LPG dead?

[goose]

Obviously the biggest factor is the price of new installs.
It was $2100 for the mixer install on my VS Commodore last year. With the $1500 rebate the break even point is not too far out.
With the injected setups being >$3k for newer cars and the rebate down to $1000 I suspect break even point is longer than most new car buyers even keep their cars.

[Euroboost]

All the Diesel trucks out here run on Natural Gas, how hard would it be to convert a sedan/pickup/suv ?

CNG doesn't have the support infrastructure here. I'm not sure the only public CNG refill station in Canberra is still open, I'm guessing a simlar situation in the other cities. I heard some local mouthpiece say Canberra was the biggest user of CNG vehicles in Australia. Apart from ACTION's couple of dozen buses I can think of probably about a dozen vehicles running on CNG. And only 2 don't have any connection with ACTEW-AGL. The new home refueling units might address this but that won't help the issue of how much space the vehicle tanks need. It's really only suitable for large vans,trucks and buses.

[rj_astra]

It's really only suitable for large vans,trucks and buses.

... http://automobiles.honda.com/civic-natural-gas/

[Rorz de Puniet]

I fucking hate LPG. I can't believe anyone would pay to have it installed. Fucks up the car, you lose power, it adds weight, takes up space, smells bad, you have to line up with cabby's at the servo, the red sticker on the number plate looks gay, it's not much cheaper than petrol, you use more of it than petrol, it's expensive to install, takes forever to actually 'pay for itself' and by that time it's fucked your car up anyway.

pft, how many just call RACV/Q, NRMA?

Even if you call RACV, they still need a wheel/tyre to put on your car... they don't carry random spare wheels and tyres for people that don't feel the need to have one on board.

[Rorz de Puniet]

CNG doesn't have the support infrastructure here. I'm not sure the only public CNG refill station in Canberra is still open, I'm guessing a simlar situation in the other cities. I heard some local mouthpiece say Canberra was the biggest user of CNG vehicles in Australia. Apart from ACTION's couple of dozen buses I can think of probably about a dozen vehicles running on CNG. And only 2 don't have any connection with ACTEW-AGL. The new home refueling units might address this but that won't help the issue of how much space the vehicle tanks need. It's really only suitable for large vans,trucks and buses.

Don't all the govco buses run on natural gas? I know they do in Adelaide.

[Madhatr]

Even if you call RACV, they still need a wheel/tyre to put on your car... they don't carry random spare wheels and tyres for people that don't feel the need to have one on board.

Ive heard of people who they refused to come out to because they didn't have a spare that could be used (say, it was flat).

It's simple with LPG. It cost's too much now, forget about diesel, direct injection petrol engines are enough to kill off LPG. When you look at the kms you get with a tank of LPG, then double it to get the approx difference between a tank of petrol (ie, 1 tank petrol vs 2 lpg), you end up $15+ worse off with the LPG. So why bother at all? never going to make your money back off it, not even saving money each time you fill up. Margin is even greater when you compare it with diesel.

[TonyJZX]

The American Civics on home natural gas is a bit of even tougher proposition... thinking about how it would work here...

1. you need a compressor installed at your home but the good thing is your gas isn't subject to the Govt. excise... i do not know the fundamentals of town gas but i reckon it'd be a hell cheaper than anything else

2. the conversion is easily twice as expensive as LPG since its harder to compress the gas

3. you lose cockloads of power but since its Civic you're probably used to that


so work it out... i dont think you'd make out ahead as much as you'd think

[Spoonfed]

I fucking hate LPG. I can't believe anyone would pay to have it installed. Fucks up the car, you lose power, it adds weight, takes up space, smells bad, you have to line up with cabby's at the servo, the red sticker on the number plate looks gay, it's not much cheaper than petrol, you use more of it than petrol, it's expensive to install, takes forever to actually 'pay for itself' and by that time it's fucked your car up anyway.

LOL's, @ the troll ......... though not sure if serious??? WTF lol


Public perception plays a part too, as per the above (not that I think Rorz is actually being serious?) people have their mindset ideas on something, at that's fact.
EcoLPI coon is a good example that puts all the ideas based on old tech to rest (ie more power torque and fasts than petrol version).

