Minispools

[oldenholden64]

Originally posted by 200sxtc
I had a locker in my 1200 ute and after getting used to driving it I found that it was fairly predictable. I believe a lot of old racecars use lockers so they cant be too unpredictable. Tight corners and parking were a real pain but overall it wasnt too bad.

EDIT: Didnt mention that it was extremely painfull in the wet. No weight in the back with a locker in the wet and a descent amount of hp made for some scary driving.

The problem was when it snapped at axel at 80kph it felt like the back of the car was going to fall apart.

Next monday the ute is going in for a V8 LSD conversion. Better to save the money and do it right IMO. It is expensive (3K) but worth it. As for insurance picking up on it, not too sure about that one. Especially considering I went over the pits with it on and didnt get pulled up (tight LSD mate!).

3g's... wholey crap thats one expensive diff.. im getting a 9inch fully customised for my eh with a 4-link setup for $2500.

[Camma]

Yeah 3gs is expensive but that includes a borg warner lsd with commodore disc brakes, tailshaft with replaceable unis and engineering. The workshop doing the job have an excellent reputation. They also have to retain the datto stud pattern so the simmons will fit back on.

Your price is bloody excellent for what they are doing! Where and who are they?

[dhs]

Originally posted by matlennon
true they may be a cheap alternative but hopefully not a fulltime one. And yes they may be predictable but they will arse out earlier than an open diff.

That's exactly what I said.. :p

Like you implied tt's dead easy to drive fast with a locker... just push it hard into a corner and when it starts to understeer put your foot down to point the noise wherever you want it to go. I guess that's why alot of "drift" cars have them or tight LSD's. If you plan on doing it though it's best to have some good tyres on the front though but I guess that applies in any case. It leads to an expensive tyre habit I can tell you now.

They also seem to grip better coming into corners and to pull better out of corners (better grip, pushes you back in your seat more) as you're exiting. Although I did a suspension upgrade at the same time I put my diff in I'm quite sure the diff has alot to do with what I consider to be the favorable handling charactistics of my car. It just feels nice and safe and sturdy in the dry cornering and it's easy to provoke controllable oversteer with a little bit of throttle-work.

Driving a car with a locker is like riding a bike, I don't even have to think about it anymore. Often with the locked diff in the rain I used to spend a good portion of my trip sideways and it doesn't phase me in the least anymore, just slowly steer into it and keep powering through. I don't even notice it sometimes, it's just a knee-jerk reaction. The one thing that did phase me though was overtaking in the wet, so once I'm above 50km/h or so in the wet I drive nice and slow like a granny.

I think the problem here is people who weld the diff, jump in their car, dump the clutch at 7 grand on a big dry road and wake up in hospital. With a locked diff, if you're just sitting in 1st gear with the clutch in and you dump it at quite high revs (eg Rotary, 7500pm+) the car will fly up the street sideways like it has 500hp.. You really have to have experience, know your car well and be ready to catch it if you're going to be a hooligan!

Like I said you just need respect that's all

restecp -- Ali G

[oldenholden64]

Originally posted by 200sxtc
Yeah 3gs is expensive but that includes a borg warner lsd with commodore disc brakes, tailshaft with replaceable unis and engineering. The workshop doing the job have an excellent reputation. They also have to retain the datto stud pattern so the simmons will fit back on.

Your price is bloody excellent for what they are doing! Where and who are they?

its gonna be
shortned,
resplined,
stud pattern changed to HQ
includes tailshaft,
rotors(although i want cross drilled and slotted to match the fronts)
calipers
handbrake calbes
whatever ratio needed
and all the 4-link gear, braketry and front load bar.

mine doesnt include engineering, its a project car so its all going to be put in and then everything engineered all at once.. although it will pass without a problem as ive already spoken to my engineere and said it looks all fine.

i'll go find the number.. although it may take awhile i dont organise my car contacts very well.. its a big folder filled with heaps of small pieces of paper with numbers on them :p

[oldenholden64]

just had a quick look but not seeing as yet.. but central diffs where going to do me a vn v8 borgy with 9 inch axels, shortened, resplined, rotors, calipers, hq stud pattern tailshaft for $1700(off the top of my head) and it was to whatever ratio i wanted and they tighten up the lsd and recoe it.... should try them..

[mad]

Lockers are the best way to prepare street tyres for the races.

Guaranteed slicks if you know how to drive.

Dhs: me thinks u r sideways most of the time due to the baldness? not just the fact that ur frying the tyres all the time?

I found the rotor with a locker quite scary in local driving. I didnt even start it if it was wet, it was just a joke!

[nitrane]

ok.

Minispools, full spools, mig welded centers etc = Illegal.

Detriot lockers, mechanical lockers = Legal

If you smash your car while running a minispool, and the insurance company learns of this - do not expect cover.

I've heard all kinds of stories of spools/lockers etc.

