels but there is a lot of bullshit out there.

[Spoonfed]

They make good torque down low (well good ones do) as they run small turbos to boost quick.

In saying that Have driven 4.0 v6 luxes, TD's, 3.5 rodeos etc and I think the 4.0 petrol lux with 5 speed auto would be the pick if i was towing. Put it on injected LPG (if driven alot) and it's all win with less babies dying n shit.

[thechuckster]

I didn't realise 5000km service intervals were the norm, I always thought they were longer than petrol due to the fuel being highly lubricating. I guess being so dirty though it destroys the oil quicker?

it's the soot/particles from combustion. The additives keep it in suspension, it either clogs up the filter or more importantly clags up the rings and the wear faces on bearing surfaces. It obviously affects the lubricating qualities of the oil.

[takai]

I checked on the diesel has more torque myth and found the V6 petrol hilux has more torque than the 3L turbo diesel. The Nissan Navara V6 also has significantly more torque than the turbo diesel and just about DOUBLE the power.

So besides economy, petrols tow heaps better too. How can an engine with less torque and MUCH less power tow better? Who started this bullshit myth? I hear people say "well I cant even tell the load is there" when towing with a diesel. But thats just because the diesel has no noticeable feeling of acceleration to begin with. If you actually timed the acceleration it would tell a different story.

I don't even dislike diesels but there is a lot of bullshit out there.

Older diesels have tons more torque than the older petrols. That seems to be the reverse in the current system of massive capacity petrols.

[devo]

not sure now but last time I had to replace a injector pump on an old (18 years at the time) toyota diesel I got a very pleasant surprise at the price

[takai]

I owned a 5LE-non-turbo 2WD twin cab. Despite being at the end of the period for this motor, it was still not cheap on fuel use - pretty much the same economy regardless of the population in the cabin. The 4WD lux of the same era is even harder on fuel.

Engines are bullet proof if you change the oil every 5k, filter every 10k, use toyota red coolant and change the fuel filter every 100k. Glow plugs will eventually carbon up but they're cheap and a handy cold-start solution is to give them two goes when cold starting in winter. They will last longer than the timing belt. Timing chain is a belt/tensioner/seal kit every 120k and easy to do once you've got all the belts/shit away from the front of the motor.

Cool, good to know. Seems that the servicing is relatively easy, the only big ticket item i can find on them is the $1800 worth of injector pump. 1UZs are barely more than that

If you do constantly run it hot/hard, you'll eventually get cracks between combustion chambers and/or valve seats and coolant gallery but it takes a lot of stupidity to get the head that rooted. If you manage to do this, a reco head+gasket kit is an off-the-shelf job starting from ~$1.8k but are unlikely to face this risk until the 300k+ mark.

Yeah, looking at ones with about 200,000km on the clock as thats what seems to be available. So getting up there.

The NA 5LE has an annoyingly narrow rpm band (~2.5-2.9k) of useful towing torque (turbo option will obviously spread this out) and to get a decent tow rating, you'll have an arse-pounding ride even if you go 4WD. Even if you get the 4-door cabin, the rides is very ordinary. You also loose a lot of tray capacity/rating with the bigger cabin.

The lack of tray space is ok, the 4 seats is quite useful, and TBH if i wasnt looking for 4 seats i would already have a BA Ute.

I found the gearing of the 2WD NA ute had the motor doing around 2.8k at 100kph with the motor well out of puff (and making far too much noise) at 3.5k. It really could have done with a taller diff. Best highway-only millage without a trailer was ~700k from a full tank. As soon as you encounter traffic, hills or suburbia that will plummet down by up to ~200k.

Thats still around 10L/100km right? Seems pretty good to me, the Supra does around 12-13L/100km on 98RON on a VERY good day, ive managed to get it up to 24L/100km when im up it.

I'd seriously consider a 1KZTE (or even better, a 1KD-powered) hilux or prado if you are going down the oil-burning route. For improved fuel consumption and power output they are a leap ahead of the L motors. If you stick with the 5LE/5LTE, use another car as a daily driver and keep the ute for parts hunting, fishing and towing duties only.

