Bathurst 24 Hour Entry List

[Dazz]

Where can you buy a 5-litre BMW M3 and a 4-litre Ferrari 360 in Australia?

Oh but that's different I suppose?

[edo]

Originally posted by Dazz

"Ross Palmer wrote:

"You are getting confused with our categories.

1. APCC .The Australian Production Car Championship is for production road cars,coupes and sports cars with hard tops.
About the only modifications are springs and shock absorbers.

Ross Palmer lies!


Why does everyone have a problem with the Monaro in particular? Its a purpose built race car like everything else in its class.
The GT3s that are running are not road cars you can buy at your local dealer & trundle off down the road in. There are significant differences in the engine (a fair whack more grunt plus major cooling upgrades), gearbox (ratios, gear sizes), suspension (not just spings & shock but rose joints & adjustable arms are added)...not to mention every bolt on panel being carbon fibre.

You can buy one from Porsche Australia...but they are all left hand drive & totally unregisterable. Im equally sure if you fronted up to GRM they would happily build you a NC monaro if you were willing to pay for it...

[SCH]

Originally posted by Dazz
Where can you buy a 5-litre BMW M3 and a 4-litre Ferrari 360 in Australia?

Oh but that's different I suppose?

I don't want to get into an argument with you Dazz, because respect you as a knowledgable race fan, but here's a difference for you:

The 5-litre engine in the M3 GTR is a production spec road car engine with modified camshafts and engine managment. It is otherwise completely identical to the production engine found in the M5 and Z8 road cars.

There is no production road cars in the entire GM empire that are fitted with the 7-litre block, let alone the complete long motor.

With all due respect, that is a difference.

I can't comment on the Ferrari, because I don't profess to be an expert on them, but I'll take your word for it.

Regards,
Simon.

[edo]

I hate to point out the obvious but the reason the BMW engine is based on a production engine would definately have more to do with the fact that they dont have a race engine that is suitable & that using the M5 donk was the most economical way of producing a race car for that class (ALMS).

General motors did have a suitable race engine avaliable that had already been R&D'd to death in the development of the C5R race car. It was more economical to use that engine than to reinvent the wheel by using the Gen3 or whatever other road car engine.

If you believe anything else youre in fairy land.

[Fatboy]

Originally posted by itsnotagsr
agreed. you'll inevitably get the droll from the Holden PR people saying how it beat the porsches etc. But show me where you can buy one..... whereas a GT3 on the other hand you can....

I thought you knew a little about motorsport Chris... i guess not

[FLI355]

Everyone gave the monaro no chance of winning last year, and cried foul when it did, I just hope it blows the competition away again!

[edo]

I remeber seeing the M3s at Adelaide (race of 1000 years) & more than that remember the noise they made...quite likely the best sounding car I have ever heard...just awesome

[Dazz]

The bottom line is, the rules are there for anyone to build a car to the limit of, and if other manufacturers choose not to, then that is not Holden or PROCAR's fault is it?

People get the shits with Holden, but they are the ones that spend the money to get the exposure. So you can't sit back and bag them out for the complacency of other manufacturers who are not willing to put the dollars behind motorsport in this country.

I'm sure that PROCAR would welcome with open arms Ford, Toyota or Mitsubishi if they wanted to field a car of similar performance as it would only increase interest in the class.

I'm not a "Holden fan", never owned one, have no plansto, and much prefer to tinker with my Rotaries, but I refuse to drop to the knocker level and whinge and moan about the track and marketing sucess Holden achieve from spending a huge amount of money going motor racing in this country.

I personally love the thought of our local teams taking it right up to the Europeans, the self proclaimed masters of the long distance races, no matter what they are driving.

It's going to be a great race I think.

[GaryD]

the 200sx should have a jun rb26dett block in it :D

[coyote]

Predictions

1st - Monaro
2nd - Porsche
3rd - Monaro (because one could crash, break down, sink into the swamp and still finish on the podium)

[stolei]

You have a good point Dazz. It would be good to see a local team win.

But I have to say.

GO the all mighty BMW M3 GTR V8....... :worship: :worship: :worship: :worship: BMW Power.

They are only running 4.4 sec's slower than that massive 7ltr Monaro.

We all know what can happen over 24hrs of racing though... Its anyones race at this stage.

3 420 VERVE 501 J.BOWE/N.CROMPTON/ G.CRICK/M.ALGADRI BMW M3 GTR V8 5000 A 24 7 2:17.6832 0:04.3976


Stolei

[Steyr]

Personally I welcome the Monaro.
It's 7 litres - so what. The Diablo is 6 litres and a NC Viper is 8 litres (don't think there is a Viper in the 24hr this year).

My only gripe is that to the uneducated eye such as mine it appears that Procar has tailored the entry requirements to give the Monaro the best possible chance of winning. For example, why won't they allow a JGTC GT500 car to enter?

[itsnotagsr]

Originally posted by edo
Ross Palmer lies!

Why does everyone have a problem with the Monaro in particular? Its a purpose built race car like everything else in its class.
The GT3s that are running are not road cars you can buy at your local dealer & trundle off down the road in. There are significant differences in the engine (a fair whack more grunt plus major cooling upgrades), gearbox (ratios, gear sizes), suspension (not just spings & shock but rose joints & adjustable arms are added)...not to mention every bolt on panel being carbon fibre.

You can buy one from Porsche Australia...but they are all left hand drive & totally unregisterable. Im equally sure if you fronted up to GRM they would happily build you a NC monaro if you were willing to pay for it...

Edo,
(given that you have obviously had more racing experience than I have....) my assumption (rightly or wrongly) looking at the cars entered was that the majority of the local GT3s were direct from the Carrera Cup, where such modifications were limited. Hence my original statement about the GT3s being "relatively" close to standard rather than a ciustom build prototype like the Monaro. Had HSV made the 427. I would have loved to have seen the racing between it and the GT3 on a more equal (if possible) basis.

[SCH]

Originally posted by edo
I hate to point out the obvious but the reason the BMW engine is based on a production engine would definately have more to do with the fact that they dont have a race engine that is suitable & that using the M5 donk was the most economical way of producing a race car for that class (ALMS).

General motors did have a suitable race engine avaliable that had already been R&D'd to death in the development of the C5R race car. It was more economical to use that engine than to reinvent the wheel by using the Gen3 or whatever other road car engine.

If you believe anything else youre in fairy land.

That is a good point, and one I hadn't considered. I understand what you're saying and realise that they're all operating within the rules.

I also remember Ross talking about the costs involved, and the Monaro certainly does sound like an economical package compared to some of the other exotics.

Cheers,
Simon.

[stolei]

Originally posted by estorilblue3.2
if you want to get into the big shitfight surrounding the eligibility of the mongrel monaro, then I suggest you check out the PROCAR discussion forums

PROCAR forums

I happen to agree with you, but apparently the rules allow for the specific case of the monaro. They allowed them to build a special chassis (with through-firewall roll-cage), custom dbl wishbone front suspension, and use a US race engine, not found in any production model on the planet. These three points are just a few of the many that seperate the Monaro from the rest of the field, but unfortunately, doesn't make it illegal due to the rules being custom written for GRM.

Is this true? were the rules custom written for GRM?