Hypothetically - if the public revoluted against speed revenue, what will happen?

[smellytofu]

But it begs the question why have dodgy cars with dodgy shocks/tyres/etc on the road in the first place? Driving at the legal limit (or left lane) doesn't mean you won't do both yourself or others harm should you not being able to handle as well as it's been designed to.

If everyone was keeping left unless overtaking and not hogging the right lanes, then everyone would be in the left lane. It can't work on roads like Parramatta Rd but yes, people should have better attitudes towards other road users.

As for advanced skills.. this is where re-testing and education comes into it and have facilities available for people to get reinforecement of their skills. (a la skid pan)

[Captiva Fan]

I'm driving in the left lane 'cos I'm not driving as quickly as I used to in the 242GT, Liberty or Corolla; and i'm not driving as quickly 'cos I know I don't like the feel of the steering if I try going 'round a corner that's got mid-corner bumps & I know the car won't respond as well if something bad m'kay happens.

Everyone keeping left does work on Parramatta Road ... just only between abut 2am & 6am.

And as for driver skill, I still haven't seen any proof that it makes a real difference unless an attitude change is included. I frankly have SFA car-control skill, yet I've not been involved in a crash since a stupid rear-ender over 10 years ago as a result of not looking where I was going at car-park speeds. What's much more important is, for example, not driving on the brake-lights of the car in front (eg. I find myself getting worried when the driver of a car I'm in isn't responding to the traffic up-ahead instead of just the car in-front); and testing doesn't pick that up.

[smellytofu]

The pink slip test is a joke as far as I'm concerned. I know dealers who do the brake test trick where you put the pedal thing on the floor, holding the brake machine on your lap and then holding the machine, drop it to about your shins and then back up on your lap.... brake test done.

I know many people that only look at the brake lights just in front of them rather than looking thru a series of cars in front and looking at all brake lights a few cars ahead (my gf included). These are skills for everyday driving. Ditto for what to do in a skid/slide. Even things like reverse parking into a garage... people don't realise using the mirrors actually helps you figure out which direction you are going and how close to the side of your car say a pillar is (of course looking in the rear window too).

Btw, 2am-6am won't work coz of the "hoons" leaving The Rocks area. :p

[Captiva Fan]

It would if they'd only get right when they're overtaking ... all the slow Skyline-boyz could just be glued in the left lane. :D

And yeah, too many people don't drive properly; but how do you enforce & test that stuff? The sort of stuff you're talking about you use all the time so you don't forget it; sliding all over the road only happens when you've fscked-up, so should in theory never happen if you apply the other stuff all the time (OK, I know the world ain't perfect & it does happen - but when talking about dragging crash rates down, it's better to stop the outta-control Commode-driver from getting onto the wrong side of the road in the first place, than teaching Grandma how to handbrake-turn out of the Commode's way).

[smellytofu]

But sliding doesn't always mean you've fcuked up... what if it's the result of someone else fcuking up? Of course we all hope to never have to utilise these skills but is it better to know or to not know about these things?

[Captiva Fan]

I was thinking about it while I went off & made use of the espresso machine I've been permantly loaned ... *takes sip of really-yummy-for-home-made coffee* ... thing is, I'm still planning on sending my GF to one of those driver-training days (prolly when Project Volvo is finished, so I can go with her), and that's sort-of at odds with what I've said above.

However, I think the deal is this; car control skills are a person's defence against the poor attitude & awareness habits of the average driver. However, if other drivers didn't have a poor attitude or poor awareness habits, it'd be pointless. That, to me, says that learning car control skills is a bandaid to a poor situation; albeit one which I can apply. A solution overall would be to somehow make people have a better attitude & teach people how to observe.

Also, what circumstances are there when sliding doesn't mean you've fscked up? I can't think of a situation when you'd slide to avoid something; and sliding in a manner you think is controlled is just show-ponying or messing-around, lose that & it's definitely you that's fscked up.

[smellytofu]

OK... here's one I actually saw happen behind me...

2 lanes each way.. relatively OK road with a few cars parked on the left lanes and there's a car in the right lane waiting to turn right creating this chicane scenario. I'm going there at exactly 60 and make the "chicane" alright.... now comes an early 90's Camry and probably does the same thing at the same speed... from the right lane, passes the first car parked on the left, then right and passes the car waiting to turn right, left again to pass the last car parked on the left and then oversteer onto the other side of the road. (Btw, the Camry luckily didn't hit anything)This person did have clear view of all the cars stationary on the roads so nothing was blocking anyone's view and just seen me do the chicane no problems (but then again, I was in a new Liberty.. i.e. new shocks, springs, tyres etc etc).

Now that must have been a brown pants moment but how does Mr or Mrs Wong in their Camry and Roadstone (as an example) rubber going to know you don't do that if you know your car has saggy springs and worn out shocks? Yes they fcuked up.... but how do they know? Mr Learner instructor won't tell them what to do when they were getting their license.

I agree that I'm going to send myself and my gf to one of those advanced driving courses as soon as I figure out the insurance bit of using a company car in one of these.

[Captiva Fan]

Originally posted by smellytofu
how does Mr or Mrs Wong in their Camry and Roadstone (as an example) rubber going to know you don't do that if you know your car has saggy springs and worn out shocks? Yes they fcuked up.... but how do they know?

It's pretty damned obvious; it's something you learn extremely quickly! The guy was an idiot, he was driving more quickly than he was able to handle; and as the driver of a sh1tbox I VERY much doubt the problem was just the car, unless you were going too quickly as well ('cos if you're sensible you don't drive quickly enough such that your car is only just able to pull-off a manuevre ... it doesn't leave enough room for the aforementioned excess-to-gene-pool child running onto the road, for example).

The insurance bit is a tad dodgy, but in theory you're going to driver training so it should be OK. Unless you're doing the Hooning 'Round A Racetrack courses, you really have little chance of getting into trouble unless you try to ... the Hooning 'Round a Racetrack courses are a bigger risk IMHO.

[dazza]

3 lane highway...

KEEP OUT OF THE RIGHT LANE UNLESS OVERTAKING! I can handle 2 slow lanes but FARK