We allowed to dicuss the Todd Wilkes case yet?

[fro]

Fro, you can send them all my post & tell them to shut the fuck up...Id hate to think that it would happen like that. Im a firm believer that in life you make your choices & you need to deal with the consequences of those choices...I think all my relatives & friends would know what I wanted.

I appreciate the sentiment, and I like to think that I'm of a very similar mindset...

But does that mean that I shouldn't have to do the "risk management", or that I can slack off when I'm organising events?

If its all the same, I'd rather try and keep everyone that comes to an event I'm involved with alive as a top priority.

[edo]

Angus, I'll go to the drag strip & run as fast as I can first up. But I'll be damn sure that there will be a 454 HQ or similar that runs similar times that stops first. Given he probably has standard brakes & mine are pretty bloody big then thats a risk I'll take.

If they build a wall 100m after the end of the 400m then I reckon Id hit the picks at around oh 250m...this is my point...at 300kmh a concrete wall is rishing up pretty quick...I think Id have the smarts to blow the time/top speed run but survive to scream & yell at the wall builders.

My first couple of laps at QR were slow...I always sight a new track first. Plus if its a sprint (or a state/national race) meet your first lap (out lap) doesnt count anyway so I generally use that to warm tyres/brakes & look for possible hazzards

[old baggins]

In our series it's only the WRX's who try to set FTD on the first lap and remodel their cars 100 metres after going through the timing beacon.

Gee Greg, why don't you get out a bigger brush to tarnish every WRX driver.

[Brenton_s15]

Gee Greg, why don't you get out a bigger brush to tarnish every WRX driver.

I don't think he needs it Justin. The one he's currently using seems to be working pretty well :p

[old baggins]

bah fuck off. :D

[floody]

Well, I think there has to be a big element of blame put on the organisers for letting them at it unsighted. However...
Every sport I've had anything to do with, motocross, downhill mountainbiking, even sprints etc, if something is bloody stupid,ridiculously dangerous, and obviously much much more unsafe than normal risks, then the competitors DON'T BLOODY DO IT. The event is boycotted or whatever until it is fixed or not.
The person who points themselves down the road that has the concrete wall, then opens the taps as far as they go, is where the fault largely lies. Sure the officials have a part duty in protecting people from themselves, but the competitor himself has a big onus of self protection in my opinion.

[CT]

We all sign the disclaimer, saying that "motorsport is dangerous" in big letters. We all (should) know that there's a chance that everytime we get into a competiton vehicle that we won't get back out. The existance of helmets, roll-cages, harnesses, scrutineering, fire-extinguishers, safety marshalls re-inforces the obvious and indisputable fact that motorsport is dangerous.

We all then drive accordingly, and in vehicles that we feel give us the right thrill to safety ratio.

IF after all of this, it turns to shit, then a huge burden of responsibility must lie with the competitor, no matter how unfortunate the outcome.
As one of my work-mates said "You buy the ticket, you take the ride"...

Hi Spac - I agree to a point with your sentiments but we certainly sign these forms in good faith. I certainly don't chat to the Clerk of Course about the condition of the gravel traps before a race - I expect him to have done his job and ensured that they are in the correct condition to slow me should I need it. I believe this is the difference in these cases.

I certainly agree that we know it's an inherently dangerous sport and I don't know if it would be so addictive if it wasn't. It's also well and good to say that if a competitor believes it dangerous, don't compete - but has anyone pulled out of an event that they suspect might me a little more risky and been the only one to do so? The pressure of competition points, sponsors and event organisers generally overrides this and you do the old, "she'll be right mate, I'll just take it easy" but sometimes it just isn't. That's when that good faith is broken.

[Scotty]

I'm sure most of use here have been to the drags before and I'm sure none of us have walked to the end for a look, the main reason being is that usually there is a faster car out there than yours and if it can stop in time, than you probably can as well. I think an equal amount of blame can be shead which ever way, but at the end of the day what has happen has happened, people make mistakes and other people learn from these mistakes

[sejanus]

I really disagree highly with the attitudes of a few people in this thread who seem pretty keen to shrug off the incident as Todd's fault because he was the bloke driving.

