School me on Diesels

[tut]

Yet no one seems to shout that down the diesel advocates since we don't really have an epidemic diesel pollution problem yet. Whilst I like diesel for everyday driving, I don't think I'd be jumping for one just yet given the soot and particulates that's makes it very hard to breathe when you're standing behind a running truck whilst trying to close the garage door behind. Who knows what damage to everybody's health if everyone was driving around in a diesel car.

Sure hybrids and EV aren't the silver bullet but at least it's one step in the right direction to getting rid of pollution from the tail pipe and moving it to a concentrated places such as a power station.

several times a year, belgium has a "smog warning", where all the speed limits are lowered from 120 to 90kph on the higway, as the smog concentrations are way up too high above sane/healthy levels.

is it a coincidence that belgium is the world leader in diesel car usage? nope.


the worst part is, those are the days you're sure to get caught doing anything above 90kph, even if you're driving a fully electrical car, you'll get busted.


i have to admit, though, belgium is a pretty densely populated country.










also, i can't stand it when people say how much better a diesel is compared to a petrol, when they're comparing commonrail turbo diesels with a 25yo 1.4 petrol shitbox.


hell, even a brand new TDI vs a brand new petrol isn't a proper comparison, as it's turbo vs na. of course power figures will be widely different.

[tut]

tut: no fun to drive? ever driven a dodge ram with cummins 5.9 (6bta) making 600+hp? gives a whole new meaning to "entertaining" wet road fishtailing a 3200kg truck through 3rd gear

i have not, as people get brutally arse raped if they drive anything over a 2.5 engine, petrol or diesel, don't matter.
unless they're a business, then it's uber cheap.

i'm getting dry raped in the arse with my 3.2, but a 5.9 would be raped with a rusty dull sword. all the way in, and twisted.
so no, i haven't.

being said, i can imagine a 5.9 petrol could be pretty fun to drive, too.

[2JZR31]

You guys for real?

Pathfinder 4.0
196kw @ 5600rpm
385nm @ 4000rpm

Pathfinder 2.5 td

140kw @ 4000rpm
450nm @ 2000rpm

Power delivery is where its at for towing

The figures I cam up with were real. I had no idea on what figures they made but in all the random cars I checked on redbook, the petrols were making more torque. However I did assume someone would find one where the diesel had more torque.

Granted that pathfinder TD really is a great diesel. I think it would tow well because not only does it have torque, it also has power. (unlike the others I found). So it would be a lot of win. I'm sure many Euros would be good too.

As for power delivery. I really cant see a 4.0 NA engine having a shit low RPM torque compared to a 2.5 TD. I drive 3.0 diesels every day (hilux and rodeo). The hilux is OK. But it still does have some lag. Over all its good though. But any 4.0 petrol I have driven has more go before the diesels turbo boosts up.

The Rodeo. It is the most gutless POS I have ever driven. Its downright dangerous to take off through intersections if you don't get the revs high enough. This is to the point of someone complaining to management as a safety risk.

If you are trying to tow 2000+kg boat with huge windage up a hill at 1300 rpm you really need to buy an auto as you can't drive. However when you get to a steep grade you will be fucked when your diesel runs out of power unlike the petrol which can rev if you know how to change gears.

I have been towing 2000kg + yachts and there is just no way an engine with fuck all power will tow it up a steep range without almost stopping even it it has torque. Preferably you want both. But the engine with the most power will get you further up the hill before you start crawling. Thats just a fact of physics. That Pathfinder with 140kw would do it great though I think, unlike its gutless competitors.

[millsi]

diesels are much better for towing no question. my 2x4 td hilux will tow the shit lux all day and average under 14L/100km. no hope in hell a petrol would get near that doing the same speeds.
plus the max torque in a td is often available from near idle to redline. unlike a petrol (na of course).

[millsi]

Takai, dont bother with the non turbo 5le. i towed 3 bikes from rocky to townsville and with a slight headwind it wouldnt do over 90kmh! the fuel econ was also woeful!

[I Wish]

How much do you want to tow again?

http://www.youtube.com/user/VYXtreme#p/u/1/IhzYx2WVj_c

[Dave]

diesel kicks arse, my navara uses fuck all fuel given I use a 2T car as a commuter, through city traffic. A petrol model would use an extra 5l per 100km minimum.

The great thing for towing and stop start work is that they are super efficient at accelerating, turbo spools early, no need to rev.

[thechuckster]

Takai, dont bother with the non turbo 5le. i towed 3 bikes from rocky to townsville and with a slight headwind it wouldnt do over 90kmh! the fuel econ was also woeful!

same experience here towing the MA61 and MZ11 - terrible fuel use and you had to drop out of 5th at the mere sight of an incline.

Am fairly sure the tank was over 65 litres so getting 500-550k around town is not cheap. You'll experience similar or worse figures towing a double-axle trailer+race car.

Also, rated capacity on my tray (style-side) was only 500kg and the dealer-fitted tow bar was rated fairly low - sorry can't remember it. Wilbo and I used it to shift various cars around Brisbane and we were probably over the rating of the bar once you took into account the massive weight of rental trailers.

When used for heavy moving duties, it was pretty disappointing. In hindsight, an older turbo model would have been a better outcome (I got an ex-Qfleet with ~30K on it).

