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    Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
    why?

    why would an EV be any more likely to spontaneously combust than an ICE vehicle?
    why would an ICE vehicle on fire not set fire to a building, but an EV would?
    why would a building fire started by an EV be worse than one started by an ICE vehicle?

    Honestly, the bows being drawn in this thread are veeerrry long....
    Tesla admitted to just let it burn, so any kind of fire suppression system that a building might have would be ineffective. So yes, an electric car would be much worse than a ICE vehicle.
    Not saying it's more or less likely to spontaneously combust, just when they do...
    Last edited by Sturmovik; 20-04-21, 11:51 PM.

    Comment


      Originally posted by LB-XP View Post


      I would be way more concerned about street cars with a critical battery senario than some EV race car crash where safety officials are on hand.
      why?

      This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

      Comment


        Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
        why?

        why would an EV be any more likely to spontaneously combust than an ICE vehicle?
        why would an ICE vehicle on fire not set fire to a building, but an EV would?
        why would a building fire started by an EV be worse than one started by an ICE vehicle?

        Honestly, the bows being drawn in this thread are veeerrry long....
        1. Probably wouldn't - plenty of houses have been lost to charging lipo batteries & petrol cars.
        2. Buildings with parking underneath require fire ratings on their supporting pillars - specifically for the event of a car fire - There's an apartment block 15 mins from me that's currently empty because the pillars didn't have adequate fire protection - If the intensity or duration of the fire 'expected' changes - then maybe the fire rating should? could? etc - eg, if the current sprinkler systems installed were inadequate to deal with a fire that brings its own oxidiser - as in, if you put equivalent amounts (in energy) of petrol and lithium batteries in a space that can be closed - the petrol will go out as you have removed the oxygen - the batteries will continue to burn until all their energy has been released.
        3. don't know - i guess if you cancel out the interior and other flammable parts - does a petrol tank release the stored energy in a similar way?
        This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

        Comment


          Or buy a Chinese production current Model 3 (not PP) and have LiFePO4 batteries that don't have any risk of self immolation. Problem solved. Next!

          Comment


            Originally posted by GSRman View Post

            1. Probably wouldn't - plenty of houses have been lost to charging lipo batteries & petrol cars.
            2. Buildings with parking underneath require fire ratings on their supporting pillars - specifically for the event of a car fire - There's an apartment block 15 mins from me that's currently empty because the pillars didn't have adequate fire protection - If the intensity or duration of the fire 'expected' changes - then maybe the fire rating should? could? etc - eg, if the current sprinkler systems installed were inadequate to deal with a fire that brings its own oxidiser - as in, if you put equivalent amounts (in energy) of petrol and lithium batteries in a space that can be closed - the petrol will go out as you have removed the oxygen - the batteries will continue to burn until all their energy has been released.
            3. don't know - i guess if you cancel out the interior and other flammable parts - does a petrol tank release the stored energy in a similar way?
            This is my point. If you’re at the point where a car has set fire to a building, it no longer matters what the source of the fire was. You’ve got a building on fire. Even if you accept that there might be a slightly higher risk with a battery fire, this is well into the range of exceedingly rare edge-case scenarios.

            All of these excuses are just like range anxiety- doomsday scenarios that in reality have far less impact than people make out, because they have a bias against EVs for whatever reason.
            Originally posted by Jim
            I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.

            Originally posted by elfturbomax
            What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.

            Comment


              Originally posted by 200MPH View Post
              Or buy a Chinese production current Model 3 (not PP) and have LiFePO4 batteries that don't have any risk of self immolation. Problem solved. Next!
              Why don't they have that same risk?

