Chevrolet Spark EV

[gmh265]

And also because eventually we will run out of fossils and you can generate electricity in millions of creative ways. :D

Millions might be a bit of an exaggeration don't you think?

[Soopy]

Because eventually we will run out of fossils? and you can generate electricity in millions* of creative ways?


* might be a slight exaggeration

Genuine question. Why are fossil fuels so necessary? I mean, doesn't an ICE just need something to go bang?

[Captiva Fan]

Genuine question. Why are fossil fuels so necessary? I mean, doesn't an ICE just need something to go bang?

Efficiency. Fossil fuels are about the most efficient energy-transport medium we have, and yet we can still only get about 25% of the energy out of 'em; that's why ethanol cars use a lot more fuel to produce the same end-result. An electric motor (with current tech at least) converts about 80% of the electricity's energy to movement.

[TonyJZX]

what can an ICE motor run on thats practical to make?

[Soopy]

what can an ICE motor run on thats practical to make?

Well, we could produce ethanol easily enough. Yes its not as efficient, but its cheap. Can anyone comment on its cleanliness?
I've always thought it was a relatively clean fuel?

It has to be cheaper then electric cars, and surely the range can't be any worse.

[Falc&Send]

Used cooking oil (reply to tripper)

[gmh265]

Well, we could produce ethanol easily enough. Yes its not as efficient, but its cheap. Can anyone comment on its cleanliness?
I've always thought it was a relatively clean fuel?

It has to be cheaper then electric cars, and surely the range can't be any worse.

I don't know the facts but surely it would take energy to produce said ethanol, at whatever efficiency, then to burn it in an ICE at ~%25 efficiency when you could just use the energy more directly in an EV?

[Soopy]

I don't know the facts but surely it would take energy to produce said ethanol, at whatever efficiency, then to burn it in an ICE at ~%25 efficiency when you could just use the energy more directly in an EV?

My idea is that the technology needed for ethanol use, is already developed and distributed. EV's need a completely new infrastructure and end user product.

Yes there is energy consumed developing the ethanol, but we're still burning coal to generate electricity. So the EV's aren't really any better in that respect either.

[buzz]

I was under the impression that the palm oil biodiesel fuels cost more net energy to create than they can return, and that the places that are growing them are fucking over local farmers.

fucking, any cock sucker who buys an electric car under the guise of "environmentalism" is a fuck wit. They do nothing to reduce pollution.
You'd be better off buying a Kingswood. At least its already been used long enough to offset its construction costs.

The bit I am interested in is retro engineering the technology into older existing vehicles, or having an aftermarket supporting the supply of engines and parts to convert older existing vehicles. The Govt wont touch it though despite potential greeny credits as the new car market want units moved.

[Rona]

It can and has been done, linked is a build for a Sera in WA. The biggest issue is still cost though, batteries etc are prohibitively expensive. You are looking at a $10-15k+ project for shits and giggles which is enough to buy a brand new Yaris/Midget car which sips fuck all fuel anyway will have greater range and probably performance as well.

http://www.toymods.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=46573

[rj_astra]

My idea is that the technology needed for ethanol use, is already developed and distributed. EV's need a completely new infrastructure and end user product.

New infrastructure? It's electricity - the infrastructure is everywhere.
As for cost... in the USA the cost to "refuel" an electric car compared to driving the same distance in a petrol car is 1/10th.

We have an advantage in Aus in that we have 240V outlets as standard. We can charge way faster than the normal US domestic 110V socket. So you can completely fill the Spark Ev here in 7hrs on a domestic power supply. So you could could squeeze in the recharging in during offpeak overnight.

[TonyJZX]

cooking oil and ethanol is largely a pipe dream

we'll never get the quantities needed for any meaning impact

if we take the US as a model they say that the 2025 CAFE benchmark is 50mpg

isnt that pretty much the limit of what we can expect from ICE?

[datso]

Efficiency. Fossil fuels are about the most efficient energy-transport medium we have, and yet we can still only get about 25% of the energy out of 'em; that's why ethanol cars use a lot more fuel to produce the same end-result. An electric motor (with current tech at least) converts about 80% of the electricity's energy to movement.

You are honestly forgetting the mining, refining, transport of the fuel to the pumps everywhere been gov. subsidised so its more affordable for the oil companies before it goes into your tank otherwise wed be arse raped with double its price.

Electricity grid is the transport and its doesnt help that battery tech is patented and bought by oil companies before it can be used cheaply by auto manufacturers who are at the whim of oil corps. Look at who killed the electric car doco on how chev was told to crush all its evs by an oil giant.

The best technology is "vertigro" for all our current ICE world but about to be bought by an oil giant atm, easiest way to get oil and fine fuels using a brilliant solution look it up its on Jewtube.

[Rona]

You are honestly forgetting the mining, refining, transport of the fuel to the pumps everywhere been gov. subsidised so its more affordable for the oil companies before it goes into your tank otherwise wed be arse raped with double its price.

Wat, you forgetting that the government taxes the living shit out a petrol eg for a price around $1.30/L the government is getting 50c of the pie.

[TonyJZX]

$4 a gallon seems to be the real world cost

i'm on the assumption there isnt a great deal of tax on us gasoline