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Holden Gone by 2017 - Is the Australian Media Killing our Car Industry

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    #76
    Originally posted by cheapracer View Post
    Who gives a toss about how a car handles except for what is instilled into your brain via TV commercial? How many drivers even come remotely close to ever experiencing lets say, 0.3Gs?

    The answer is virtually none and at the end of the day no one actually gives a shit this side of actual car enthusiasts how a cars performs in relation to roadholding and if you ask an average person how their car "handles" they will immediately refer to weight of steering and ease of driving - not even remotely refering to sliding a car down a mountain road in 3rd at 120.

    Of course this comment doesn't fit into a forum about performance cars but for the majority of plebs it's the truth, they are just cars and Holden need to stop over-catering for 1% of the market. Note the biggest selling Holden by far was probably also the worst handling (HQ).
    Agree except for the TV commercial bit in this context, but consider that cars have improved so much that your average car handles way better than it's equivalent did 30 years ago anyway. Also take into account that our roads are getting more and more crowded and penalties getting more and more drastic. In SEQ not so long ago there were nearly deserted roads you could go for a hoon on quite safe from the law, not now. So the practicality of the situation for many is now price, utility, style, status. And that's about it.
    Richard's DatsunZ lappin LakesidZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OSh...&feature=g-upl

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      #77
      Originally posted by Jim View Post
      I do wonder that maybe it would be better to let the industry collapse instead of artificially supporting it so that sustainable business models can be developed from the ashes.
      Problem is Jim that all countries support their heavy industries. BMW/MERC?VW get tax concessions in Germany etc
      I don't care a damn for your loyalty when you think I am right; when I really want it most is when you think I am wrong.
      Sir John Monash

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        #78
        The issue is not just the manufacturers, but the support businesses in a pyramidal structure. In Geelong Ford closes, so pilkington glass works shuts as no windscreens needed - which means other glass products no longer produced and support businesses for that shut. Alcoa at Geelong has less business - they will close along with shipping, wharf, transport etc. But other busniesses will have to get impoted product - which is fine when the dollar is at .90US but this will drop to .75US...then the average family car will be $45,000 and imported products such as alloy sheet will be expensive, but local manufacturing will be gone.
        I recon there is around 65,000 jobs tied up to local car production. But just as importantly the heavy industry expertise it supports cannot be supported by any other business in Australia...we'll shortly have all the heavy industry of New Zealand. Sure some mugs who want to import any car they want may be able to do so, but then so many of them won't have a job!
        I don't care a damn for your loyalty when you think I am right; when I really want it most is when you think I am wrong.
        Sir John Monash

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          #79
          1. PF make own holden Adverts, the way they should be.
          2. Post on YouTube
          3. ???
          4. Profit
          Pest Control - Brisbane, Gold Coast, Ipswich and South West QLD PF discounts apply.

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            #80
            People are forgetting a fundamental issue with the Australian automotive industry, and it's the same issue the contributed to the collapse of the British industry. Only the Japanese automotive industry has been able to survive this issue, and they do it by building 11ty versions of the same bloody car.
            It's the side of the car we sit on, have a look at how many RHD countries have a native automotive industry then have a look at how many LHD countries have an automotive industry. Even bloody Sweden has a bigger, more profitable industry then we do, the Saab collapse was due to GM mismanagement.
            If Australia adopted right hand traffic/LHD when everyone else was going that way the industry would be in a much healthier position. Of course hindsight is wonderful, we're fucked now as it's all but impossible to swap, Sweden did it in the 1960s and it took several years to sort the mess out, and cost a fucking shit load. Heard a story it cost millions just to ship the buses to Australia, yes ex Swedish buses were imported in the 1960s. Nice buses as well, much more thought/pride in construction then similar vintage local bodies. Which is another issue with the Australian industry, quality or lack of.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by cheapracer View Post
              the Ford Mustang proves 2 things, a live axle is fine and the Internet is full of fuckwits who think it's not.
              The live rear axle Mustang handles like a bucket of shit.
              The only things the Mustang being live rear axles proves are that people will accept shit handling if they're paying $22k for a car, and the American idea of good handling is a firm ride & flat cornering & has little to do with an ability to control the direction the car's going in & nor does it have much to do with roadholding/grip.

