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    #31
    Although I'm supportive of EV's and will consider one when it is new car time again for the nopics. But the ICE car still has a long future ahead of it I reckon. The first issue is manufacturers need to agree on a common charging port and associated charge control. Our electrical distribution network would need to be significantly upgraded, it's all well and good with the current number of EV cars on the road maybe 20-30'000 BEV's registered vs. almost 20 million registered motor vehicles per the latest census. That is a lot of extra power on the grid. Lets say at some point in the next 10-15years we somehow had 5mil BEV's on the road, now all those people get home each day and plug in their car, now say they each only have a 10amp plug so 2.4kw each which works out to an extra 12'000MW's needed that is a fuckload of power and in no way supportable by renewables anytime in the forseeable future (so from an environmental standpoint it doesn't really make sense given our current and likely fuel mix on our grid in the next decade or so). We are going to need a fuckload of new power generation which isn't just expensive peaking power. Of course people always throw in the oh well you can charge during the day at work, how long do you think companies are going to be happy to pay for their employees to charge their cars when their electricity bills are going through the roof. Same with all the free public charging locations that will only last until the cost of providing that point starts making a noticeable impact on that providers bottom line.

    Now people say well most people are just diving to and from work but when is the last time you took a trip on one of the national highways somewhere? We typically head up to Bundaberg every couple years from Brisbane as that is where my nopics grew up, the amount of cars on the road for that drive is crazy and you are going to end up with massive lines of cars waiting to charge at the typical stopping points these places are going to need huge investment to upgrade their grid supply in order to support any reasonable amount of quick charging points.

    None of this is unsurmountable but it isn't the type of thing we are going to be able to adapt to in the next 10-15years.

    Plus it still comes down to capital outlay as a car buyer. Until someone can go into a dealership and buy a Nissan Leaf (or equivalent) for $20-$30k new and not $45k-$55k then you are going to struggle to find mainstream buyers, yeah cost of ownership and all that but upfront cost is still a huge issue to get past.
    Last edited by Luke352; 28-09-20, 10:00 AM.

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      #32
      Originally posted by snavy View Post
      Next time you fill up take 20 minutes and see how well that goes.
      Most people will “fill up” overnight. Same as with your iPhone. You don’t charge it during the day. You get home and plug it in then.
      Turns out, far too much has been written about great men and not nearly enough about morons


      Originally posted by seedyrom
      my neighbours called the cops...... not because of the sound of me working in the garage was too loud, but because i taped a cardboard box to my back, covered my self in vaseline and pretended i was a snail on their lawn

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        #33
        Uptake of EVs here at least will need to go hand in hand with household micro generation.

        in fact, this may be supported in part by the slow adaptation of the energy regulator to allow for a decentralised grid, and by technology trials of using EV battery storage as the household off peak generation power source instead of (or as well as) a household “power wall”.
        Turns out, far too much has been written about great men and not nearly enough about morons


        Originally posted by seedyrom
        my neighbours called the cops...... not because of the sound of me working in the garage was too loud, but because i taped a cardboard box to my back, covered my self in vaseline and pretended i was a snail on their lawn

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          #34
          Originally posted by Jim View Post

          Most people will “fill up” overnight. Same as with your iPhone. You don’t charge it during the day. You get home and plug it in then.
          You must have a different iPhone from me. Sure when it was new it only needed a charge at night. Now it can't get through a day. The first one I had lasted for 5 years, the next 2.5 and this one is more or less useless now at 18 months.

          The old build a great reputation and then once popular start making them shit trick ..??

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Luke352 View Post
            The first issue is manufacturers need to agree on a common charging port and associated charge control.
            That's actually already happened.

            Tesla has their own system, but EVERYONE else has adopted international standards.

            In Australia it's the Type-2 or Combo-2 (which is the European standard), in the US it's Type-1 or Combo-1

            Click image for larger version

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            Some of the early delivered cars here had Type-1, but from this day forth, in this country, every vehicle must be Type-2, and actually most of them have the Combo-2 socket.

            So you can plug the car into pretty much any charger, anywhere, except a Tesla charger, but even then there are adaptors to go from Tesla to Type-2 or Combo-2.
            Jaguar XJR, Freelander 2 HSE, Jaguar XKR, MINI Cooper S
            Originally posted by nutttr
            People must assume you are some sort of drug dealer with all these nice cars turning up to a fibro home

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              #36
              Originally posted by Jim View Post
              Uptake of EVs here at least will need to go hand in hand with household micro generation.

              in fact, this may be supported in part by the slow adaptation of the energy regulator to allow for a decentralised grid, and by technology trials of using EV battery storage as the household off peak generation power source instead of (or as well as) a household “power wall”.
              Microgeneration is definitely required for widespread EV uptake in the absence of nuclear/hydro which a few European nations rely on. Charging these cars at work would be acceptable assuming there was a payment method, considering electricity is significantly cheaper than petrol I don't think this will be a big issue. Charging cars at work then using the additional available power to power your home at night during the demand peak in the evening would lower the cost of wholesale power overall, however there will still be a shortfall in raw power available from all generation. This was always going to be the case however in any move to an EV fleet, and needs to be tackled intelligently.

