New Toyota Mark X

[Babalouie]

What about the Avalon? I don't see them making huge margins on that!

The thing that annoys me about Toyota (and Honda) is that they enter F1 and claim to have a sporting pedigree, but then serve us up with sh*t on wheels.

I reckon that ironically now that the 280ps cap has been lifted, the swing in mainstream cars in Japan is moving away from performance.

When I was in Japan last, the display of new models at the Toyota Megaweb showroom only had the Celica/MR2 as obvious performance models (and looking rather old suddenly), and the other 2 performance models, the JZX110 and the Caldina were tucked away in the corner (and unless you knew what was under the bonnet they wouldn't strike you as sporty).

Pride of place were given to the 576 new types of Tarago-type vans (!) which (as a family man) I have to admit were very cool, with walk-thru cabins, seats that slide all the way back and forth and turn around, footrests that roll out, electric curtains and sliding doors that plip open on the key fob. Most of the new generation also are very VIP-inspired, with deep airdams, huge chrome grilles and big wheels.

Coolest of all was the Porte, which was a 3dr hatch that was slightly smaller than a Corolla, but had 2 sliding doors only, a tall roof, and a floor so low (no tranny tunnel) that I could virtually stand up inside (enough rear legroom to swing out your legs too and not touch the back of the front seats).

You walked away with the feeling that performance was "done" and that MPV type practicality was where the innovation is going now in Japan. Prolly my favourite car there, the Mark II "Blit" station wagon looked very old and dowdy in the corner, and it was even in brown, which didn't help!

[edo]

edo, when I first saw the sketches I didn't really like it at all...but after 3 months of seeing them and the TV commercial. It's starting to grow on me, they aren't such a bad looking car at certain angles except perhaps the rear could have been more different. Currently looking something between a Crown and a Camry rear brake lights.

Im not unconvinced about the styling...it looks fine, nothing groundbreaking but fine. I just cant see why anyone is getting excited over it. I mean its just a pretty boring car. Sure it might be rwd...whoopee but really its got nothing on a 530 BM or an E320...both of which are nice cars but again nothing to get excited about.
If they relased it here it would be expensive & the market would see it as a maxima competitor...which is exactly where it would have to go price wise. Really, why are you all so excited about a mid size jap luxo sedan???

[Evo_Lee]

by the way where did the Avalon come from, I've never see it over here?

edo, you have PM

[edo]

Avalon is from the US...which explains a lot really.

No Pm, try email guy@edmondsmotorsport.com.au

[Evo_Lee]

email sent

[edo]

doesnt matter got it & replyed

[hakosuka]

The reason you were able to put the plural reference in there is because you've seen BOTH of them. And both of them were driving a BMW or a Benz weren't they? Toyota has less cachet than a fridge-magnet, let alone the fridge it's on ... and they'd lose a shitload of money trying to convince people otherwise (eg. as I said before, how many GS300's do you see? Same car, same build cost).

NO they were also driving Honda S2000's / Audis and Lotus and Lexus amongst other things. I don't think that most Lexus buyers would be unaware that their car is a Toyota. Yes, Toyota NOW pretty much does have no cachet, but the potential was there for them to have acquired one by now, if they had continued to offer more performance orientated variants like they did in the period from around 1985 to 1995 etc.

If the GS was a bit cheaper (maybe take of the Lexus badge) and a bit less ugly and a bit less conversative, and it sold as a V8 like elsewhere it wold sell better.

"Luxury shit" costs nothing. Power windows are cheaper to make (& lighter) than manual ones these days. Calais & Fairmont Ghias are an incredible cash-cow! Recall how much Supras were, & how much R33+ Skylines and ?X91's would have been if they'd been brought here; it's not a result of luxury gear, it's a result of having to do special small production-line runs for a tiny mostly-disinterested market.

Power windows are the least of it. I know they are cheaper and lighter. I'm talking about triple DIN sound systems, satellite navigation, computer screens and another crap that most of of would never use. They have had to do small production runs for a "mostly disinterested market" before (Corona Mark2/Cressidas/Crowns/Supras and Crowns have all sold in here in viable numbers for many years), so that wouldn't stop them, and I am sure that Toyota's superior production technology could do it more efficiently than anyone else. And as you have mentioned, there is a high cash cow element with these cars, so profit margins with these models would be a lot higher than a Corolla, even if they don't sell 400,000 of them.

In any case, I can't see why Toyota wouldn't be able to sell a 2004 equivalent of a Cressida/Mark 2/Mark 57/whatever. They sold quite a lot of the last model in Oz before they switched to a FWD Camry tizzed up with a wooden dashboard. If they priced it similar to the Maxima and made it more attractive (which shouldn't be too hard) it would do quite well.

Anyway I am banging my hea against a brick wall:

1)the new Mark x is boderline ugly
2)Toyota Australia is ruthless and the product offerings will only get more boring.
3)no matter how powerful these and other models get, we will not be able to use their potential due to us now living in a police state.

[vrmmmpshhh]

geez that cars cooling system better be top notch. I can see many of these idling for hours in traffic jams.

[fury]

ugly.. then again i think all new cars are ugly.. think i am getting old

[Captiva Fan]

In any case, I can't see why Toyota wouldn't be able to sell a 2004 equivalent of a Cressida/Mark 2/Mark 57/whatever. They sold quite a lot of the last model in Oz before they switched to a FWD Camry tizzed up with a wooden dashboard.

Relative cost. These things are closely related to the Supra; and look at what Supra prices did from Mk2 to Mk4. The reason they dropped the Cressida was 'cos it was going to be considerably more than an ES300; we're talking Audi & Saab & Volvo prices for a Toyota. Which is why we have Lexus ...

Not to forget that while the GS is unattractive, it's no worse looking than that Mark X.

[mirage]

2)Toyota Australia is ruthless and the product offerings will only get more boring.

I think you give TMCA too much credit in the scheme of things.

[hakosuka]

The reason they dropped the Cressida was 'cos it was going to be considerably more than an ES300; we're talking Audi & Saab & Volvo prices for a Toyota. Which is why we have Lexus ...

Well in that case Toyota must not be as efficient as we or they themselves would like to believe, if they could not introduce a new Cressida that was cost competitive in line with the previous model sold here which was very good value for money at the time given its level of engineering, quality, technical specifiaction and equipment. Ditto the Supra.

I wouldn't rate a Volvo or Saab over a properly developed non-appliance Japanese made Toyota (or Subaru/RWD Nissan etc) in any case. One pays almost BMW/Merc money for the Swedish stuff but I would get one of the German trio any day if I was dealing with that sort of money. It's a no brainer.

[Captiva Fan]

Absolute top-of-the-line Swedish stuff only costs the same as low-spec slugmobile models of the same size BMW or Merc, though. $100k is a jaw-dropping "OMG" price to ask for a Volvo IMHO, yet you're paying $150k for an M3 'fore you match it with German performance - and the M3 is a smaller car, you prolly need to look at a 540i to really compare.
And that's almost irrelevant anyway; we're talking about "badge cred" here, and Toyota & Nissan have none of it. As fulsik wannabe-drift-kings start getting more & more common in the new car market, I think that's going to change in the next decade or so mind you.

The Toyota cars around the era of the MA80 Cressida & ST160 Celica were extremely cheap for what they were; the yen's steady climb & the percieved need to build something better meant that the cars that followed were often considerably more exxy to build. I personally think that a few Japanese brands have since gotten over the need to match the Europeans 'cos they sell on price & reliability; eg Nissan's dropping of IRS in the Pulsar.