Yeah, the cheapest non 3RZ or 5L powered Hilux is almost 5k more than i want to spend. So they are pretty much out of the question. Plus i think the 1KZ-TE TD only came in the 4WDs anyway, and im after the 2WD.
On the plus side i dont tend to drive whatever car i have much anyway, it generally gets used maybe once or twice a week and maybe once on weekends, plus the ute would do a few specialist outings. But realistically my total usage might be a tank of fuel a month....

Damo and Rowds went to see the Hilux in question, and im waiting on photos from them before i go any further.

[2JZR31]

Older diesels have tons more torque than the older petrols. That seems to be the reverse in the current system of massive capacity petrols.

Yeah many old 4x4 petrol motors were heaps of shit in the age of carbies and pushrods. I will admit that. However my HiLux comparison was comparing 4.0 NA petrol to a Turboed 3.0 diesel. If you work out the effective capacity of the turboed 3.0 you will find its more than 4.0. The deisel HiLux makes 114Nm per liter. An XR6T makes 133Nm/L. A Renault Laguna petrol makes 130Nm/L.

2001 Hilux 3.0 Diesel NA 66 Nm/L. 2001 Hilux 2.7 petrol 90Nm/L. Thats right the 2.7 petrol 3RZ makes 235NM and the larger 3.0 5L-E diesel makes only 200Nm. So in todays world and for some time, diesels do not make more torque than petrols and its not capacity related.

Diesels make more torque than petrols = Myth busted.

At best they are similar. I just randomly picked cars on redbook. I am sure there are better examples of diesels making more torque but the fact is they are not somehow magically more torquey than petrols in general these days. Diesels also seem to run more boost than petrols from the factory.

Yes I have too much time on my hands.

[takai]

Yeah, thats with todays engines. The engine option im looking at are the 5L-E (97 PS (71 kW) at 4,000 rpm with 192 N·m (142 ft·lb) of torque at 2,400 rpm) and it was built to compare to the 22R-E (105 hp (78 kW) at 4,800 rpm and 137 ft·lbf (185 N·m) at 2,800 rpm.)

Roughly the same, but i can tell you the 5L would be much nicer to tow with with all that nice torque down low.
The 3RZ is a bit of a different monster, more power and more torque, but its a lot higher in the power band, with peak torque up around the 4000rpm mark. When its loaded it gets thirsty too, wheras the 5L doesnt really seem to vary too much.

[2JZR31]

Yeah, thats with todays engines. The engine option im looking at are the 5L-E (97 PS (71 kW) at 4,000 rpm with 192 N·m (142 ft·lb) of torque at 2,400 rpm) and it was built to compare to the 22R-E (105 hp (78 kW) at 4,800 rpm and 137 ft·lbf (185 N·m) at 2,800 rpm.)

Roughly the same, but i can tell you the 5L would be much nicer to tow with with all that nice torque down low.
The 3RZ is a bit of a different monster, more power and more torque, but its a lot higher in the power band, with peak torque up around the 4000rpm mark. When its loaded it gets thirsty too, wheras the 5L doesnt really seem to vary too much.

I agree about the economy. In this case both engines have similar power and torque. I also agree the 5L-E would be nicer to tow with. But that is because you are comparing it to a petrol with 35% less capacity!!! If those 2 engines are all that is available I would go the diesel too. Is that the model that lost the V6? As the 3VZ-FE would tow pretty well.

[da9jeff]

2jzr31: your only talking about peak torque/hp, not about what rpm that torque and hp are made.

And economy is a big one, with our LR TDi disco (yeah yeah) normal usage is 10L/100km (highway or town, never matters), towing 1.5-2T that goes up to 13-14L/100km. Now you tell me with a straight face that a 3L+ petrol (ie v6 toyos, 4.0l coons, commos etc) wont almost double normal fuel use when towing.

[GTREA]

You guys for real?

Pathfinder 4.0
196kw @ 5600rpm
385nm @ 4000rpm

Pathfinder 2.5 td

140kw @ 4000rpm
450nm @ 2000rpm

Power delivery is where its at for towing

[rollin7]

my hyundai is diesel, i beat the hell out of it and the cunt wont break

they are great in traffic too, uses no fuel, and its pretty quick for a soccer mum 4x4

[tut]

my hyundai is diesel, i beat the hell out of it and the cunt wont break

they are great in traffic too, uses no fuel, and its pretty quick for a soccer mum 4x4

and you can hardly notice an entire load of fireworks on the roof.