              People also accept shit handling/ride/etc in a truck. Having said that, you see a few Amaroks around & they're supposed to be a lot more car-like ... they'd still have a truck rear-end wouldn't they?
              Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Forg View Post
                The only things the Mustang being live rear axles proves are that people will accept shit handling if they're paying $22k for a car, and the American idea of good handling is a firm ride & flat cornering & has little to do with an ability to control the direction the car's going in & nor does it have much to do with roadholding/grip.
                All they had to do was pretty much copy the AE-86 suspension as they handle quite well from the factory.
                It's not difficult but for some reason people think that getting a live-axle car to handle is either impossible or too difficult.

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                  #83
                  Originally posted by Billzilla View Post
                  All they had to do was pretty much copy the AE-86 suspension as they handle quite well from the factory.
                  It's not difficult but for some reason people think that getting a live-axle car to handle is either impossible or too difficult.
                  Racetrack & real world aren't quite the same thing, though.
                  Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Billzilla View Post
                    It's not difficult but for some reason people think that getting a live-axle car to handle is either impossible or too difficult.
                    I'm going to quote this totally non-Bill like post :D

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                      #85
                      Aaaah, but the real question is - how many valves does this live axle have
                      Richard's DatsunZ lappin LakesidZ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47OSh...&feature=g-upl

                      Comment


                        #86
                        half arsed thought:

                        why not offer a (decent) tax break for local manufactured content in cars built in australia?

                        Govco lose a few dollars from the big players but gain a lot more once it filters through the system to all the little guys by increasing local supply.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Forg View Post
                          Racetrack & real world aren't quite the same thing, though.
                          real world is easier, only a small percentage of drivers can go anywhere near the limits of most vehicles handling, the rest are just idiots who blame the car when their ambition exceeds their ability.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by greenhj View Post
                            real world is easier, only a small percentage of drivers can go anywhere near the limits of most vehicles handling, the rest are just idiots who blame the car when their ambition exceeds their ability.
                            To be honest I'd say for most people the tyres they use have a bigger influence on a car's handling then the suspension setup. Even using quality tyres of the same brand can show some rather interesting differences, we've just put new tyres on nopics' Colt and it's better to drive now even though we're still running Yokohamas, OE spec vs "eco" spec at that! An M3 will handle like shit with crap tyres on it, by the same token a Hiace will handle crap no matter what you ran.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by greenhj View Post
                              half arsed thought:

                              why not offer a (decent) tax break for local manufactured content in cars built in australia?

                              Govco lose a few dollars from the big players but gain a lot more once it filters through the system to all the little guys by increasing local supply.
                              The concept of offering incentives to buy Australian, has always fallen on the deaf ears of those who could implement such schemes.

                              There are quite a few policies and schemes the Government could introduce to support it, but for whatever reason, they haven't.

                              I'd be banging on the Holden dealer's door tomorrow, if they dropped the price of the Cruze down a tad, and added a driver's footrst.
                              Originally posted by brewdles
                              In short, some cunt at test and tune had a 250cc honda turning to 11ty and it sounded porn. Do that.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                They dont have a drivers footrest? What is this, 1960?
                                Originally posted by Rdyno
                                70ynu has to be the most retarded cunt here. "Help me please" me "you need to remove your head" him "fuck off cunt I'm to lazy fuck off out of my thread you told me to do something I don't want to do so you're a cunt fuck off can some one please tell me an easier way???"
                                Originally posted by Tripper
                                Its a tight battle between you and rogercordia for the most retarded member on here, thou i think you have it by 5 window licks

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