If it's really just for towing shit or collecting bulk stuff, have you thought about a proper truck? I've got a mate in BNE who uses a Toyota Dyna that has a long & low tray on it. TA22 rally car fits on it as does the MZ11 if you drop the tailgate down 45 degrees. Cars are driven up on ramps.


edit: if you go the lux route (with 5LE), spend some decent coin on the rear suspension (front is torsion bar so shocks are all you can change) or at least change the seats to something vaguely comfortable, fit a left-food foot rest (essential for long drives), fit removable ladder-bars/racks in the tray so you can carry long shit. A nudge bar might also be a sensible accessory as there's fuck-all between the front trim and the radiator(s).

[Spoonfed]

diesels are much better for towing no question. my 2x4 td hilux will tow the shit lux all day and average under 14L/100km. no hope in hell a petrol would get near that doing the same speeds.
plus the max torque in a td is often available from near idle to redline. unlike a petrol (na of course).

But fag, the turbo petrol owned ripping that tree out of the ground that time where the turbo diesel couldn't lol *
This is important, because pulling out trees is what most people look for when buying a car

*negate the fact it was more the hilux's clutch wasn't up to the task. haha.


What's peoples thoughts on turbo LPG should be the new Diesel, this is Australia not europe! Oh wait frauds gone all TD on the territory now where they had an awd 4.0 turbo + lpg (possiblity) = cheaper to run, 11ty x faster/more fun with many more torques. :knock:

Public 'perception' is were it's at unfortunately. :wayned:

[takai]

Takai, dont bother with the non turbo 5le. i towed 3 bikes from rocky to townsville and with a slight headwind it wouldnt do over 90kmh! the fuel econ was also woeful!

same experience here towing the MA61 and MZ11 - terrible fuel use and you had to drop out of 5th at the mere sight of an incline.

Am fairly sure the tank was over 65 litres so getting 500-550k around town is not cheap. You'll experience similar or worse figures towing a double-axle trailer+race car.

Thats pretty contrary to what others have been telling me on other forums. Lots of people saying that a 5L-E in good nick will happily tow along the flat at decent speeds.
As for fuel consumption, i dug up the receipt from the 3RZ Hilux that i hired last year to drag the Sprinter around for a round, and it averaged out at about 18L/100km in a mix of city driving and some towing of the Sprinter out to Mallala and to a few workshops around the place.
Fuel consumption is all comparative. 550km/65L is only 11.5L/100km, which i think is pretty bloody good around town, diesel or no diesel.

Also, rated capacity on my tray (style-side) was only 500kg and the dealer-fitted tow bar was rated fairly low - sorry can't remember it. Wilbo and I used it to shift various cars around Brisbane and we were probably over the rating of the bar once you took into account the massive weight of rental trailers.

When used for heavy moving duties, it was pretty disappointing. In hindsight, an older turbo model would have been a better outcome (I got an ex-Qfleet with ~30K on it).

Yeah, 700 on the tray and 1800kg on the bar with this model. Yeah its slightly lower, but its towing a 900kg race car on a 300-350kg trailer. Its not exactly heavy. The older turbo models (N85s or N107s) are all 1500kg towing capacity, it doesnt get any better going backwards.

If it's really just for towing shit or collecting bulk stuff, have you thought about a proper truck? I've got a mate in BNE who uses a Toyota Dyna that has a long & low tray on it. TA22 rally car fits on it as does the MZ11 if you drop the tailgate down 45 degrees. Cars are driven up on ramps.

Nup, need it for taking bikes around as well. 4 seats is a requirement, not an option.

edit: if you go the lux route (with 5LE), spend some decent coin on the rear suspension (front is torsion bar so shocks are all you can change) or at least change the seats to something vaguely comfortable, fit a left-food foot rest (essential for long drives), fit removable ladder-bars/racks in the tray so you can carry long shit. A nudge bar might also be a sensible accessory as there's fuck-all between the front trim and the radiator(s).

Yeah, all of that is on the cards for whatever i get. The one up in Bathurst already has new shocks. And seats are a necessity (not sure what yet), as i have a dodgy back (ride comfort doesnt matter much, just the seat shape).

Also, with the noise, it seemed to me that 90% of the noise in the diesel was the bloody clutch fan at the front. How much could it be quietened down by simply fitting a pair of Subie electric fans and a fan switch to it?

[takai]

Oh and this is the petrol equivalent:http://www.carsales.com.au/all-cars/...=50&__Qpb=true

Big price difference though From a dealer, but still $3k more.

[Instigator]

LPG injection is apparently the go. Improves the burn rate of diesel so increase in power, torque and fuel economy.

http://www.d-gas.com.au/

~$4500 with government rebate.

[takai]

*choke* $4500... right.

[Supercrown]

Too bad the GQ/GU don't come in a crew cab/tray config -

(excepting abortions like this )

I've a had a really good look into the LPG augmentation systems - and they look the goods. Only reason I haven't done it on my TD42 GQ is time. EDIT - you can piece togther a system pretty easily - a gas research TB is a good way to deliver the additional gas progressively.

If you want to tow, my personal pick is TD + auto box. My patrol was originally a petrol, but the previous owner had it changed to a 4.2 diesel. This means it actually has the petrol converter in the gearbox, which is a few hundred RPM higher stall than if it was diesel from the beginning. The slightly sloppy converter means you can get away with a bigger turbo without the lag. Towing is awesome, and it actually gets about pretty damn well also.

Yes - oil changes are a bit more expensive (the TD42 for example has two oil filters and holds 10L of oil), but meh. The expense is offset by slightly lesser fuel bills. Running costs end up being pretty much the same.

[takai]

Yeah, i wouldnt mind a GQ dualcab, or even a 80series Dualcab. But alas.

I dont mind towing with a cog swapper, and around town it tends to be much nicer.