              It would also provide a nice sink for excessive power generated from household solar in places such as QLD which are struggling with over voltage scenarios in some local distribution feeders, and is definitely a better option than the current inverter de-rating methods.
              Last edited by Sathanas; 28-09-20, 04:04 PM.
              Originally posted by ahabthearab
              If you're in Amsterdam why the fuck are you even conscious and not in a drug fueled haze bent over with some crackhore hooker jamming a giant black didldo up your arse?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by TriPod1 View Post

                Yeah but I'm not sure you can both drive the car hard (taking advantage of its heady level of noiseless fun) and get any range?
                either with petrol? drive hard = reduced range. only issue it takes longer to fill it up.
                i think for most peoples commute, in traffic and not driving like a cock, EV's will be adequate.
                would i buy one now, not quite yet, not enough range for my liking / commute / usage patterns.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Luke352 View Post

                  Plus it still comes down to capital outlay as a car buyer. Until someone can go into a dealership and buy a Nissan Leaf (or equivalent) for $20-$30k new and not $45k-$55k then you are going to struggle to find mainstream buyers, yeah cost of ownership and all that but upfront cost is still a huge issue to get past.
                  i believe from listening to fully charged, that the price of battery capacity has dropped significantly to produce, but that change has never been reflected in the car pricing.

                  the fella from VW was quoted as saying electric will become the norm, as car manufacturers want to make higher profits, and electric cars allow this by significantly cheaper cost of production (ie think of the amount of components vs what is just found inside a normal ICE vehicles gearbox, let alone complete drivetrain).

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                    #39
                    All these solutions are great but do you really think countries like Australia or America are going to be able to organise ourselves enough in the next 10-15years to allow for this type of mainstream uptake. Plus lets not mention all 2nd and 3rd world countries where their electrical grids are barely holding on as it is. The ICE car isn't going anywhere for a long time, what will happen is the these states and countries mandating that all new cars need to be EV's will still be talking about how they are going to support the infrastructure required and the mandates will all get softened and pushed back a couple more years and then a couple more years and so on.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      That's true and its frustrating. Just build some nuke plants and be done with it imo
                      Originally posted by ahabthearab
                      If you're in Amsterdam why the fuck are you even conscious and not in a drug fueled haze bent over with some crackhore hooker jamming a giant black didldo up your arse?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Luke352 View Post
                        All these solutions are great but do you really think countries like Australia or America are going to be able to organise ourselves enough in the next 10-15years to allow for this type of mainstream uptake. Plus lets not mention all 2nd and 3rd world countries where their electrical grids are barely holding on as it is. The ICE car isn't going anywhere for a long time, what will happen is the these states and countries mandating that all new cars need to be EV's will still be talking about how they are going to support the infrastructure required and the mandates will all get softened and pushed back a couple more years and then a couple more years and so on.
                        I see consumer demand being ahead of the infrastructure here, sellers will sell what will sell regardless of infrastructure, and Blackout City here we come.
                        Soft roaders represent an excellent compromise between the needs of the hardcore 4x4 user and the convenience of a city hatchback. Its clear to see why they have become so popular in todays society.

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by bg0013 View Post

                          i believe from listening to fully charged, that the price of battery capacity has dropped significantly to produce, but that change has never been reflected in the car pricing.
                          .
                          Batteries need to get down to about $50-$75kwh in order to be competitive with a typical ICE car. Currently manufacturers are in the $120-$150 range depending on technology used. I believe Tesla's latest announcement will get them into $90ish range but that is theoretical not proven that they can do it for that. It's one of those things where there are certain raw materials that are currently the cost limit (cobalt) so you develop technology to not use as much cobalt which drops your costs and increases customer uptake which then puts extra demand on other raw materials making them the new cost limit. So it is a gradual thing where the supply side needs to be able to ramp up to follow the demand.

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by Sathanas View Post
                            That's true and its frustrating. Just build some nuke plants and be done with it imo
                            You know in 1st world countries Nuclear plants take at least 10years to build and the electricity produced is expensive. Given the legislative changes that would need to be made and then the ongoing "not in my neighborhood" that would go on it would be 20 years before we saw a plant online.
                            Last edited by Luke352; 28-09-20, 04:29 PM.

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                              #44
                              For sure, cheaper than fuel though I'd imagine.
                              Originally posted by ahabthearab
                              If you're in Amsterdam why the fuck are you even conscious and not in a drug fueled haze bent over with some crackhore hooker jamming a giant black didldo up your arse?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Luke352 View Post

                                You know in 1st world countries Nuclear plants take at least 10years to build and the electricity produced is expensive. Given the legislative changes that would need to be made and then the ongoing "not in my neighborhood" that would go on it would be 20 years before we saw a plant online.
                                Best time to plant a tree is 20 years ago. Second best time is now.

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