The price cracking 90cpl certainly hasn't helped, but the kind Saudi's have said we can now sell Aussie gas for less than January's price (in the 60cpl zone), due to greedy cunts it just hasn't dropped that far yet. 76cpl is about Brissy atm. Still, factoring extra usage 'effective' 91cpl ULP is something I'm sure the masses dream of? I certainly don't complain paying 91CPL for 98 (ie RON needed to make power car makes on GAS). However with the price spike etc this will reduce peoples confidence in investing to save coin. The shit is still over priced though, they must make max profits on it verse other fuels.

The figures mentioned in the article I think are skewed. Before the recent release of the EcoLPI coon, there was a period where Fraud wasn't selling any new LPG cars. As they have very much so the big majority of this market, of cause it's going to look like none were sold. Standard media retards with zero research.

Peoples love for diesel now also is giving LPG a kick in the guts.

LPG is big in Korea, but we haven't seen anything imported from there yet. (There as talk years ago about LPG Hybrid Hyundai coming here, but it didn't). Market's probably to small for them to care/bother with.

Tank in the boot is the only negative consideration really, in wheel well isn't too bad a option with a space saver spare in the boot (or trailer/whatever if towing for added boot space), doesn't take up that much room to justify the sooking.

Over priced kits/installs also aren't helping, like other government incentive schemes, the price apparently jumped and has never come back down.

Installs and the payback time also can be too much for some, but anyone that does a fair bit of driving it really is quite quick, faster than the extra one pays for a diesel model for example.
Took me about 14-15months to pay off on of the most expensive LPi systems there are. Sadly at the same time extra hp seems to chew the tyres out quicker but haha.
Now saves me near $3000 a year with plenty of fasts/fun, so can't complain.


Ford & Holden with the Gas taxi's with dedicated models out now are hope, but then how long will they be around also.

[rj_astra]

so work it out... i dont think you'd make out ahead as much as you'd think

Think of the Civic CNG as an equivalent to a plug in EV. You fill it up at home every night and use it to commute daily. Looking at the economy figures it seems to get similar mileage as a petrol equivalent. I assume that home gas is much cheaper per "whatever the equivalent metric is" than petrol.
Apparently the range is 300km per tank

Being the USA you can be assured the owner would have another car in the household for longer trips etc.

[Rona]

EcoLPI coon is a good example that puts all the ideas based on old tech to rest (ie more power torque and fasts than petrol version).

If the Petrol I6 ran 12:1 compression and they tuned it to be run on purely 98ron fuel it'd make more power then the EcoLPi.

[260BC]

From a consumer's point of view the main problems are the cost of fuel, tank space and cost of conversion. This particularly impacts on smaller cars which are becoming increasingly popular now, more so because they are economical anyway.

Maybe women don't like gas either for other reasons?

[TonyJZX]

most people don't know about gas and think its for falcodores only

fuck, most people don't have a clue about diesel either

[Spoonfed]

If the Petrol I6 ran 12:1 compression and they tuned it to be run on purely 98ron fuel it'd make more power then the EcoLPi.

Why would they do that, who wants a falcon than runs only on 98? The statement is wrong in anycase, LPG has higher octane than 98 and can make more power.

The EcoLPI motor is tuned for a bit more low down grunt, ie see the specs

198kw @ 5000rpm vs 195kw at 6000rpm
409nm vs 391nm (both at 3250rpm).

Little doubt it can be tuned for more if they wanted.

[Rona]

Why would they do that, who wants a falcon than runs only on 98? The statement is wrong in anycase, LPG has higher octane than 98 and can make more power.

The EcoLPI motor is tuned for a bit more low down grunt, ie see the specs

198kw @ 5000rpm vs 195kw at 6000rpm
409nm vs 391nm (both at 3250rpm).

Little doubt it can be tuned for more if they wanted.

Because if we are comparing apples with apples you can't simply look at the LPG being the source of the power increase which it isn't. The motor is substantially different to the base petrol motor as it runs significantly higher compression which naturally is a result of the octane rating of the fuel allowing for it. If an LPG bottom end was used in the petrol head in say an NA XR6 and tuned to run on 98 ron fuel it'd certainly make more power then the EcoLPI motor.

Of course you'd have very little market for this motor as people are tight cunts and won't put 98 ron fuel in it and it is not available everywhere etc. What I'm getting at is if the LPI setup was simply put on the base motor it wouldn't have any extra power. Ford redesigned the motor/components to take advantage of the fuel being used which allowed them to extract more power.

[rj_astra]

fuck, most people don't have a clue about diesel either

I agree on that... people buy them based on L/100km alone yet never do the sums on total cost of ownership. They never do the kms to justify the initial extra outlay.