Myself and my mates have had experience, here's my findings.

1) Most people who complain about locker's drivability haven't had one.

2) I've heard of stories of ripped out trailing arms and cracked rims etc. - but never seen any examples of my own.

3) People say these are undrivable and dangerous in the wet - I have had no greater issue driving a detriot locker in the wet than driving a tight LSD. My friends who have had spools say the same.

4) I have seen instances (on a salisbury diff) of damaged axel splines, however there were off a 1985 salisbury with a very very hard life (The car had done 85,000kms, i'm guessing the rest of the car has done 40,000kms haha)

5) I have never had someone i know with a spooled/locked borg warner 28 spline let go - however a mate's 25 spline diff in his VN ute did snap an axel. I've been told Borg warner diff strength to be very close to that of a 9". Believe it or not.

6) I have heard stories of axels letting go at high speed due to the spool the car becoming uncontrollable at such high speed causing disaster! - My local diff builder said a) if the axel snaps it will be basically like driving an open wheel diff and b) it is unheard of an axel snapping at high speed - most of this is caused by shock (burnouts, launches etc.) Basically an urban myth.

Also... i have been told that is a good idea to always attempt to park a car with a locked diff as straight as possible. This is to keep stresses off the axels if the car is parked on an angle.

And... - Be prepared for your car to be a pain in the arse in carparks and expect police attention... especially at servos with painted surfaces! oh oh and watch it when driving off the front lawn

I know there will always be cases of drag cars or high hp street cars breaking diffs/axels etc so please dont be pedantic with what i've said.

Sorry for my 2 cents... someone may find my ramblings of interest

[Camma]

Nitrane I can 100% guarantee you that my axel let go above 80 Kph. We are talking about Datsun 1200 ute axels and they arent that strong. It snapped the axel completely off with the break inside the diff (technically the diff didnt break, the axel snapped inside it). Did it drive like just an open wheeler when it happened? God no! As nothing was holding the thing in, the whole back of the car moved side to side. Very scary at a descent speed.

You are correct about the spools/lockers etc being illegal. They definately are. As I said in my previous email I got mine over the pits by saying it was a very tight LSD. Very lucky.

Mine was made more dangerous in the wet because of the lack of weight in the rear so mine may be a special case.

I hope what you say is true about the Borgys, my conversion starts on Monday.

Oldenholden - If I were only in Melbourne, those prices are very good. I would have to add $350 for engineering though.

[MrBishi]

Originally posted by nitrane
ok.

1) Most people who complain about locker's drivability haven't had one.

6) I have heard stories of axels letting go at high speed due to the spool the car becoming uncontrollable at such high speed causing disaster! - My local diff builder said a) if the axel snaps it will be basically like driving an open wheel diff and b) it is unheard of an axel snapping at high speed - most of this is caused by shock (burnouts, launches etc.) Basically an urban myth.

interest

I agree with just about everything you stated except for pt 6.
If you break an axle (or centre) & it remains drivable it will NOT handle like an open wheeler. One wheel only will be driven which in essence = chrinoc wheelspin. Steep hillstarts are impossible as you get no forward momentum - entirely possible to move backwards due to wheelspin.

As previously stated - V8 supercars run full spools (fully locked), which tends to put the crap handling argument into perspective. I ran a locker in my car for a while and handling was vastly improved (admittedly it was on stock suspension)

In my experience in the wet - a locker is no more dangerous than a tight LSD. Feel free to disagree only if you have actually driven a car with a locker.

[nitrane]

Obviously the drivability of having a snapped axel will not be the same as driving an open wheeler, but it is similar (1 axel recieving the driving power).

Do V8 supercars run full spools? I thought they ran a LSD center?

I found in the dry a locked diff is alot harder to break traction while cornering that with a LSD. It's only when it breaks traction it's alot more "severe".

When launching in straight line, there is no comparasin - Lockers rule.

[OMR-007]

I know when i had my SR20 gemini, the open diff was really scary under power, it used to start open then lock both in then out again and made it almost imposible to handle (predict). With the locker (what I started with but removed because of daily driver) was really predictable, you know exactly what it was going to do! Could have been because it was a gemini though! hehe

[80DGY]

What about a locked FWD diff? :D

[samdumbert]

In my car i have open diffs then when the center dies i weld it up. I love lockers but they are bad for tight, slow corners. the worst is getting in the maccas drive thu

[Kinks]

Having driven a locker all I can say is they are great in good conditions, but common sense means don't play silly buggers in the wet. Slow tight corners are a bitch, and of course all manner of ugly sounds gives the game away that you definitely don't have an open wheeler..

[meggala]

a few of my cefiro's have 2 way diffs which go click click click. they are ok to drive but can be hairy in the wet warpspeed is right about the handeling they tend to push the front straight in to a corner so you really have to induce wheelspin so the car goes sideway. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm drift I think its called
meggala