Merc for Stone Brothers Racing

[BeverlyHillsCop]

Take away the power steeting and turbos and they wouldn't have been as good. What's your point?

point was that whenever 4wd has been allowed in any touring car series, its dominated, killed the racing and eventually banned.... Ala Audi is Super touring.. once 4wd was banned, they went to FWD and were hopelessly slow... even slower than independants

not so sure on that Tony.... I would put my money on DJR Sierras beating them.... they were the most developed rs500 worldwide and even showed the poms how to do things and still in their own backyard as well...

[Momus]

I was working @ Shell HQ no 1 Spring Street during the Group A years and Tom Smith, Ross Brodie, Channel 7 and a few other parties were involved in adopting a formula that the Aussie racing fan wanted. Shell threw millions of $ in support of DJRHolden, Ford, Alfa, BMW and Nissan were all reading from the same Group A handbook.....Nissan obviously read it better.

I suppose you could say the same about the E30 M3 2.5 which was the only other car to win a round that year @ Lakeside....they were not allowed to run full euro spec wing package.

As for the current racing 28 cars are seperated by a few tenths during qualifying and it is effectively eroded by the end of the first lap.

I think the great Frank Gardner summed up V8SC well when he stated it was constipated.

What Series was that we wanted? Group C? I must have dozed off.
I remember Chanel No 7 having to pull low pans when they had a dozen cars on their grid...

Now look at what the fans really wanted. A full international quality series, a development series that is probably the third best tin top series in the world (after the DTM) and a 3rd (Shannon) and even 4th tier of V8X cars being run.
No one can afford to run a Sierra or Nissan properly as a historic car.

Lets face it the GT-R was an all out Sports or GT, designed and expressly, by Nissans frequent emissions, to trounce the 959 Porsche around the 'ring. It was a corrupt, cynical and unworthy homologation that bit everyone involved, especially the innocent, on the arse.
The RS500 was a bit of a beast too.. for different, almost opposite reasons. Narrow tracked, unstable and fragile- at least it was a passenger car.

[Rona]

No one can afford to run a Sierra or Nissan properly as a historic car.

Might want to tell that to Terry Ashwood with his fleet of Group A Nissans, running the GTR in demos due to it banned from competing when I was attending meets anyway as well as running the HR31 Coupe competitively. At the time he also had 1-2 cars on display at the meets as he'd just picked up the GIO GTR as well.

[TonyJZX]

i dont disagree with any of the above but surely they should of blocked these cars from the outset if thats the threat they represented

[Sturmovik]

I was working @ Shell HQ no 1 Spring Street during the Group A years and Tom Smith, Ross Brodie, Channel 7 and a few other parties were involved in adopting a formula that the Aussie racing fan wanted. Shell threw millions of $ in support of DJR
.

I seem to recall the money thrown at the GTRs was far greater than any of the others. Didnt each wheel cost $7k and were a use once, then throw away?

[Rona]

Talk of about a $700k build per car which was a lot of money back in the 90s. The Formula Holden they built for Skaife had a bullshit amount of coin spent on it too. GIO GTR has made 478awkw on 24psi so fairly stout for a motor now nearing 20+ years old. If they weren't restricted so much back in the day it'd be interesting to see what times they would have laid down lol.

[BeverlyHillsCop]

i dont disagree with any of the above but surely they should of blocked these cars from the outset if thats the threat they represented

Well they've learnt their lesson... 4WD is still banned in all major touring car championships. Nobody cared about changing the rules for Group A cos it died worldwide in 94 with the DTM being the last series to use Group A Rules.... The Skyline didnt have such success anywhere else in the world (My understanding was the R32 was never exported elsewhere in the world at that stage????)

Group A was dropped, Class 2 ( Super Touring) took over, and once more 4WD destroyed all from 96, be it BTCC, STC, STW,ASTC etc etc.. BTCC banned it after 97, STW changed the rules so works teams couldnt run the 4WD, only independants, and in the ASTC here they banned them at the end of 98...

[Camma]

Qualifying times within a bees dick should be expected with a field of quality drivers and with the current V8SC regs. With fuck all room for variation the shit usually becomes a procession. The reason TCM, Nc, Nb works is the vast diffences in how the lap times are made.

And yep last time I checked the Group A cars (Sierra's, Walkinshaws, GTRs) are still racing.

Group A certainly wasn't the answer but the current rules alienate a fuckload of non bogan motorsport fans. COTF will be better no doubt. Is it true they will have a 7500 rpm limit making it near on impossible for Nissan/Merc to make decent hp?

[Billzilla]

Is it true they will have a 7500 rpm limit making it near on impossible for Nissan/Merc to make decent hp?

True about the rev limit, not true about the power.
They should get it there very quickly if not right from the start. There's zero power disadvantage with 4V heads. They are larger and heavier though.

[gmh265]

They should get it there very quickly if not right from the start.

fairly unlikely. it will take them longer than that.

[Momus]

Might want to tell that to Terry Ashwood with his fleet of Group A Nissans, running the GTR in demos due to it banned from competing when I was attending meets anyway as well as running the HR31 Coupe competitively. At the time he also had 1-2 cars on display at the meets as he'd just picked up the GIO GTR as well.

Yes and full credit to them for keeping these important cars going but they are not racing them full bore there in the same way as MCM let alone V8X..

[Supashake]

What Series was that we wanted? Group C? I must have dozed off.
I remember Chanel No 7 having to pull low pans when they had a dozen cars on their grid...

Now look at what the fans really wanted. A full international quality series, a development series that is probably the third best tin top series in the world (after the DTM) and a 3rd (Shannon) and even 4th tier of V8X cars being run.
No one can afford to run a Sierra or Nissan properly as a historic car.

Lets face it the GT-R was an all out Sports or GT, designed and expressly, by Nissans frequent emissions, to trounce the 959 Porsche around the 'ring. It was a corrupt, cynical and unworthy homologation that bit everyone involved, especially the innocent, on the arse.
The RS500 was a bit of a beast too.. for different, almost opposite reasons. Narrow tracked, unstable and fragile- at least it was a passenger car.

All this from a guy that 100% supports a Sportscar (RX7) being fiddled in as a Touring car? Very One eyed of you.

[Smashed S15 Bloke]

Will the E-Class run a Watts linkage? Crompo will be in heaven!

[itsnotagsr]

Having recently been to MCM, I was blown away by the competitiveness in the classic and Grp A/C racing. Was fantastic to watch.

[Nafe]

Group Nb at MC was a standout. Mini vs Mustang for lap after lap.