              Comment


                LiFePO4 (also known as Lithium Iron Phosphate) batteries are a huge improvement over lead acid in weight, capacity and shelf life. The LiFePO4 batteries are the safest type of Lithium batteries as they will not overheat, and even if punctured they will not catch on fire. The cathode material in LiFePO4 batteries is not hazardous, and so poses no negative health hazards or environmental hazards. Due to the oxygen being bonded tightly to the molecule, there is no danger of the battery erupting into flames like there is with Lithium-Ion. The chemistry is so stable that LiFePO4 batteries will accept a charge from a lead-acid configured battery charger. Though less energy-dense than the Lithium-Ion and Lithium Polymer, Iron and Phosphate are abundant and cheaper to extract so costs are much more reasonable. LiFePO4 life expectancy is approximately 5-7 years.
                thats got some marketing spin in it - at the end of the day, the energy stored still needs to get out, but sounds like it will probably melt vs liberate heaps of oxygen
                This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

                Comment


                  Thanks. That last bit is interesting - life expectancy of 5-7 years and Tesla has an 8 year battery warranty.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Captain_Slow View Post
                    Thanks. That last bit is interesting - life expectancy of 5-7 years and Tesla has an 8 year battery warranty.
                    twigged me too - it was from a secondary place though - so maybe they are talking about a lifep444$$$$ car battery or something - made me think our hybrid is now 9 years old.
                    This is a post i wrote by mistake, which is nice...

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Captain_Slow View Post
                      Thanks. That last bit is interesting - life expectancy of 5-7 years and Tesla has an 8 year battery warranty.
                      5-7 years in someones shed being abused on the regular.

                      Lifepo4 in a Model 3 with one of if not the worlds most sophisticated BMS/climate control setup? Easily 8.
                      Parramatta Eels, 2009 Premiership rightful winners.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by GSRman View Post

                        twigged me too - it was from a secondary place though - so maybe they are talking about a lifep444$$$$ car battery or something - made me think our hybrid is now 9 years old.
                        Old man has 15 on his prius...batteries still all good. But they came with NiMH I believe
                        RIP Simon - Ghost ride that whip in the clouds forever..

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post

                          This is my point. If you’re at the point where a car has set fire to a building, it no longer matters what the source of the fire was. You’ve got a building on fire. Even if you accept that there might be a slightly higher risk with a battery fire, this is well into the range of exceedingly rare edge-case scenarios.

                          All of these excuses are just like range anxiety- doomsday scenarios that in reality have far less impact than people make out, because they have a bias against EVs for whatever reason.
                          Yeah naa, that's like a reverse jet fuel doesn't melt steel beams. Shitty break bulb sprinklers will maintain enough water flow to absorb energy from most car fires, the intensity of the lithium fires and total energy is an order of magnitude higher.

                          I get to review data from mine site reportable events all the time, diesel and hydraulic fluid on hot parts isn't good but can generally be suppressed easily if caught early, even if it gets away if you douse it, it stops, these won't. As above, some cars could burn to the ground in a car parks and go nowhere near initiating a fire on another level or damaging infrastructure, I'm entirely sure the energy from one of them could.

                          I'm sure someone was making similar arguments about diesel engines in cities not being a greater cancer risk than petrol engines and downplaying particulate emissions when the was a tech resurgence in them too. You are arguing against quantifiable energy outputs.

                          With shit like this, you are far better acknowledging the problems and dealing with it than putting your head in the sand. A proactive regulatory approach on this stuff will save lives. No ifs, no buts more people will die unnecessarily if this isn't dealt with properly. You need to remember pretty much all existing safety legislation is written in blood, why repeat that?
                          Last edited by Slides; 22-04-21, 08:41 PM.

                          Comment


                            If one going up causes a big problem...I imagine one going up in a basement full of them in 10 years time is going to be catastrophic. Does sound like something that needs to be thought about now rather than later.
                            RIP Simon - Ghost ride that whip in the clouds forever..

                            Comment


                              Again, how often do you think EVs spontaneously combust?
                              Originally posted by Jim
                              I feel that rules are important as without rules there is no cheating and cheating is a vital part of drag racing.

                              Originally posted by elfturbomax
                              What has happened to PF? It seems to be diesel love now days. Maybe the name should be changed to Particulate Forums.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by perthdrivers.txt View Post
                                Again, how often do you think EVs spontaneously combust?
                                Do you wear a seatbelt? Why does you car have airbags? How often do you need those? Why are there sprinklers in carparks now? Nuclear plants don't go up often either, gonna camp out in Chernobyl?

                                Point is EVs, just like normal cars and any electric or engine driven plant do go up, even after being parked up after a sedate drive. It is a foreseeable risk which controls can be put in place for. Just like high pressure hydraulics near people or flammable gas storage.

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