On the face of it, this would seem a pretty reasonable conclusion, IF IT WAS A STREET RACE!!!!!

This wasn't, this was an organised event sanctioned by CAMS and you should be safe to assume that some smart bloke from CAMS sat down and ran the numbers on how long it would take to brake from a high speed, then add a shitload of distance on top of that. And if for some bizarre reason you need to run the event at a concrete wall (that in itself is so dense it defies belief - entertainment before safety hey!) - for christs sake put some fucking tyres in the way.

In addition, lets forget about todds horsepower advantage for a moment. lets take a normal turbo car with the usual bolt on mods, reasonably quick car isn't it? It can run a low 13 / high 12 and it participates in this run. Say the brakes have a problem - the bloke is stuffed! He's going to a concrete wall and is going to die. Now you can say about this hypothetical owner with the turbo car "oh it's his fault - he was driving" - but bullshit to that ;

THE ORGANISERS AND CAMS HAVE A DUTY OF CARE TO MAKE THE EVENT CATER FOR PROBLEMS.

Where was the catering to the hypothetical problem of a car having issues stopping. It sounds like the dense idiots didn't even consider it.

Now back to Todd. The organisers plainly knew this car was going to be bloody fast - the fact they did not cater for this IN ANY WAY in my eyes is manslaughter, absolute gross negligence in the extreme.

I also seem to remember john or tracy telling me that todd had fitted some very serious brakes to the car before the event - in my eyes you can't blame todd for this with something as simple as "he was driving".

What Rolin7 said about one of the cabin/cams guys saying about braking "it'll be a little hairy" is really horrifying - he would have been talking about powerful cars sure, I assume 350-600hp at the absolute max. Let alone 1300-1500 or however much todd was running on that day.

[Scotty]

I don't think anyone here is blaming Todd for what happened, that would be like saying it was his fault for have so much power and having such an amazing car, thats just silly. What people are saying is Todd made a conscience to get in the car and drive at that speed towards the wall. Yes it was a bad decision by CAMS to reverse the track at the last min, but they didn't make him drive at the wall at that speed, he did that, hence I don't feel this is manslaughter. Some bad decisions were made and the end result was a very sad loss (I still remember where I was when I heard the news, he was the front runner in this area). Seems some people on here just want to see someones head on chopping block over this, you have to remember this won't bring Todd back.

[tinkers]

Well said sejanus.

I wasnt going to post in here mainly because I can't believe people still think they know everything.

There has been that many stories/rumours/inuendos that most wouldnt know what is actual fact and what is not.

The media only get a small amount of info then dream up the rest to make readers buy the paper/watch the tv all in the event of making money. They dont give a damn if it is the truth or not! It is this bullshit that most people seem to think is what happened.

There is so many holes in what REALLY happened and WHAT Todd was told before his turn.

For the record, Todd was invited to compete at the event so yes the organisers knew full well what the car was capable of.

And yes heads should fucking roll!!!!

/gets off soap box

[paul05]

who built the car 'who turned the key and who put their foot on the loud pedal 'who's to blame.

[Tripper]

every one has a level of blame in this event, as to how much that is what we should be talking about.

we all have done things that risked our saftey

[Fatboy]

who built the car 'who turned the key and who put their foot on the loud pedal 'who's to blame.

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but after the post i quoted i can't help myself - Mate, that is an ignorant and ill informed statement at best. A guy died because of the stupidity of officials at the event, end of story. Yes, Todd has some degree of responsibility as the driver, and yes no-one held a gun to his head to make him compete. But like any other normal person he would have believed it was as safe an environment as possible. It clearly wasn't. Todd's death was a tragic accident. But the fact it could so easily have been avoided with the use of some commonsense is why i honestly believe someone needs a serious kick in the arse...

I am unaware whether the story that the organisers fled overseas the day after the event is true. But if it is, what does that tell you ??

R.I.P Todd

[paul05]

i stand by what i said'no one held a gun to his head and said'you must drive that 1200 hp car the wrong way on a drag strip at a dead end.common sense.